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FYI to Intellichat, 2 of the 3 companies on your Clients page pop the chat window upon hitting the back button from the join page. The other one, I couldn't get the chat window to pop at all, no matter what I did, even when closing the browser from the join page or going flat out to a different typed-in website.
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When we set up clients we give them the option on how they would like the agent activated... |
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Let me just clarify something. I have NO problem with Intellichat on a theory basis, nor do I discount its effectiveness at conversions -- clearly it does.
My one and only problem here is the cookie hijacking. In my opinion, Intellichat is there to give a "last chance" opportunity on converting traffic exiting the site, and in doing so, effectively hijacks the affiliate cookie. Rather than a permanent hijack, I believe it would be best served as a temporary one. It is the affiliate who sent the traffic and it is intellichat who intercepts it. if Intellichat can't make the sale then and there, and the person still leaves, I believe the person should be leaving with the affiliate's original cookie, not Intellichat's. THAT is the big issue I have with Intellichat. |
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Donovan: pfft... No need to apologize. It's a natural flow of discussion to branch out into different things. I actually appreciated the side topic as it gave me more insight. Knowledge if never a bad thing :)
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At no point was it said that our programmers were not capable of making edits to our system. I think you have missed something in your year absense since we have been on the adult scene. The company you previously worked for may have been here 1st, but we are the current market leaders. Offering the most advanced features and currently the only company offering video and streaming options on an automated sales agent. Quote:
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Robwod :- not sure if you saw one of the replies i posted earlier but this was part of it...
when the surfer comes back it is possible for the tracking code to be changed again to a different program but it up to the program owner to set that up so that links will replace the intelichat program id with another program id on the tour links Hit me up on ICQ if you would like to discuss things further. Cheers, Billy |
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I did see this. However, let me ask you this. Rather than hijacking the affiliate cookie in its entirety, why can you not just set Intellichat's as a temp/session cookie that expires on exit, which would result in the affiliate's original cookie being left intact? Let's face it, you never worked for any of the traffic, you simply intercept it and snipe the cookies. |
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One thing I find telling in this thread is the lack of answers to the simple question, "What sponsors are using Intellichat?"
It'd be nice to know exactly which sponsors use it. |
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Since it's it Intellichat's best interest to have that window pop as often as possible, it's only natural to wonder how truly clear Intellichat is about all the different ways to NOT pop the window. Not accusing you of anything, just saying. |
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Our client list is confidential and will remain that way, otherwise we are posting our business on a forum for competitors to see. |
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I realize all of this sounds contentious, but the fact is, I'd welcome Intellichat onto my non-trial referral links if I knew my cookies were not permanently hijacked. Let me ask you. When making your sales pitch to owners, are they informed that you permanently hijack affiliate cookies even if the surfer leaves the chat? |
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Donovan: He said the techs went home so I am guessing he cannot answer the questions until they get in tomorrow. But certainly I am interested in the answers nonetheless.
In the interim, I did take the opportunity to ask some sponsors who use it, and/or whom were approached at Internext about it. Interestingly enough, not one told me they were aware that affiliate's cookies were superseded after the chat window was closed -- after the click here was enacted --, and one never even knew an affiliate's cookies were overwritten at all. Of the ones I asked who were approached at Internext, none were told that IC overwrote any cookies at all (it was not part of the sales pitch at all according to them). Of the ones I spoke with as a whole that knew cookies were used, all of them them assumed the cookie was expired on exit of the chat window. Granted my data sampling is small (5 programs), but it is certainly indicative to me that program owners are adding this Intellichat without any idea that affiliate cookies are getting hijacked beyond the chat exit (*per Billy's admission earlier in this thread*). I'd love to hear IC correct me if this is misinformation. |
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NATS handles the Cookies..... So when a person clicks the link, NATS gives the surfer a new cookie. Every program owner knows this or they really shouldn't be running a program. So yes, if a link is clicked to buy for the new offer, OF COURSE a new cookie is set.. even if you didn't set it, it would make no difference..0. and OF COURSE when the window is closed the cookie/ip isn't cleared. How else would they join with the exit window up? So cancel ip tracking, cookies, the entire system, no refresh of the page, no new codes.. and yet, give the sale back to you? hahaha... Your entire argument is based on the you thinking your sales come back and join at some crazy level, at a later date. Thus intellichat is stealing your return sales, so the cookie should expire. Here is what's funny... even if they did cancel the cookie when the window was closed, you would still get the same amount of sales through intellichat. That's because your sales aren't return visitors. If the nats program had a 1 hour cookie expire, you would still get the same sales through intellichat. At that, you don't even need cookies on, and chances are, you would still get the same % of sales. The only misinformation going on is in your head. |
robwod, if you speak to any of the sponsors again, please ask them if the chat pops on a back button from join page to tour, and if so, if they specifically asked for that option to be turned on and why. I'd be interested in hearing.
