I never said these were my practices, did i? Youre a tool. And instead of drinking, they start working out, eating healthy, and began a full healthy lifestyle using steroids in moderation, yes i would actually say that's healthier for you. And if you didn't read that correctly, i said AND THEN they stopped drinking and started working out and taking steroids.

Stop arguing points, it's been proven by myself. You can say what you want. I'm not just throwing numbers around. I've seen people eat exactly the same, with the same routine, gain 10-20lbs on steroids. Steroids are help. When you're not on steroids, the calories can simlpy not be used. Even with the same routine. So yes, you do not need as many calories to gain weight. I'm not saying, what you should or should not do, or 'for best results'.

And yes, sorry, it's 10-12 weeks.

Really, are you actually saying that? lol genetics play the biggest role in how you look buddy.

What are you trying to argue, this is getting a bit off the topic of, needing less calories. this makes me think that you are arguing for the sake of arguing

Anyway, im not here to argue about this. I was simply saying, I am pro steroids when used in moderation. Considering how many people i've seen using them compared to peoples lifestyles not using them. I'd rather someone do that, if it were up to me. You can always be judgemental and say, you should be doing it this way and that way. But not everyone does everything correctly, but if it's better than the alternative, good for them. That's why i said, then it's a matter of losing the crutch. What you for whatever reason accused me of doing.

I don't even use them so you look like an idiot for assuming. I did 4 years ago.

No, I don't need to do steroids. lol

So both of you are telling me a hard gainer who can't gain weight with 4000 calories can't gain on steroids eating 4000 calories. LOL That's funny

Starting to look like you're trying to battle to see who knows more about steroids. Doesn't change the fact of the original argument.

I hate steroids more than life itself. Every time I get perscribed predazone I cry. They do evil things to the body and make me nausiated.

They can gain weight..but shooting yourself with a crapload of roids isn't going to net you any good wight. You will gain 10-25 lbs...of water weight mostly. You will just bloat the fuck up. This does very bad things to your tendons, bones and muscles. So healthy it is not.

Not only that but if your blood levels aren't checked you could be fucking up a lot of other things that you just don't realize.

Oh and yes steroids do help metabolize proteins and carbs better...or really more efficient But not to the point to make you super human that you can eat less.

Fair enough, we'll leave it at that. Agree to disagree. lol i'm not going to go into posting the before and after pictures of friends of mine who didn't change a thing about their diet. I can assure you, it's not water weight. And I disagree about it being very unhealthy not to up your calories if you're taking in enough. You don't metabolize everything. Hard gainers especially have a higher percentage of calories they dont metabolize and when you're taking test. it assures that those calories are metabolized so you don't have to eat as much to gain a lb

I don't have an issue with steroid use or abuse for that matter. I'm all for letting people do whatever they want to themselves, even if it means they end up dead. If someone wants to drink themselves to death, let them. I'm against giving people that destroy their bodies any type of free government-sponsored medical aid though. If someone smokes and gets some type of cancer, I would say let them rot. Same goes for people who drink, abuse steroids, etc.

Unless you are being monitored by a physician and getting top quality, clean steroids, there is no question that you're putting yourself at risk by taking them. If you take steroids you got from some guy at the gym, you're an idiot and deserve to die from the potential results.

As for me, I won't be taking steroids any time soon. I lift weights 4 days a week, don't drink very often, don't smoke and eat right 90% of the time. The only supplement I take is protein powder. I don't believe steroids are needed to sustain a decent physique until you're older (I'm currently 24). This, of course, is for recreational lifters.

Pro bodybuilders, competitive olympic lifters, competitive powerlifters, etc. all tend to take steroids if they want to compete at the highest level. It's obviously not possible to compete with someone with prime genetics on steroids as a natural lifter, even if you have the exact same genetics.

Steroids are a huge crutch for athletes, especially strength athletes and bodybuilders. However, I don't have any aspirations to be a professional athlete. I simply like to lift weights to relieve stress and look better. I think up to a certain age this is easily possible without steroids.

I would simply like to leave the choice up the individual when it comes to anything that doesn't harm anyone else. If you want to smoke, go for it but don't do it in my face. If you want to drink, go for it but don't go driving and running people over afterwards. If you want to take steroids, go for it but don't expect medical attention when you take too much and your kidneys and liver are damaged or you have high blood pressure. Why should anyone tell you what to do? You have to make a decision for yourself about how you want to live. I don't see us stopping obese people from going to McDonald's multiple times daily so they can eat themselves to death.

I've never used it and I am not going to :glugglug

personal use and possession should be legal, it is a personal choice :2 cents:

Seriously, till you said you were 24, I mentally had your age much higher. Excellent post.

