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-   -   Epoch is asking to see two of my models IDs (https://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=928823)

Barefootsies 09-20-2009 05:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyWhiteBoy (Post 16341838)
when Billy Bob from Epoch Support contacts me and says the models appear to be young, please forward my 2257 documents, they can pretty much FO.
These are people you trust to process your sites, pay you and your affiliates on time, take care of your members and not share their information, built the foundation of your business on, and base your livelihood on,....

Yet you do not trust them?

Barefootsies 09-20-2009 05:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyWhiteBoy (Post 16341847)
Like you, I'm a straight shooter. Tell me how it is, don't sugar coat it or bullshit me.
Amen to that shit BRO.

I agree with you 100%! :thumbsup

DWB 09-20-2009 05:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barefootsies (Post 16341849)
These are people you trust to process your sites, pay you and your affiliates on time, take care of your members and not share their information, built the foundation of your business on, and base your livelihood on,....

Yet you do not trust them?
Sure, the same as I trusted Globill and Ibill, who fucked me for 1000s of dollars.

Trusting a company with a members CC is not the same as trusting some guy who is asking for my models ID. That nut job employee is not going to stalk, rape or murder the site member. There is ALWAYS a freak in a group and no company is without faults.

Barefootsies 09-20-2009 05:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyWhiteBoy (Post 16341859)
Sure, the same as I trusted Globill and Ibill, who fucked me for 1000s of dollars.

Trusting a company with a members CC is not the same as trusting some guy who is asking for my models ID. That nut job employee is not going to stalk, rape or murder the site member. There is ALWAYS a freak in a group and no company is without faults.
I hear ya.

I am not out to bust your chops bud. I am just trying to understand the DWB thought process on this issue. Right now I simply can't grasp the rationale for the mountain of the mole hill, but as I said before. It is your fight, ultimately, and your business.

So do whatever you like in that regard. :thumbsup

DWB 09-20-2009 05:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barefootsies (Post 16341867)
I hear ya.

I am not out to bust your chops bud. I am just trying to understand the DWB thought process on this issue. Right now I simply can't grasp the rationale for the mountain of the mole hill, but as I said before. It is your fight, ultimately, and your business.

So do whatever you like in that regard. :thumbsup
Yea, I know.

I disagree with it for a few reasons. I've also given them two options to get the IDs they require.

They will not budge on the issue, I know this, and that's OK. Honestly, I think they are a pain in the ass anyway and prefer to deal with CCbill. Though, we moved to Epoch as our #1 because CCbill scrubbed so damn much and we made more $ with Epoch.

I'll talk to them tomorrow and see what we can work out. I'm not against working something out, but for fucking sure I'm not just going to send them what they are requesting out of the gate. Maybe they can call a local Sheriff to be present when they receive the blacked out IDs (no name, addy, numbers or country of issue) and then dispose of them with him has a witness. Something. Or, it's time to walk yo!

rowan 09-20-2009 05:43 PM
Simple question to Epoch...

What is the minimum information required to confirm the legal age of these models? Will photo ID with *only* the photo and date of birth showing (everything else blacked out for privacy) suffice?

d-null 09-20-2009 05:44 PM
major respect for DWB :thumbsup

AsianDivaGirlsWebDude 09-20-2009 05:50 PM
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2274/...de3e7a6c_o.jpg

Please post pix of the two ladies in question... :2 cents:

ADG

Deej 09-20-2009 05:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barefootsies (Post 16341867)
I hear ya.

I am not out to bust your chops bud. I am just trying to understand the DWB thought process on this issue. Right now I simply can't grasp the rationale for the mountain of the mole hill, but as I said before. It is your fight, ultimately, and your business.

So do whatever you like in that regard. :thumbsup
I already pointed out his thought process ealrier...

DWB = morals/saftey>profit

Its hard to believe in this industry but thats it...

Bototm line...

StinkyPink 09-20-2009 06:01 PM
This thread is definately a good read. I just spent the last hour going through every post.

I am curious if this lamp you are so fond of has a genie in it by chance? Why anyone would value a lamp over their business is beyond me.

At any rate, I see both sides of the story, but I also think DWB is right. However... I believe that if in fact there is something in the Epoch TOS (which hasn't been stated factly yet) then that part of the contract should be changed.

Otherwise I would say that blacking everything out besides the photo and age would be fine, but DWB has a point (at least in his case) about blacking out country, which would void proof of government issue.

Barefootsies 09-20-2009 06:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deej (Post 16341902)
I already pointed out his thought process ealrier...

DWB = morals/saftey>profit

Its hard to believe in this industry but thats it...

Bototm line...
Trying to keep the thread love going eh?

