Doc: No need to get insulting. It serves to lower the otherwise informative nature of your posts.

That said, are you suggesting that cookie jacking is acceptable even once the surfer leaves the site? You seem to be of the opinion that no one ever returns to the site and when they do, the original affiliate referral isn't entitled to that sale, but rather, the chat program that intercepted and sniped that surfer is entitled to it instead.

Let me just offer this. I spoke to one program owner who uses a competing "chat exit" who informed me that their program DOES maintain the affiliate's cookie.

Do you not agree that this is a friendlier alternative for all persons involved to have it setup this way?

Incidentally, it makes no difference to me if its one sale that returns, or a 100. The amount is irrelevant. The issue is when it does happen, who gets credit and is cookie jacking an acceptable practice.

cookie hijacking.... interesting.... :disgust

The back button is on by default, of course, otherwise what would be the point of using it?

They aren't going to shut it off then ask you if you want it on. The point of having it is to make more money, not waste everyone's time.


Yes, most people put it on the join pages. And if you hit your back button on join pages, normally you are taken to a tour.

The program (nats in this example) can enter your affiliate id into the exit admin and disable the exit for your account.

That is what he was talking about.

if Intellichat copied this part of the technology like they did everything else from UpSellit, then the answer will be:

the back button pop function IS defaulted to on and a box must be checked to turn it off. that is how it is set up with UpSellit not because they ever want it to launch automatically but because it was the only way to program it. It took weeks to figure out how to resolve the issue and that solution was the only one at the time (unless it has changed in the last year) that worked.

That's fine and what about if the program does not use NATS. Plus, you're really just speculating, aren't you? I'd like to hear it from the horse's mouth, frankly.

You ask the correct question about the back button pop, though... What is the point of using it? It only benefits Intellichat.

Uhhhh do you understand how cookies work?

It definitely does not work like that.

Thanks for quoting out of context. Much appreciated. Not being a technical person, it is the reason I asked and wondered aloud about possibilities. I asked a question about possible alternatives, not stating a way to actually implement it technically. There is indeed a difference between a question and a statement.

Grasshopper, you are making a false statement here and I'm sure you know that. UpSellit offers the streaming option but recommends their clients not to use it because after extensive A/B testing it has proven to lower conversions due to the slower load time of the chat. As teacher always said: do your homework

How else, would the surfer get the promo offer?


I have created two of my own backends, use mpa and nats and have seen truestats and others. I have personally been inside 500+ backends...

From what I can remember, all exit systems can be shut off. The ones that can't, like ccbill, simply isn't my issue.

If you asked me to shut them off, I would tell you no.

I said this when I was approached with the software and I'll say it again...

Someone needs to just code this out, and offer it for a flat rate per site that makes the time vs reward worthwhile for the developer. There's a fixed amount of work around getting this set up, yet a partnership income is required for the service (a portion of each sale), it doesn't make business sense - the current model heavily favors the developer, and not the program owner/affiliate. It's a good idea, but when they're leveraging your traffic in exchange for a piece of software that requires a fixed amount of work per site in a "forget it, and set it" situation, it becomes a poor deal.

If someone sat down and really wanted to develop this software, I can't imagine it would be that difficult... this is not currently priced correct for what it is, the person/developer who has some time and who listens to me will make some $. It's a basic under cut of what's being offered, and it will be much easier to get programs to sign on. Dev the software, customize it, and charge $500-$1000 per site, or create packages for affiliate programs that have a large amount of sites. Maybe charge a yearly fee or something else, rev share basis on all sales it generates, most program owners will not go for that.

We all copied someone... I did what you're doing with LivePerson 5 years (with real people) before upsellit domain was registered. I copied it from TCG... I think they got it from CE or FC.

Just saying.. we all copied someone.

another lesson for you green grasshopper since i feel like helping you with my pearls of wisdom today:

Never blame it on the program, aka the hand that feeds you, when you are speaking to any of said program's affiliates. Instead you protect them and have their back by saying "please forgive the inconvenience and confusion here. let me get your affiliate id and suppress your code immediately for you. we are just trying to help your program and it's affiliates make more money, no harm meant"

You see grasshopper, this way you diffuse the anger without making your client, the Program aka the hand that feeds you, look like douchebags and cause a nasty thread about them or an affiliate to leave them.

i know it's past night-night time across the pond so i will stop the schooling for today :)

being copied or emulated is the highest form of flattery after all :winkwink:
not saying it's a bad thing, who could get mad when another Paysite opens? just making a guess as to how they have their back button coding set up in their backend

Both UpSellit and Virtual Adult Agent offer flat rates for the service. I can't speak to it for Intellichat because I don't know if they do. I know there are certain perameters involving the flat rate. I believe for it to be a win/win for both parties a campaign needs to run at least a month to evaluate exactly how much traffic will be processed. The flat rate is based on the volume

By attempting to leave the site without joining. Hitting the back button while on the join page to go back to the tour is NOT leaving the site. It's "oh I wanna see that babe's tits again" or "oh wait, I saw a button for another tour page." Why would anyone (other than Intellichat) want to jump out of their seat to give someone a discount when they haven't even left yet? If they want to look at the tour some more, they're still interested.

great point, you can tell the intellichat guys are very new in this business

Imortyl Pussycat: Just to clarify, I had no intention of this thread being nasty or causing grief to any given program. It's too bad that there's been some defensiveness evolving from the discussion, but such is life.