Youre the funny one who is uneducated. its calories in calories out. if your body is in a state of anabolism and your intaking the same amount of cals as you would when off a cycle you will not gain a damn thing. You will be able to spare muscle wasting on a cut, however thats the only instance where lowered cals on juice would be beneficial. im not arguing for the sake of arguing. I was 125 pounds!!!!!!! hows that for genetics man...u wanna see what i frigin looked like before...it was boredline ethiopian. so what happens to food that hard gainiers are intaking that doesnt get "metabolized" as you say...u just pass it? Please man your making yourself sound dumber and dumber go post this on T-nation or any other bodybuilding/weight lifting forum and youd get laughed at and banned in a heart beat. so lets see the pics man...u clearly arent confident enough in yourself or your body. You also didnt answer any of my questions. What compounds you took, what pct was taken. What are your stats, height, weight, BF? Time lifting?

anabolic steroids improve protein metabolism and nitrogen retention so that protein is more efficiently used in muscle rebuilding compared to when off steroids

I tried. lol

and ive said that before, it wont help u gain weight if your not gaining weight naturally tho...not with ZERO change in diet...shit if u went up 10-15 pounds and it was MUSCLE as he says youd need to intake more cals just for baseline. each cycle in order to gain your supposed to up the cal 200 each week depending on your fat/muscle gain and adjust accordingly.

Arguing about it isn't going to go anywhere. You think it takes more calories to gain on steroids. lol we'll leave it at that.

Comparing bodies isn't going to change prove anything in relation to that. lol

http://www.steroidology.com/forum/bo...ie-intake.html
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=394345
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/an...es-308345.html

2 seconds search on google contradicts everything u previously said on 3 different forums

and another with plenty of references...read first paragraph
http://www.anabolicsmall.com/roidb11b.htm

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=167282

now go tell someone with 5k posts and a mod on a steroid board they are wrong...

I get enough steroids, GH, rBGH, and hormone residues from the Beef, Milk, Chicken that I eat. No need to add more. :1orglaugh

My next door neighbor is taking Steroids to get a better bulid. He has changed big time since he started them. He is beat his wife up and broke her jaw. He was nice before he started to take them.

Looks like he finally grew some balls though! :winkwink:


jk :error

Roid rage is a great excuse to do whatever you wanted to do before...

she didnt make him a sammich, first mistake

http://www.halolz.com/wp-content/upl...t-up-bitch.jpg

:1orglaugh

Robbie... what was your experience with the Deca Durabolin? I'm assuming you weren't hitting the gym, but did you get bigger without working out? How much weight did you gain?

hopefully he will go into a roid rage when you are around and choke you out... :thumbsup

deca is awesome for injury recovery because of the amount of water retention and fluid to your joints.

but you're not going to gain muscle mass without physical activity. if you could, every athlete in the world would be taking steroids after any kind of knee surgery, shoulder surgery etc. to prevent muscle atrophy.

a good friend of mine that i worked out with everyday for several years tore his mcl right in front of me. he was using deca/sustanon at the time and just kept taking the deca for another 6 weeks and his knee healed twice as fast as every specialist said it would

Exactly, I was in a hard neck cast and both my arms were in full length arm casts. So I was losing muscle from atrophy for a month (part of it in ICU unconscious) The Deca simply kept me from losing even more than I would have

As far as Deca goes for body building it has it's ups and downs. I've often heard of guys who don't stack it getting "Deca dick" which ain't good. lol

But since most guys stack everything with lots of testosterone that's not generally a problem.

Just remember to NEVER take an oral steroid. Nobody really does these days because of liver damage. But liver damage doesn't happen with intramuscular injections.

I don't really mess with anabolics much. But I do inject testosterone. And as long as you bust your ass in the gym and try not to be a pig at the dinner table you will see great results.

I'm 47 years old so I have no need to cycle off anymore of test. It's just normal hormone therapy for a guy my age. And because I work hard in the gym and eat somewhat healthy (I don't get crazy with diet...I'll eat me some McDonalds or a pizza anytime I want) I'm stronger, able to out run, out fuck, and out party just about any guy I meet of any age. Simply from keeping my test levels at roughly the same place they were naturally when I was 18. Which means using about 400 ml of test a week...which is about the amount that a Mr. Olympia would use twice a day. lol

It's all about quality of life. I like feeling good and looking as good as I can. I don't want to just exist. I want to enjoy life. :)

Yes those are good 'rules of thumb'. If you are doing something and it's working. Add 500 calories if you start a cycle. But for somebody who can't gain, 500 calories above what they are eating to maintain doesn't automatically mean they can gain muscle at the gym bud. lol its different for everybody.

Those guys eating 6000 calories to gain, it doesn't take 5500 to maintain. LOL if you think so, that's ridiculous.

It's 500 from maintenance level! You are right! My maintenance level is 2500, but if im going to try to add on some pounds at the gym, 3000 isn't going to do it for me. Genetics try to keep me around my typical body weight. you have to shock your body into growing.