As for the DWB thought process, I prefer to hear it from him directly Birkenstock.

d-null 09-20-2009 06:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barefootsies (Post 16341909)
Trying to keep the thread love going eh?

As for the DWB thought process, I prefer to hear it from him directly Birkenstock.
your avatar doesn't "fit" you for some reason, maybe I'm just not used to it yet

Nick_Merlot 09-20-2009 06:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lagcam (Post 16340793)
If the content is more than 2 years old as stated, then the chances are that the ID in question is a paper Thai ID card that is written in Thai including the date of birth, and without checking with the Thai authorities I doubt anybody would be able to conclusivey verify if it was genuine or not.

At that time, even genuine ID cards looked like they had been done on an etch a sketch and put through the washing machine. The newer ones are in plastc form, have thai and English, and also contain a chip, but more than two years ago very few had them.

:2 cents:
Excellent point. DWB hit me up, I'll make you one. Shit, I'll make you a few for different countries with blank photo spots so you can use them as needed.

I think Epoch is spending their time wisely by harassing you instead of the 'girlfriend' sites. /sarcasm

TheDoc 09-20-2009 06:07 PM
Is it hard for you people to believe that when you do business with others, they take on risk, for sure in situations like Epoch?

I can't see how any, real business person, is going to tell me that they can't see why epoch doesn't take on extreme risk, and probably should ask for this while doing spot checks and how they are in the rights to ask this.

I respect a person for choosing who they want to do business with and why.. it's your business, mad respect.

But... if in the same time, I can't see how equal respect can't be given to Epoch for supporting our entire Industry and Community that uses them. Making sure they will be around when, stupid shit, goes down... I can support blindly when it's my business on the line too.

d-null 09-20-2009 06:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDoc (Post 16341916)
Is it hard for you people to believe that when you do business with others, they take on risk, for sure in situations like Epoch?

I can't see how any, real business person, is going to tell me that they can't see why epoch doesn't take on extreme risk, and probably should ask for this while doing spot checks and how they are in the rights to ask this.

I respect a person for choosing who they want to do business with and why.. it's your business, mad respect.

But... if in the same time, I can't see how equal respect can't be given to Epoch for supporting our entire Industry and Community that uses them. Making sure they will be around when, stupid shit, goes down... I can support blindly when it's my business on the line too.
good points, Doc, respecting one shouldn't imply disrespect of the other, this seems to be one of those issues that have well meaning intentions on both sides I believe

itto 09-20-2009 06:22 PM
So let's see.. a legit company you do business with is asking you for some id's in order see if everything's ok.

Why you assume there's some sort of rogue employee wanting to stalk the girls with that information is totally and i mean TOTALLY beyond me.

Is it because of the general paranoia and "wild west" attitude in the adult biz?
If this was mainstream, would you also act like this?
..What if your normal bank calls you up and asks for some papers, would you also ask for their employee's background / nda / etc?!

Don't get me wrong, i'm just trying to understand this...you do business, epoch does business. Your stuff is legit, theirs is.. they request some kind of proof, why not cooperate? That's a fucking standard way of doing business.

directfiesta 09-20-2009 06:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDoc (Post 16341687)
If I send a C&D to a hosting company, they will make you show proof. Or I will own that hosting company.
Nope .... You will need to send a DMCA with proof that YOU own the content, without any doubt. Till then, your C&D will be used as paper napkins.


On the other hand, if a hosting company decides, in respect to his own business plan , to terminate that account, he will have to do it accordingly to his TOS.

Deej 09-20-2009 06:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barefootsies (Post 16341909)
Trying to keep the thread love going eh?

As for the DWB thought process, I prefer to hear it from him directly Birkenstock.
HOW DARRRRRE YOU !

Call me a mother fuckin birkenstock you foot fucker!!!

although it was funny youre off!

:pimp

Deej 09-20-2009 06:34 PM
you know.... i might be a birkenstock...

directfiesta 09-20-2009 06:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyWhiteBoy (Post 16341809)
I don't have access to that contract to see if that's the case or not. It very well may be, and if so, then I will just have to not use them.
I will take a look at my contract with Epoch to see ... Must be like 3 years old ( Paycom at the time ) .... so probably the same as the one of DWB.

Robbie 09-20-2009 06:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by itto (Post 16341938)
Is it because of the general paranoia and "wild west" attitude in the adult biz?
If this was mainstream, would you also act like this?
DWB pointed out earlier that there is a DEATH penalty for many of the Asian countries he shoots in if these girls were ever accused of shooting porn. And in the case of the 2 girls in question...one of them is Cuban and was shot in Cuba and would face jail time if it was discovered she had shot porn.

I'm kinda wondering what does Epoch or any other third party biller do in cases where it is illegal in the country in question to give out another person's ID because of privacy laws? What do you do about that Epoch?