It's been enlightening though, as I was unaware of the extended superseding of cookies until this discussion evolved, and it's been interesting to see how at least one program owner views their affiliate's cookies being jacked (and undoubtedly there are others who share the same point of view).

As an affiliate, I guess the best one can hope for is that a program does their homework prior to adding a 3rd-party utility such as this and realizes exactly how it works and what potential impact it can have on their affiliates perception of having it intercepting the links.

Incidentally, Doc, I would love to know what program(s) you run. Confidentially if you prefer, but certainly I'd be interested in knowing which program is yours.

i hear ya, i resorted to sarcasm when my actual sincere advice was spat on. i am a girl after all and we have crazytown hormones you boys should fear, LOL. i do believe they will fully "arrive" very soon. my suggestions were more to help shorten that painful learning curve that the veteran company had to go through couple years ago. some people learn better by making their own mistakes. myself included

so which sponsors are using intellichat

Bingo, I don't like this at all for this reason, people hit the back button all the time... all this is doing is training surfers to wait for the discount BS chat.

Even though I thought this was true, I have paysite owners lining up to tell me their overall sales go up 10 to 20%, so who knows, guess I'll have to try it.

Bump, for a Brand New Day.

http://i32.tinypic.com/2qdq2w5.jpg

bump for answers

Again, sales are being GENERATED for you... FOR YOU... So even if a couple slip back through that MIGHT have joined at the full price, the overall GAIN was worth it. Even if a few come back with the cookie you also get credit on, It Was Worth It!

Being so, that tells anyone using Logic that "The Offer Is Selling" the people BETTER than without.

But wait... "Not Everyone" is taking the offer.... so clearly, not everyone clicks it, cares or sees it.

Wow..

And... Nobody is stealing form you, nobody is tricking you, nobody is trying to fuck you, People Are Trying To Make You More Money and More Sales.

It's Really Really Really simple, you people are bitching about programs trying to make you more, it's pathetic.

The Intellichat NATS integration is not "hijacking" your cookies. If and only if someone clicks a link in the IC window does their cookie become modified. Your affiliate code is never removed or changed. The program/payout/join option type part of the NATS code is changed to the IC program and special offer. Your affiliate id is not changed. This is why you still get credit for the sales when they come back.

The sufer will also still have the special offer presented to them when they come back via a type-in/bookmark. This is also why you are getting credit for the special offer trials if these people come back (again, the affiliate id is never modified). There's also a good chance that's the reason they came back and this means extra money for you.

This is only if the surfer types the URL back in or has it bookmarked. If they come again via one of your link codes, they aren't under the IC special offer for the price point or program.

We are working with IC to modify the way this works to only last the session. This will mean that the surfer will only be eligible for the offer and be credited as an IC sale for the current browser session. This will avoid any cookies being modified at all. This will also mean the surfer will not get the IC offer when they come back unless they click the IC offer link again when they revisit the site.

Also, with our integration if you don't want IC offered for you, it can be turned off, as apparently has been done for you.

Thanks for the knowledge and logic John, I hope it doesn't fall on ready to attack ears.

This is exactly what I have been saying. That when the surfer is given this discounted offer via a click action, the affiliate's original cookie is "modified" by this IC offer. My problem remains in the fact that this offer is extended beyond the "offer chat/site visit" and leaves the site with the surfer. In its current form, it is not a time-sensitive offer as it should be.

Otherwise, what's the point of setting up price points in the NATS admin to begin with if they're just going to be ignored in lieu of discounts all the time. If that's the case, might as well make the site dirt cheap and and be done with it.

Once this extended discount issue is resolved, then it's a technology I would welcome as a tool to assist in conversions.

John's post was informative, as yours *can* be,. But you tend to take a contentious approach and don't always seem to try to understand what people are trying to convey. Perhaps the clarification is partly my fault. Hopefully you, like myself, can see merit on both sides of the fence here.

This should be resolved fairly quickly (a week or two) as I don't believe it will be a large change. We're trying to determine how easily we can make it configurable by the program owner. So they can choose the offer to be sticky to the surfer for the life of the cookie or simply only for the current browser session.

Thanks for the info, John, sounds like the resolution you're working on will address robwod's concern. I'll wait to hear from Intellichat on the "back button from join page" default (on or off).

