Originally Posted by robwod (Post 16322827)

This is somewhat lengthy, but important to detail it for complete understanding. I apologize for the length.

Recently I have had the experience with one sponsor where I noticed little tiny commissions showing up for sales. Wondering wtf was going on... as I don't use trials. I hate trials. I use revshare. So, why then would I start seeing all these little sales for a lousy $1.23?

I looked at my NATS links and saw my code there, just fine. And that's when I noticed the exit code for some company named Intellichat.... who inserts a DIFFERENT NATS code than the one I referred the surfer with.

Naturally my reaction was wtf is going on with my revshare links? Are my NATS codes/cookies getting circumvented by this new code from Intellichat? (Still awaiting answers on this).

A little discussion between myself and the sponsor and it apparently works like this:

Under normal situations, an affiliate refers a surfer and the surfer is cookied and if he joins you are credited with the sale. If he leaves and comes back later, you are credited with the sale for the FULL sale amount commission. This is a "bookmark sale" and is given to you at full commission on the option they joined with. Bookmark sales are the bulk of my sales.

With this Intellichat Interception routine, it seems to work like this:

An affiliate refers a surfer and the surfer is cookied, and then decides to leave before buying, an Intellichat window (a third party!) pops up with a live sales person and convinces the person to stay. In the case of my sponsor in question, this was a 3 day trial of which I was credited a mere $1.23 (whooppee)

Now, here's the rub for me. I do not use trial links, as mentioned. Yet a trial link was inserted in my links via this Intellichat Link Interecption. This site in question does not have sufficient content or video as it is fairly new. As such, you can view this site in its entirely in an afternoon, much less 3 days. A 3 day trial is not worth it to affiliates, it's just that simple.

Based on my own stats, I avg across all of my nats sites, 75% of my sales coming from bookmarks/cookies.

With this Intellichat program intercepting this, allegedly, I am effectively having my chance to make those FULL bookmarked sales taken away from me in lieu of those ridiculous $1.23 commissions since my bookmark cookie is no longer relevant.

I should mention, I am told if the converted person does rebill, I get a normal rebill commission, but that still doesn't erase the fact my ability to convert my own bookmarked traffic was effectively taken from me.

From where I sit, I am effectively having my opportunity to convert my own bookmarked cookie traffic with my own referred cookies, at full price, circumvented by a program that does absolutely nothing to benefit me, except scoop the sale before I have a chance for my bookmark cookie to convert later -- at MORE money. To me, this is 100% unacceptable to insert on affiliate links.

Ultimately in this fiasco, I have earned less money as a result of this intellichat experiment with this particular sponsor and have told them so.

So, my question is this... I would like to know which sponsors are also using Intellichat Exits on their affiliate link join pages.

Disclaimer: I am hardly saying Intellichat is scamming my sales is doing anything wrong. In fact I could see their service as an enormous tool for use on TYPE-IN traffic. But implemented how it was on this particular sponsor with affiliate links using trials, it was a dismal disaster and completely unacceptable.

Originally Posted by intellichat (Post 16325053)

The integration allows the site owner to credit the original affiliate whilst paying ourselves (without paying double for the join).

Originally Posted by Mutt (Post 16325582)

so let's say for example that a surfer hits the back button on a revshare site, intellichat agent window pops up, if the surfer joins the site at some discounted price or a trial, Intellichat and the affiliate who sent the surfer split the revshare 50/50?

why can't programs just lease Intellichat and absorb that as a cost of running a program, i can see why an affiliate wouldn't be happy to be sharing his commission with a third party like Intellichat.

lots of surfers hit the back button, go back to the tour, or leave the site entirely and think about it and decide to join the site later. so the thread starter does have a point, i don't know the numbers of how many surfers do this and neither do any of the processors or programs. Intellichat definitely can interfere with sales. You say that site owners do have a lot of control how/when Intellichat is invoked.

Originally Posted by TheDoc (Post 16323123)

How do you know they are bookmarked / cookied sales?

Not even the Admin of NATS can tell that.

Just because NATS referral report says that, doesn't mean that's what they are. Actually, it doesn't mean that at all.

Originally Posted by intellichat (Post 16325635)

As a standard we ask for 50% of the affiliate payout, this way the original affiliate can still be credited on our saved sale and earning money from traffic that was leaving the site.

Originally Posted by robwod (Post 16325667)

You say that as if you believe a surfer never comes comes back to buy later -- and at FULL commission to the affiliate.

Originally Posted by brand0n (Post 16325489)

is intellichat live people?

and thedoc what program is yours again?

