I don't think we are disagreeing. I am saying this is a byproduct of conservative framing issues emotional terms.

Really? I think you were just proven to be the idiot. :2 cents:

You obviously didn't read what I posted.

When one mentions the better use of emotional terms and words and titles the republicans use to gather their loyals, one must remember that part of the republican loyals are religious types. They are like wicks for the flame of believe what I tell you politics. It's what they live all of their lives. Faith in things that directly contradict facts is like mothers milk.

Luckily, the united states is not a 2 party system and never has been. Just because a party used to be popular doesnt mean it has to be "saved" or resurrected or redefined. Pick a new party that better represents your own values is a better choice IMHO, and by the way even better, vote on the content of a candidates character, not on the color of their affiliation.

For sure. I think just the religious aspect of the conservatives gives them more of an ability to manipulate voters on an emotional level. Not to mention other sticking points like guns and abortion.

By you linking to the Wikipedia definition of anarchist and trying to imply that I am an anarchist? Believing in limited government does not make me an anarchist any more than you having earned your GED in prison makes you an intellectual. :1orglaugh

Joel I think you would make / ar a SUPER dad! Your like a big kid! And i mean that in the kindest sense.

Oh Hah! You got me there didn't you! Not...

YOU were defining what a conservative was... a conservative is not what you said it was... that is where the grab is bro... you don't even know what the fuck you believe.

You like to use the dictionary so here is a definition that might interest you.

Nice to see a bit of reasonable discussion about this topic, not the girlish whining you usually hear from the corporatist "republican" right wingers.

Sadly, libertarians can't govern, and I say this as a lifelong registered and donating libertarian. There is an inherent flaw in libertarian political theory, in that it depends on an intelligent and well educated population.

Which we do not have, and arguably cannot have.

I often use the term "corporatist" as a way of indicating the political theory that we are really ruled by a class of elites that use the artificial personhood of corporations to hide and manipulate.

Both republicans and democrats are actually corporatists, in this model. The media is a wholly owned product of corporatist influence. yada yada yada.

And there is no easy way out of this situation, short of a a massive change in electoral policy that takes the money out of elections, combining with an equally massive shift in corruption investigations that assumes that politicians are corruptible, rather than treating them like mini kings and queens who are unimpeachable and beyond reproach.

And this is unlikely to happen.

How far from the tree does the apple fall?

Conservatives believe in limited government, honest government, and low taxes.

Show me how those principles conflict with marketing erotica online.

You mean that is what the politicians/pundits that say they are conservatives say they believe in... can you provide a single example of someone who actually reflects those values in their actions. Republicans certainly don't... and they say they are conservatives. In actuality they are Authoritarian or Federalists. Just because someone uses a label doesn't mean that is what they are. I can say I am a pimp... but am I really? No.

Libertarians are actually neo-liberals who are non-Authoritarian and Individualists. They are often confused with conservatives because of propaganda.

Consider this image... Left is economic focus on community... right is economic focus on the individual
http://www.politicalcompass.org/imag...aries_2008.png

Here is mine.

http://www.politicalcompass.org/face...=8.12&soc=0.77

Based on your previous statements... I had assumed that is about where you would be but I had figured you would be a little more libertarian... but you can see there is a great divide between you and most of the people who call themselves "conservatives". You are right in the Neo-Liberal range just as I suggested... that isn't an insult... it's the truth.

The point I was making earlier is that the Republicans and pundits like Beck, Hannity and the like have more in common with Barack Obama than they do with you. You are not really a conservative in the traditional sense... it's just that people have taken that label and applied it to people like Ron Paul (including himself). The reality is that you have more libertarian views and much more individualist than any of those Republicans or so called conservative pundits.

The main points of neo-liberalism include:

1. THE RULE OF THE MARKET. Liberating "free" enterprise or private enterprise from any bonds imposed by the government (the state) no matter how much social damage this causes. Greater openness to international trade and investment, as in NAFTA. Reduce wages by de-unionizing workers and eliminating workers' rights that had been won over many years of struggle. No more price controls. All in all, total freedom of movement for capital, goods and services. To convince us this is good for us, they say "an unregulated market is the best way to increase economic growth, which will ultimately benefit everyone." It's like Reagan's "supply-side" and "trickle-down" economics -- but somehow the wealth didn't trickle down very much.
2. CUTTING PUBLIC EXPENDITURE FOR SOCIAL SERVICES like education and health care. REDUCING THE SAFETY-NET FOR THE POOR, and even maintenance of roads, bridges, water supply -- again in the name of reducing government's role. Of course, they don't oppose government subsidies and tax benefits for business.
3. DEREGULATION. Reduce government regulation of everything that could diminsh profits, including protecting the environmentand safety on the job.
4. PRIVATIZATION. Sell state-owned enterprises, goods and services to private investors. This includes banks, key industries, railroads, toll highways, electricity, schools, hospitals and even fresh water. Although usually done in the name of greater efficiency, which is often needed, privatization has mainly had the effect of concentrating wealth even more in a few hands and making the public pay even more for its needs.
5. ELIMINATING THE CONCEPT OF "THE PUBLIC GOOD" or "COMMUNITY" and replacing it with "individual responsibility." Pressuring the poorest people in a society to find solutions to their lack of health care, education and social security all by themselves -- then blaming them, if they fail, as "lazy."

Which means conservatives cannot be republican.

Deferred taxes are increased taxes. If you pretend to lower taxes, but just lower collections and borrow money to make up the difference, you have actually increased taxes.

The republican party uses conservatives like a pimp uses dumb girls.

Most conservative are Jesus freaks that want to force you and your children to worship God and abide by his rules. Thus a pornographer should be put out of business and put in prison.

Thank you

That is a false statement.

:2 cents:

Really? The Constitution Party are actual conservatives - http://www.constitutionparty.com/par...hp#Pornography

Actually they are warped conservatives, look at what the country was founded on, then come back to me and tell me what a conservative is. What was this country founding principles? Freedom of religion, so those who use there beliefs to mix with politics do not believe in what the constitution stands for.

"religious beliefs"

sorry

It would be interesting to see how things would turn out if you went around and took a poll of people who attended these protests like the Tea Party protests or the 9/12 protests to see if they supported your right to host porn sites... my guess is that you will find that most of them would say that porn should be outlawed. Most of them are not principled Libertarians.

Those people are not conservatives, they are extremest, raciest, and overall idiots.

guns. drugs. porn.

Yep, registered Libertarian and have no plan on ever being anything else. LOL

the left and right are both idiots.

lmao nice

You are absolutely right. But they CALL themselves conservatives and so does the media. So when we are having a discussion we also call them conservatives (even though they are what you said they are) so that we are all on the same page within the discussion and there is no confusion. I know that they (social conservatives) are lumped together with fiscal and political conservatives and I see the distinction you are trying to make.

Glad to see someone understands :)