I've never been to a gf site before today by the way. But I googled up girlfriend sex and found a ton of them. And Epoch and CC Bill are right there processing the hell out of completely undocumented content.
What's the answer on that one Epoch?

And like Dirty D...I too get very annoyed by third party billers telling me what I can and can't do on my own website. And "no" I'm not talking about anything "illegal" or even "questionable"...I'm talking about nit-picking STUPID shit that is none of their business.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sly (Post 16341733)
If you think hosting companies are going to let illegal content or questionable content run rampant on their servers you are nuts.
You know I have wondered about this for years. When I first got on the internet in the mid 1990's there was already underage porn everywhere. And apparently there still is. And some of it is downright horrible with little kids and even toddlers.
And we all hear that hosting companies would never tolerate it. And yet it apparently still exists and has a huge fan base. And somebody is processing the money for it too and accepting VISA. How the hell can that be?

area51 - BANNED FOR LIFE 09-20-2009 06:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 16341975)
DWB pointed out earlier that there is a DEATH penalty for many of the Asian countries he shoots in if these girls were ever accused of shooting porn. And in the case of the 2 girls in question...one of them is Cuban and was shot in Cuba and would face jail time if it was discovered she had shot porn.

I'm kinda wondering what does Epoch or any other third party biller do in cases where it is illegal in the country in question to give out another person's ID because of privacy laws? What do you do about that Epoch?

I've never been to a gf site before today by the way. But I googled up girlfriend sex and found a ton of them. And Epoch and CC Bill are right there processing the hell out of completely undocumented content.
What's the answer on that one Epoch?

And like Dirty D...I too get very annoyed by third party billers telling me what I can and can't do on my own website. And "no" I'm not talking about anything "illegal" or even "questionable"...I'm talking about nit-picking STUPID shit that is none of their business.


You know I have wondered about this for years. When I first got on the internet in the mid 1990's there was already underage porn everywhere. And apparently there still is. And some of it is downright horrible with little kids and even toddlers.
And we all hear that hosting companies would never tolerate it. And yet it apparently still exists and has a huge fan base. And somebody is processing the money for it too and accepting VISA. How the hell can that be?
I usually think you're a tool but nice post.

Robbie 09-20-2009 06:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by area51 (Post 16341986)
I usually think you're a tool but nice post.
I could really give a fuck what you think. :)

area51 - BANNED FOR LIFE 09-20-2009 06:53 PM
lulz.

make some more money off your wife getting fucked by other guys

Deej 09-20-2009 06:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by area51 (Post 16342002)
lulz.

make some more money off your wife getting fucked by other guys
What makes you think thats his wife?

Robbie 09-20-2009 07:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deej (Post 16342008)
What makes you think thats his wife?
'Cause it is and she's a big tit whore. :1orglaugh
Pay no attention to that clown. This is a very interesting business thread and I have no indication that area51 is even in this business. So I could care less what he thinks.

And none of that is important anyway. I don't want to see the thread jacked. So I'm just gonna ignore him.

_Richard_ 09-20-2009 07:18 PM
understand where you're coming from regarding the privacy of models who reside in countries that will jail them for life if anyone found out, but i would say blacking out all info but the picture and DOB would be sufficient for verification with both parties concerns in mind

Deej 09-20-2009 07:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 16342016)
'Cause it is and she's a big tit whore. :1orglaugh
Pay no attention to that clown. This is a very interesting business thread and I have no indication that area51 is even in this business. So I could care less what he thinks.

And none of that is important anyway. I don't want to see the thread jacked. So I'm just gonna ignore him.
f you werent aware its Justin, the local board whore so he says damn near anything contradictory if it dosnt absolutely suite his fancy....

I have met you both and I dont give a shit what whos where... what?! those big tits thrown in your face make you not give a SHiiiit!

Barefootsies 09-20-2009 08:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deej (Post 16342053)
those big tits thrown in your face make you not give a SHiiiit!
Do they make your eyes pop out of your head, and your socks fly out of y'er Birkenstock's?

Deej 09-20-2009 08:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barefootsies (Post 16342122)
Do they make your eyes pop out of your head, and your socks fly out of y'er Birkenstock's?
I find it creepy that you would know that I would wear socks with my birkenstocks...

GAMEFINEST 09-20-2009 08:51 PM
not sure why they would ask for that ...

Barefootsies 09-20-2009 09:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deej (Post 16342203)
I find it creepy that you would know that I would wear socks with my birkenstocks...
Must be you find it creepy people have any king of memory, and can remember you, yourself, bringing this up in conversation. That you are a Pacific Northwestern, sock and sandal wearing, Birkenstock, mofo.