Originally Posted by cherrylula (Post 16325643)

Sounds like NATS needs to fix that, no? Incorrect reporting?

Originally Posted by robwod (Post 16325694)

To Intellichat... let me ask you this. After you popup and your NATS link supersedes the original referring affiliates, if the surfers says no to you and leaves, whose cookie does he leave with?

That is, if after talking to your bot he says no and leaves, does he leave the site with the original referring affiliate's NATS info, or one from your own NATS referral?

Looking at my links when it happened, my link was one NATS code, and the Intellichat was an entirely different NATS code. So, whose NATS link / referral info do they ultimately leave with, and what happens if they come back later and join. Does the affiliate still get full credit for the sale?

Originally Posted by Twistys Tim (Post 16325789)

It is my understanding that a 'bookmark' sale in NATS is a sale that has originated without a referring url. In most cases, this is where an affiliate has referred a surfer, who then bookmarks the tour with the affiliates ref code in the url. If at any point in the future (days, months, years later) that surfer then joins the site via that bookmarked url then the affiliate gets credit.

Originally Posted by intellichat (Post 16325635)

I would like to stress that we have a fix for the back button issue that has been mention a number of times in this thread. We can have it active or disabled it's down to the site owner. (There are very few companies which have the back button feature enabled.)

Originally Posted by TheDoc (Post 16325837)

Thing is, he said 75% of the sales came from bookmarks. It's impossible for 75% of your sales to come from real bookmarks.

Originally Posted by DonovanTrent (Post 16324198)

If the "pop on back" issue is what I described in my post above, then it's still a problem with Intellichat. I checked a few sites that I know use it right before I made the post, just to make sure it was still there.

Originally Posted by Imortyl Pussycat (Post 16325864)

No program owner with half a brain would allow this :2 cents:

Originally Posted by robwod (Post 16325863)

I was referring to the "bookmark" heading in NATS stats, which I realize is not accurately named. I assumed I did not need to clarify this for anyone familiar with NATS. However, this metric does include cookied surfers with no referrers and because my traffic is very extremely well targeted to a constant audience of one particular model, they go back frequently to this site and eventually buy. I have an extremely high amount of NATS "bookmark" sales -- sales without referrals... but certainly cookied.

Originally Posted by robwod (Post 16325820)

Intellichat: Ok, just to clarify.

If they click the "click here" link and decide not to buy at this time, they leave with your cookie and not the affiliate's original cookie.

So, effectively, the affiliate's cookie is overwritten and Intellichat gets credited for the sale if the surfer does come back. And the affiliate gets 50% of that discount, or any at all, instead of the the full commission, despite the fact the affiliate is the one who referred the surfer originally?

Is this a correct statement?

Originally Posted by DonovanTrent (Post 16325875)

Agreed. That's why, when I saw it happening, I immediately thought "I'm not using this on my sites, it's too aggressive."

Originally Posted by Imortyl Pussycat (Post 16325911)

as Billy said though.... it can be disabled, you just have to ask. Referring back to my post after Thurbs, the issue is knowing what to ask. I don't think many program owners would even think to ask such a question. They would just assume it is launching from the close of the join page or tour only (that is the way it is marketed on the chat company sites - all of them). The launch from the back button should be CLEARLY explained as an option to program owners so they don't get upset about it later. I would hate to see them lose a client (as I did) over something so simple that could have been avoided with proper communication.

Originally Posted by Imortyl Pussycat (Post 16325864)

I see that Billy responded to this saying that they can "disable" the pop-on-back which is the same way that UpSellit does it. What is very surprising to me is that he goes on to say that program owners choose the launch points (true with all chat options) and you are seeing so many with the launch off the back button. NEVER, EVER in my years selling the UpSellit chat solution did one single program owner want the pop-on-back (of the 4 dozen programs running it at the time). It very much eats into their profit. It effectively cannibalizes the traffic. This was proven by the HowIGotRich program. Their sales stats before chat, after chat with back button launch and then again with chat without pop-on back. I would have to say that either Intellichat is Not discussing the launch on back button and that is why all their programs are allowing it or they are not correctly communicating this launch point. No program owner with half a brain would allow this :2 cents: Not attacking their company, just stating facts and hopefully they can gain a bit of wisdom from one who worked in that space long before they did and already learned the hard way from mistakes like that.

Originally Posted by TheDoc (Post 16325884)

Correct... and I get what you are saying.

You had sales that got full credit on, that now you don't. The question is, do you have more sales now?

