No offense bud, but I'll listen to the processors who see the back end of this industry. The TRUTH of sales, whales, charge backs, declines, and other shit. I'll bank on their thoughts, predictions, and conclusions other than relying on message board theory.

Again, no offense meant to you personally. Simply saying I will rely on the facts, not theory debate.

What a tasty proposition.

It will send a ripple effect through da biz.

Legal cross sales are like upsales....tried and true marketing. Legal and will continue. Illegal cross sales are hurting the business and no one should promote them. Short term gain for long term pain.

No shit? Crazy.

Good ones can help you with whatever you need, eg: LeRoy from DTI Cash in my sig, he is awesome. Totally goes the extra mile.

Hell dude, a good rep will just call you up and bounce ideas around if you ask them to. Say you don't have any business partners, enter the good affiliate rep and you have a second opinion on whatever. Also it is important that they not steal your ideas but perhaps give you some or brainstorm WITH you.

:2 cents:

I think actually, a lot of smaller operations will survive in this current market. Boutique sites with a few affiliates and very little overhead could be the future.

I completely agree.

My friends, and I have been saying this for about 18-24 months now. The way the industry is moving. It will become survival of the smallest. Those who can control their costs, and have little overhead, and can quickly change with the trends, and have some money in the bank.

Prime example are clip store owners.

While you see a lot of boo-fucking-hooing on the industry boards. I talk to a number of clip store owners who sales are the same, or better than before. They are almost unaffected. They are in their niches, and their sales continue, they have next to no overhead costs and laughing all the way to the bank.

I think the days of the hundreds of monoliths will have a hard time surviving. But, I do think that Brazzzers will be the dominant online adult company for content and traffic within 12 months.

They have already taken over a large chunk of the traffic. They are now investing a lot of money into their own productions and content. I think they will simply be able to outspend everyone within a year. No one will be able to keep up.

:2 cents:

If Brazzers wants to run it all, they need to branch out and get content from A VARIETY of legit independent producers IMO. Otherwise the content is all good but often appears just too similar, like a BRAND.

Nothing wrong with that but it is often easy enough to spot that surfers identify, use, then get bored with. Thereby leaving market share for independents or other brands like Playboy or whomever.

They moved productions from L.A. to Vegas, and now to south Florida. So I am thinking they will have that covered in variety. Or will have it soon enough at the rate they are going. Different models, and producers for different areas of the country.

Plus xxxjay said they are also starting their tube in niche markets. So my guess is they will start investing in the production of that shit as well.

Yeah, just saying if they want to cover all the bases grab some even myspace style or self shot any niches that have solid 2257.

I have been running mom and pop sites since the nineties and they are very consistent earners. Its not gross income that counts in business. Its not traffic volume. Its not even coversion ratios. Its not how pretty the talent is or how pretty your sites look. Its your current bank balance and investment portfolio that counts.
Brazzers is smart if they are now doing their own content, because ultimately content is king, no matter what anyone says. Its an old debate, but it is playing itself out for real at the moment.

You said that shit well, and summed it up nicely. Fucking excellent! :thumbsup

I have been saying that same shit when people bust my balls about my own sites and content. How it is not as pretty as the BROS the girls are plain Jane's. Not everyone wants Euro chicks, or glam.

Content has always been king and traffic the queen. Only retards have thought otherwise.

All the traffic in the world does not mean shit if you have nothing quality to sell them.

Bravo my friend. Simply bravo.

We are not in the pretty business. We are in the sex business.

Or more accurately, the SALES business.

As I've said before in other threads. Most of us are not paid in e-penis Alexa ranking. We are paid on the SALES of whatever we are peddling.... porn.

I make good money in this industry. But I am a businessman. I am not a photographer. I am not interested in being a top notch photographer, nor branding out beyond my skill set and interest into other niches.

I could care less about my status on some message board with a bunch of unknowns, or what the general industry thinks of my sites and content. It sells to my customer base, and they keep on buying and keeping me in business. My production costs are recouped in 30-45 days. Life is good.

I am in this business to MAKE MONEY.

Ego, knowing everything, being a BRO.... none of that shit pays my bills. I do not care about it either nor claim to be those things. I am a small niche player, and production company who listens, and reads, and pays attention. I am simply a business man who makes a good living doing what I love in my own specialized hobbies and passions. It is fun with a pay check for me.

I like Dean Capture's work, but that isn't what everyone jerks off to. I personally think cams like Video Secrets are cool, we know they are not photoshopped and they sell.

Different strokes...

But then again, all the quality content in the world would be nothing if you don't have the audience to showcase it to

Then again we are on the traffic side ;)))

King and queen my dear. :winkwink:

Online's no different then the real world. If you have your donut shop on the busiest road in the city, yet no one wants your donuts. It doesn't mean shit.

Matching content to traffic is what this ultimately boils down to. There are many that are good at producing content. There are many that are good at generating traffic. But there are very few who are good at doing both.

So true BROtha....

Bingo :thumbsup

Brazzers comes to mind though ;)))

100 Good Business Discussions

:thumbsup

Really? A processor told you that without cross sales 75% of adult companies will go out of business? And this is what you call a "fact"?