TheDoc, if you would read my posts, I never said using a chatbot doesn't increase sales. I don't recall robwod ever saying that, either. You're fixating on something that is a non-issue here and, frankly, your tone can really discourage a person from ever wanting to check out what you're sigspot-ting.

This seems to be going round in circles, on the #44th and #64th post i put the above comments. We would appreciate that if you are going to comment on this topic to read the entire thread as people seem to be skimming passed my previous answers.

Intellichat settings are disabled by default before a client is set-up. When a new account and campaign is created all companies are asked prior to activation what settings they require. We fully explain what they are and what they do.

If a website is using the back button feature it is because it was requested. For the third and last time on this thread there is NO issue with the back button. It can be turned ON or OFF at anytime.

I was being informative on the front page... when the answers were posted. By time this hit the 3rd page, it was like re-reading myself and others tell you guys the exact same answer 5 different ways.

I tend to get a tad agitated by that point..

your missing the point.

nobody cares that you think because sponsors can adjust the settings in your system so that affiliates end up getting paid less, its not intellichats fault.

you can scream it all you want, pout, threaten to not respond again, whatever


mpa3 had a shaving setting years ago that allowed sponsors to shave their affiliates sales, it was up to the client to adjust it, or leave it alone

that didnt stop all hello from breaking loose when that info was made public

THANK YOU for finally answering the question. This is the first time you came out and said that all options are turned OFF. So now I just have to figure out why anyone would think giving a discount to someone who backs off the join page back to the site tour is a good idea. But that's not for Intellichat to explain, you answered your part of the question.


Well, you kept answering a question that hadn't been asked, so...

He did answer the question:

http://www.gfy.com/16325635-post44.html

"I would like to stress that we have a fix for the back button issue that has been mention a number of times in this thread. We can have it active or disabled it's down to the site owner. (There are very few companies which have the back button feature enabled.)"


More sales, as posted above.. It "increases" sales, produces more, makes more, gets the owner and webmaster more sales, more money, more income, it helps you convert better, stay longer, and want to push them.

Adding a exit off your join page, IS A GOOD THING.

Other than for those very few people... that just don't seem to get it.


That happens when people have to have things explained to them 10 different ways because they don't understand how the Internet works.

I was asking how the setting is from initial startup. You must've missed that detail.


Adding an exit off your join page that pops when people truly leave your site is a good thing.

Adding an exit off your join page that pops when people AREN'T truly leaving your site is not necessarily a good thing.

You are either mistakenly or deliberately missing that distinction.


I am quickly coming to the conclusion that the only reason you're posting here is for sig exposure, so this is my last reply to you in this thread. I won't ignore you because I don't believe in ignoring people.

Exactly, the flat price should be based on the amount of time it takes you to do a customizations. Based upon the flat rate, you'd charge a bigger site more money vs a smaller site who earns less money, yet the work is the same.

It's a fixed amount of work, it should be the same across the board. Last time I checked designers and programmers charge flat rates based on work involved, they don't require their clients to give them a % or charge them a price based on how big the company is. One smart programmer will listen to me, offer the same product for a flat rate that makes sense for them to set up companies vs being greedy about it, and they will wipe all the others off the map, or at least take the bigger clients away and convince new ones to sign up who wouldn't consider it before, people like me. Maybe i'll develop it if i have the time...

Well, only difference is I have tested exits, my various exits, with well over 100,000 sales across 100's of paysites, lots of gfy folks use them. I guess I just know what I'm talking about.


If you could get the offer in front of 100% of the people that back out of the join form, (for whatever reason) you would get more sales.


And with my signature... damn straight I'm marketing it. However, my first several posts did not have the product in my sig. I didn't start off posting to market it. But, I didn't start marketing my signature once other spam was introduced into the post.

i wish it worked that way too, the equal flat rate. but.... there is much more ongoing service involved (man power) the larger the site is. chat log audits are bigger, more sites to update offers for etc. i'm not saying that the rate is hugely different, just that the more labor intensive it is, the more that will be charged to gain the same net. a guy with one site won't take the hours/manpower to review audits/offers and update as a company such as TopBucks for example. up front programming is of course the same sans the custom scripting for each site.

intellichat is the best hands down... its a MUST have for any serious program!!!

you sure about that? i bet youve never seen virtualadultagent.com, charlie from karups is behind it, its a much tighter system imo

He's sig-whoring a referral link for IC, so you have to take it for what it's worth -- an apparent financially motivated post.

Personally, after having the negative experience I described at the beginning of this thread, I have since had a far more positive experience with a competitor's (more mature) exit chat program in use by a different sponsor. Hopefully if people insist on adding IC to their programs, they'll adopt some of the finer points offered by their competitor's product(s). John's statement earlier that they are working with IC to limit the "jacking/modifying" of affiliate cookies to the surfer's current visit, and not beyond, is a good start.