If you sent 5 sales a day, and now you get 6 but two take the offer, that's a 20% gain. If the trial converts, it's net income growth for you. Most sites have scripts that help with trial conversion, and anything over 30% trial to converts, you're growing in money.

Originally Posted by robwod (Post 16325933)

See therein lies the problem for me. Yes, i had 8 additional sales. Were they in addtion to what I normally might have had, i have no idea since these cookies were effectively overridden.

Now, the problem here is that I chose no-trial links because the model I am promoting does not have sufficient content to warrant a trial. You can view her entire site in an afternoon as it is still new. However, I have had had a fan site on her for years and refer a steady supply of signups to her. But not a lot will recur because of the lack of content given it's early age. Now, with these trials injected onto the sales, I made $1.23 for these things instead of $14.97. Sure I had more sales, but at a whole lt less money and given the nature of the site, there's not much chance of a rebill either.

See my issue?

I'd rather take the chance on my referrals going back than end up with a lousy $1.23 for nothing. In my view, I actually lost money on this versus made money. Thankfully the program own disabled it for me. But it doesn't mean I am any less upset at having trial links injected onto my links that had no trials to begin with.

Originally Posted by TheDoc (Post 16325926)

So if you don't launch the window on an exit... how do you get them to see the offer? :)

I hate it when the competition comes knocking.

Originally Posted by robwod (Post 16325933)

I'd rather take the chance on my referrals going back and buying at full price than end up with a lousy $1.23 for nothing. In my view, I actually lost money on this versus made money. Thankfully the program owner disabled it for me. But it doesn't mean I am any less upset at having trial links injected onto my links that had no trials to begin with.

Originally Posted by Imortyl Pussycat (Post 16325955)

you mis-read my post. it was concerning launching off the back button only, which is not an exit my friend. no one is here to compare % or halt any biz. constructive critisizm is sometimes viewed as friendly advice, obviously sometimes not. i would have found it helpful in the earlier days of selling chat to have a veteran come in and tell me what worked for them and what cost them deals (that couldn't happen since there was no one else in the adult space before UpSellit offering this). but that's just me

Originally Posted by intellichat (Post 16325959)

This part is out of our hands.. if a company want to offer a trial through Intellichat thats their choice... along with it being allowed on your traffic.

It sounds like the issue isnt to do with us, but the company you are referring to.

Originally Posted by robwod (Post 16326012)

Agreed. though it was also important for me to learn if, and just how/when, you take over the referring affiliate's cookie and replace it with your own, which you already answered. And as you said, the minute a surfer clicks your link to see what "special deal" is offered, even out of curiosity, and then backs out, he backs out with your cookie and not the affiliate's original cookie. This was important for me to understand as I now know to make sure no program runs this on my referral traffic.

Originally Posted by TheDoc (Post 16326008)

If you click the back button on a page, and a window comes up, that's without question an exit.

Criticism is fine, just leave the self promo at home when the thread is clearly about one of your competitors.

Originally Posted by Imortyl Pussycat (Post 16326051)

ah, ok, I mis-read your post :winkwink: the back button is an exit but it is not neccessarily being used to exit the site without sale. the chat companies push is that they are only going after sales you would have lost otherwise.

and.....FYI..Intellichat is not a competitor as I have not worked for a chat company in nearly a year. I refer to UpSellit because they have been in the space far longer and feel they have overcome several of the issues that Intellichat will overcome in time.

Originally Posted by Imortyl Pussycat (Post 16326051)

FYI..Intellichat is not a competitor as I have not worked for a chat company in nearly a year. I refer to UpSellit because they have been in the space far longer and feel they have overcome several of the issues that Intellichat will overcome in time.

Originally Posted by RyuLion (Post 16326097)

so intellichat is like a virtual real estate agent with boobs?
no need to answer that quest. Good luck with that.

Originally Posted by TheDoc (Post 16326030)

Sorry to tell you Webmasters, in the next 2-3 years. Programs are going to start to monetize like this and many other, aggressive ways.. or they won't be around for you to promote them.

Originally Posted by TheDoc (Post 16326102)

In my opinion, having 1 webmaster happy is not better than dropping you ratios by 20% or more, which helps all active affiliates push you more, bringing the program in more sales than the 1 lost Webmaster ever could have.

Originally Posted by intellichat (Post 16326110)

I'm not sure what issues you are referring to, as far as I am aware we do not currently have any... Intellichat launch new features monthly to keep things fresh & offering clients new ways to increase their revenue.

As you mention above you have been out of the loop for the past year, in October 2008 we we launched an exlcusive automated sales agent for the adult industry. Offering the widest and most sophisticated features available.