Billy hasn't been clear as to whether the back button pop function is defaulted to on and site owner must request it be turned off, or defaults to off and site owner must request it to be turned on. One time he says something and it sounds like it can be turned off if the owner wants, the other time he says it can be turned on if the owner wants. I'd like to hear what some site owners have been told when they signed up. |
Doc: No need to get insulting. It serves to lower the otherwise informative nature of your posts.
That said, are you suggesting that cookie jacking is acceptable even once the surfer leaves the site? You seem to be of the opinion that no one ever returns to the site and when they do, the original affiliate referral isn't entitled to that sale, but rather, the chat program that intercepted and sniped that surfer is entitled to it instead. Let me just offer this. I spoke to one program owner who uses a competing "chat exit" who informed me that their program DOES maintain the affiliate's cookie. Do you not agree that this is a friendlier alternative for all persons involved to have it setup this way? Incidentally, it makes no difference to me if its one sale that returns, or a 100. The amount is irrelevant. The issue is when it does happen, who gets credit and is cookie jacking an acceptable practice. |
cookie hijacking.... interesting.... :disgust
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They aren't going to shut it off then ask you if you want it on. The point of having it is to make more money, not waste everyone's time. Yes, most people put it on the join pages. And if you hit your back button on join pages, normally you are taken to a tour. The program (nats in this example) can enter your affiliate id into the exit admin and disable the exit for your account. That is what he was talking about. |
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if Intellichat copied this part of the technology like they did everything else from UpSellit, then the answer will be: the back button pop function IS defaulted to on and a box must be checked to turn it off. that is how it is set up with UpSellit not because they ever want it to launch automatically but because it was the only way to program it. It took weeks to figure out how to resolve the issue and that solution was the only one at the time (unless it has changed in the last year) that worked. |
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That's fine and what about if the program does not use NATS. Plus, you're really just speculating, aren't you? I'd like to hear it from the horse's mouth, frankly. You ask the correct question about the back button pop, though... What is the point of using it? It only benefits Intellichat. |
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It definitely does not work like that. |
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How else, would the surfer get the promo offer? I have created two of my own backends, use mpa and nats and have seen truestats and others. I have personally been inside 500+ backends... From what I can remember, all exit systems can be shut off. The ones that can't, like ccbill, simply isn't my issue. If you asked me to shut them off, I would tell you no. |
I said this when I was approached with the software and I'll say it again...
Someone needs to just code this out, and offer it for a flat rate per site that makes the time vs reward worthwhile for the developer. There's a fixed amount of work around getting this set up, yet a partnership income is required for the service (a portion of each sale), it doesn't make business sense - the current model heavily favors the developer, and not the program owner/affiliate. It's a good idea, but when they're leveraging your traffic in exchange for a piece of software that requires a fixed amount of work per site in a "forget it, and set it" situation, it becomes a poor deal. If someone sat down and really wanted to develop this software, I can't imagine it would be that difficult... this is not currently priced correct for what it is, the person/developer who has some time and who listens to me will make some $. It's a basic under cut of what's being offered, and it will be much easier to get programs to sign on. Dev the software, customize it, and charge $500-$1000 per site, or create packages for affiliate programs that have a large amount of sites. Maybe charge a yearly fee or something else, rev share basis on all sales it generates, most program owners will not go for that. |
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We all copied someone... I did what you're doing with LivePerson 5 years (with real people) before upsellit domain was registered. I copied it from TCG... I think they got it from CE or FC. Just saying.. we all copied someone. |
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Never blame it on the program, aka the hand that feeds you, when you are speaking to any of said program's affiliates. Instead you protect them and have their back by saying "please forgive the inconvenience and confusion here. let me get your affiliate id and suppress your code immediately for you. we are just trying to help your program and it's affiliates make more money, no harm meant" You see grasshopper, this way you diffuse the anger without making your client, the Program aka the hand that feeds you, look like douchebags and cause a nasty thread about them or an affiliate to leave them. i know it's past night-night time across the pond so i will stop the schooling for today :) |
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not saying it's a bad thing, who could get mad when another Paysite opens? just making a guess as to how they have their back button coding set up in their backend |
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It's been enlightening though, as I was unaware of the extended superseding of cookies until this discussion evolved, and it's been interesting to see how at least one program owner views their affiliate's cookies being jacked (and undoubtedly there are others who share the same point of view). As an affiliate, I guess the best one can hope for is that a program does their homework prior to adding a 3rd-party utility such as this and realizes exactly how it works and what potential impact it can have on their affiliates perception of having it intercepting the links. |
Incidentally, Doc, I would love to know what program(s) you run. Confidentially if you prefer, but certainly I'd be interested in knowing which program is yours.
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so which sponsors are using intellichat
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