Hence the reference.

:upsidedow

Iron Fist 09-20-2009 09:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barefootsies (Post 16341849)
These are people you trust to process your sites, pay you and your affiliates on time, take care of your members and not share their information, built the foundation of your business on, and base your livelihood on,....

Yet you do not trust them?
LOL... there's more truth in this sentence that explains the industry as a whole than I think even they know. Fuck the members, fuck the affiliates, fuck everyone, except the model.

So true on so many levels, I can't believe I never saw this before... :2 cents:

AsianDivaGirlsWebDude 09-20-2009 09:17 PM
http://www.gregsopinion.com/images/goats.jpg

Must have pix of the models in question, to pass moral judgement upon, and rub one out to, prior to going to bed - please... :anon

ADG

Deej 09-20-2009 10:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barefootsies (Post 16342228)
Must be you find it creepy people have any king of memory, and can remember you, yourself, bringing this up in conversation. That you are a Pacific Northwestern, sock and sandal wearing, Birkenstock, mofo.

Hence the reference.

:upsidedow
Even though I have never worn a birkenstock in my life... you are quite observant nonetheless...

It was one show and Im scorned for life...

AaliyahLove 09-20-2009 11:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyWhiteBoy (Post 16341566)
Dude, I have had MEMBERS, go to cities in other countries, with photos in hands and look for these girls. A few of them have been found!!! THIS SHIT HAPPENS!!!! Guys are fucking OUT OF CONTROL when it comes to pussy.

That's what I'm saying! No chances. It's not worth it. If they NEED the IDs, get the FBI to accompany you and visit the address for that content on my 2257 page. :2 cents:
It has happened, to so many models, I have heard sooo many crazy stories, DWB is right, you just NEVER KNOW! It think it's really commendable of you to protect your models DWB, I really respect you for what you are doing here! :)

pornjudge 09-20-2009 11:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyWhiteBoy (Post 16340557)
But who supervises them with this information? How can THEY be trusted? So what, some guy at Epoch turns out to be a kook, he stalks one of the girls, rapes her or worse, and if anyone even ties it to him, Epoch just fires him and keeps on trucking.

No fucking way. Give some unknown guy YOUR personal information if you are so comfy with it. You're a sexy gurl, you should not have anything to worry about, right? I mean, they bill for our sites, why would they have freaks working there?
Ok, we got your point;) why are you so paranoid? They also have a job to do, what if the person in question who is asking you for the documents gets fired because he is not doing is job, will you offer him a job? Did you read their TOS, i'm sure they are aloud to ask you for it. Its up to you to give it or not but if the TOS states they are aloud, well you have no choice to give it to them or like you said move to ccbill... I bet ccbill have the same rules also. So what are you going to do when ccbill ask you also? go to ibill:1orglaugh and big chances you will get screwed by them, so better go with option 1 and give them the info, after all they are paying you;) and that's how you pay your models with Epoch sending you cheques!

I have to give you :thumbsup thumbs up though for trying to protect your models... Ya Pimp you!

Deej 09-20-2009 11:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pornjudge (Post 16342429)
Ok, we got your point;) why are you so paranoid? They also have a job to do, what if the person in question who is asking you for the documents gets fired because he is not doing is job, will you offer him a job? Did you read their TOS, i'm sure they are aloud to ask you for it. Its up to you to give it or not but if the TOS states they are aloud, well you have no choice to give it to them or like you said move to ccbill... I bet ccbill have the same rules also. So what are you going to do when ccbill ask you also? go to ibill:1orglaugh and big chances you will get screwed by them, so better go with option 1 and give them the info, after all they are paying you;) and that's how you pay your models with Epoch sending you cheques!

I have to give you :thumbsup thumbs up though for trying to protect your models... Ya Pimp you!
you didnt read the whole thread did you?

pornjudge 09-20-2009 11:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deej (Post 16342436)
you didnt read the whole thread did you?
Dont have time to read the whole thread, have work to do. I just replied on what he is saying.

AsianDivaGirlsWebDude 09-20-2009 11:46 PM
Playing the devil's advocate here...

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f4...k/jailbait.jpg

Post some pix of the 18+ year old models that you have documentation on, but don't want to provide redacted ID's of (in order to satisfy the requirements of the people that process your transactions).

While I also question authority on a regular basis, and I understand your protectiveness of your models, Rand from Epoch appears to have validated the request from his company (it is not a rogue stalker employee seeking your proof of age on specific models for nefarious purposes).

Put another way, Epoch appears to be doing it's due diligence in order to ensure that they can continue processing transactions on behalf of adult industry companies.

While we're on the topic, what is your rationale and justification for shooting porn in countries where pornography is illegal?

ADG


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