Nice discussion you have going here :eek7

If you are going to cite me, cite me correctly. Thanks.

They claimed that their projection was 50-75% of big programs would go under without cross sales, and that cross sales are keeping them afloat.

Also, since they actually see the back end of the business with transactions, sales, declines, and what not. I will take their word for it over a message board 'opinion' any day of the week, and twice on Sunday.

Especially since they are in a position to see the back end of multiple programs unlike a single person/program and their opinion.

:2 cents:

High $ or per trial PPS generally do seem to entail cross-sales.

Yes indeed.

From what im told it is virtually impossible for PPS programs to operate without cross and upsells think about it....... Getting paid $50 on a $1 transaction the math just doesnt add up but everyone wants $1 trials and highest payouts but at the same time a lot of people are bitching about cross and upsells... It is quite ironic actually.

In terms of affiliate traffics worth i think it should be paid for one a sliding scale, if you send 1-10 signups you make 40%, if you send 11-20 you make 50% if you send 21-30 you make 60% etc.

Starting off at a minimum payout level of at least 50% for unproven affiliates makes no sense to me at all (i havent been doing this that long though).

I have been checking through some of our ccbill stats for the past few weeks on Condom Cash and it appears that those affiliates sending the most sales only make up about 15% of our entire affiliate base and they also need the less amount of help and support but the affiliates sending 1 or 2 sales a week or month constantly want more content, new banners, more fhgs and other things.

One other thing that i dont quite understand about the porn business is that there is no contractual obligation for an affiliate to keep sending traffic so with that in mind they could rape a program of all their content and promo tools diluting their effectiveness for other affiliates then once they stop working, move on to another program and do the same thing.

With a sliding scale based pay scale there may actually end up being some kind of loyalty to a program for an affiliate i know in ccbill if you send us more sales you get paid more automatically because that is how it has been setup.

...and that's exactly what's happened over the years. It boggles my mind, the sponsors who say "go in our members area and just grab whatever you want for promotion." Allow that, and you know what they're going to grab.

So why hasnt this been put a stop to? I know we do not have the license to allow the content we have in our members area to be given to affiliates to use so there must be other programs that are not allowed to do that either or do programs really not care so long as they make money to cover the costs of a sites development?

If they own the content, they're allowed to do it. Everything on DTBabes was shot by me, it's exclusive, I own it. I could tell affiliates to go in and take whatever they wanted. I could also just go put it all up on pornbb etc., the usual result of that tactic.

You think your affiliates are the ones giving your shit away on pirate sites?

By chance, do you look over your shoulder a lot when you walk around town?

:2 cents:

This has always been the case.

Affiliates who make money make their own tools, HG's, banners, and shit. They take up the least amount of your time, and make you the most money.

On the flip side. No matter what program you talk to, it is almost always 10% of your affiliates make you 90% of the revenue. The rest are dead weight. Sucking up resources, and demanding more time and attention because they can't sell shit.

This is actually a really informative thread.

So based on what has been posted so far do you think an invite only affiliate program would work well? The reason i ask is that we are currently working on such a program and will only be inviting our top 50 affiliates from Condom Cash to join it, after that is anyone wants to join they are going to have to proove that they can make sales.

I thought this was an interesting way of kulling the herd when it came to over exposure of sites and content and it sounds like based on the posting in here that it would be a good way to curb some of the things that take up a lot of program owners time.

Yes.

Affiliates prove their worth, or they are not an affiliate of yours.

This is how it should have always been. You show me something, and THEN you can be an affiliate for your program, get access to members areas, free content, hosting, support, etc..

It is nice to see this industry finally raising the bar to entry.

:2 cents:

I find this attitude rather hilarious.

Notwithstanding the counterarguments in this thread, programs need affiliate traffic rather worse than affiliates need any one particular program. I've got a dozen programs I could be promoting for every one that I actually am promoting. Make me jump through too many hoops -- well, any hoops actually -- and I'll just promote somebody who is less of a hassle to deal with.

Folks who try to go exclusive with their affiliate programs will just lose the traffic and sales to other programs. There's probably an exception to this rule for the top 5% of programs -- the guys everybody with a brain wants to be promoting -- but the vast majority of programs aren't that distinguished. Most are pushing their luck when they ask a non-standard question on their affiliate sign-up form.

Is this the tail wagging the dog?

Nah, it's a toots who thinks he can promote any content with his traffic and be a success.

:2 cents:

I never look over my shoulder. I know, though, that when an affiliate program gives open affiliate access to its members areas, the word does get around. It's not real affiliates who give content away. It's the ones who sign up as affiliates with no intention of ever promoting the site. :winkwink:

Have you ever hung out for any period of time on a free porn surfer forum? How do you think the biggest contributors get all the wonderful porn they provide for free.

They sign up as an affiliate and then post it all over the forum(s). This is, and has been, common practice for years. There was every some rough guide on how to get access I remember seeing 2 years ago.

Claim to be an affiliate. Get password. Download everything. Viola.