OK so your just so you know your statement is, you maintain at 2500 but anything over that up to 3000 you dont? well then wouldnt 3000 be your maintenance? I understand peoples bodies are different but what your saying is just plain wrong and doesnt make sense. how does one maintain at 2500, yet not gain at 3000? if your not gaining your not eating enough...cant put it any simpler than its been put. 6k cals to maintain while being a BBer is nothing man, i can easily put away 4k cals a day with ease. you just have a terrible lifters mentality and take short cuts. ANSWER THESE QUESTIONS
1. How long have you been training
2. what was your cycle, duration, pct
3. Height, weight, approx bf
4. I want you to POST your daily diet
5. Pictures...i dont care about genetics this genetics that, i want to see what you look like,...what couldnt u do in 6 months to a year?
6. Admit you took steroids because you were impatient for gains. you probably started with roids, and now realize how much hard work and dedication you really need, which is why your not "gaining" at 3000 cals...maybe its just not as FAST as youd like since you juiced too early
I know what im talking about I'm practically a personal trainer. you just so happen to be the only one in lifting history or rather the history of the world who doesnt gain weight over their maintenance...cals in cals out. and this SHOCK you speak of, shocking the body as you put it, is done with training not with eating. When your muscles demand more your body demands more food.

Why would you ask me those questions, what does being impatient have anything to do with what im trying to tell you here? Honestly? What are you looking for? lol

I can gain 20lb of muscle and HAVE, eating less calories than it took while off of steroids. End of conversation bud. Nothing else matters here, that's the only point in arguing. There's no way to prove either way, so im not going to waste my time on GFY arguing this simple fact. lol

Now you're mixing up cortical steroids like Prednisone with anabolic steroids like Testosterone.

I assue you that you don't get an anabolic steroid for Asthma and cortical steroids don't promote growth, they can actually hinder in repair.

I'm fairly certain that liver damage can still happen with intramuscular injections. Remember, the Liver holds up to about 13% of all the blood in the body at one time. One of it's purposes is to clean drugs and what not out of the system. Intramuscular drugs still end up in the blood stream, and thus by definition in the liver.

The danger, as far as I understand it, with oral steroids is the the liver has to process the drug twice where as only one time with IM.

I think you can do more damage to your liver with a night of binge drinking than a once a week intramuscular injection of testosterone. Matter of fact, I've had full blood work done and a couple of multi-million dollar insurance policies that required complete physicals...and no liver damage of any sort was detected. :)

However, if you take steroids orally you WILL destroy your liver faster than an alcoholic. A buddy of mine was taking some Anavar (one of the least liver toxic oral steroids) and he was getting his insurance policies at the same time as I am. They detected liver damage...and he had only been taking the Anavar for a couple of weeks! He stopped taking that and stopped being a pussy scared of needles, and had bloodwork done again for the policy a month later and passed.

Correct. It is 'more clean' I guess you can put it.

Out west it is actually a lot easier to get this prescribed to you (if thats how you do it haha) I know when I was living in AZ there were small clinics for just this. Here in Boston it's not so easy. They don't even believe that they help you only that they hurt you.

Where do you get the test prescription? Do I just talk to my doctor about it? I've tried Dianabol (oral) and it didn't really do shit for me. Well, it did something... it made me incredibly depressed... my business dropped bigtime because I wasn't working. A couple weeks after stopping the Dianabol, I was fine.

You can get testosterone and HGH prescribed anywhere in this country with relative ease. That's why they made it a controlled substance only. So doctors and drug companies can over charge the fuck out of you.

For you younger guys that don't remember just a few years ago...steroids were 100% legal. The govt. once again stepped in to make decisions for adults in our "Free" country. Of course you can just drive down to Mexico and buy anything you want over the counter. lol

Read:
"In 1988 trafficking in steroids became illegal, and in 1990, against the advice of the American Medical Association, the Drug Enforcement Agency, the Department of Health and Human Services and the Food and Drug Administration, steroids were made into a Schedule III controlled substance."

A general practitioner will be of little help. They will test your blood, tell you your test levels are either "acceptable" or "low" and then prescribe you some Androgel cream to rub on. Go to a doctor who specializes in HRT (hormone replacement therapy)

Or save yourself thousands of dollars and do tons of research and buy it blackmarket. Same shit, same companies. It's legal in almost every country in the world over the counter...except the good old land of the free of course...the govt. can't let us make decisions for ourselves you know. lol

i believe the "twice" part is only true for 17 alkaloid compounds which some orals are (anadrol, dbol, winstrol tablets etc) and where liver toxicity is or can be a concern.

i'm pretty sure injectables don't tax the liver at all... i mean definitely not in the same way or even close. your liver processes testosterone for example as it is and is capable of processing large quantities. i would imagine the dose would have to be very high for it to have any negative impact at all unless it was someone who was super deficient and sensitive to adrogens already. injectables are typically absorbed into the blood very slowly anyway whereas orals (and more dangerous orals) are digested, broken down and hit the liver right away.