Being that they aren't a government agency, a written affidavit of you swearing under the penalty of perjury that she is of age should do. I would imagine atleast.
Duke

Here are the two girls in question, who "appear fairly young."

Both have had kids, and both are CLEARLY not underage.

http://digitaldope.com/images/board_...poch_girls.jpg

So please, what is the point in this? Why does "Joe" from "Support" hit me up asking about the IDs of these two girls, when I have girls who look way younger than these two. It doesn't make sense.

So what if I black out the IDs, they can not even verify the IDs are real or who the model really is, so how does this protect Epoch?

DOES ANYONE HERE THINK THESE GIRLS LOOK UNDERAGE?

THOSE GIRLS!!??

you have GOT to be kidding me LOL

no they appear to be very legal


spaz

You put your right hand in,
You put your right hand out,
You put your right hand in,
And you shake it all about,

You do the hokey pokey
and you turn yourself around
That what it's all about.

do we know that? the only one that can tell is yourself. careful: i am not accusing you, i just say that no one can tell that but yourself. No one (also not me) is granted innocence based on a message board reputation. 99,9% on here don't know you personally, so 99,9% have no saying in this. Do i think you shoot underage porn? No. Do I have a problem if Epoch would like to check one of my girls? No, but i see your point about protecting your models. I don't have that problem over here.

you're right about that, but my guess is that it would not have been questioned any further. and you would have saved a lot of typing on GFY. And I would have contacted my sales rep first and asked what this is about. I have not dealt much with Epoch yet, but so far Frank Gannon was always helpful in straightening things out. And if you would have explained what the problem is, i am almost sure that a mutual solution would have been possible.

Actually the FBI has a attache in just about every country, they can check on an ID with ease. I know this for a fact.

haha, well, after seeing this i'd say someone needs his eyes checked if he thinks those are underage - you're right about that

You are 100% correct. :2 cents:

Actually, I will contact them but as I'm in Thailand and Thailand is not the place of my records, I have to wait for those records to be given to me. Then I can address this with Epoch. Until then, I just have a lot of hot air to blow. :upsidedow

But did you see the screen caps of the girls? Jeeze.

Yea man, now it may be coming clear. Nobody with good eyes would even question those girls. So when such a mail comes from "support" about models who are CLEARLY of age, I circle the wagons and go on the defensive. It just doesn't make sense.

Exactly. Makes sense now?

DWB. Here is what you should do. Go into NATS. Do a member search for all active members billed by Epoch. It won't be many since we all keep Epoch last or next to last in the cascade because they are so expensive compared to your merchant account.

Write up an email with instructions for them all to cancel their memberships through Epoch. And include a link for them to re-sign up through your merchant account along with an extra free month included.

Then you've just saved the few Epoch rebills. Now simply take them out of the cascade.
Done.

Robbie, I like your style man. :thumbsup

Brilliant!!!!

Eh...it beats arguing with them. You've given them a couple of options (of course not ones that they are likely to do since they don't want any part of the FBI or any govt. agency either)

I woulda thought they would have had someone with some stroke there contact you like a real business and talk it over with you to make you feel a little more at ease. But if not...it ain't like Epoch is that big a deal to most people doing real sales anyway.

And like Dirty D said earlier...not only is price a bit of a factor, but the way they try to dictate to people what can and can't be on a website (not talking about illegal stuff). There is a reason that Epoch doesn't have the kind of coverage that they had a few years back. And most of us who deal with them know that.

But they were good for x-sales. I'll give 'em that.

You are spot on man.

And yea, someone with some stroke should be the one to ask for such things. "Joe" from "Support" ain't the one. As far as I know, Joe doubles as the company janitor when the place gets dirty.

Happy 40th. birthday for the one on the left!

If those pictures were posted on page 1, the next 10 pages would have been full of "No fucking way" comments.

I am not surprised Epoch stopped commenting. This thread hasn't been the best publicity for them.

:2 cents:

as a sick individual i can certify these girls arent even close to underage.

Actually it made sense to me as soon as you said it came from support and not compliance or risk


spaz

I recall a story when 2257 first started hitting about some temp programmer that dumped all the 2257 docs to a thumb drive & then started posting them on boards.

Another pet peeve of mind is when these corporations start writing their own rules, and acting like they are above the laws.

Right on Robbie, Epoch and every other cc processor has no right to see any records regarding models. They are not a law enforcement agency. I had a cc processor ask me for records in the mid 90's and I told them to suck a dick and set up my own merchant account. If people start giving in to these punks then we will all have to pay a price later down the road... :2 cents:

BTW. you don't know me but we met in June here in Vegas at the xbiz show.. I enjoyed talking to you and also reading your posts...

Based on epoch's stupid request, I think I will email ALL of the sponsor's I use and tell them I need to see the ID's of all of the models that are in the content that they provide to me to use...I wonder how far that will go..LOL

interesting thread..i also dont think it is just anyone's right to demand model releases.

although it is also their right not to allow you to process with them

hard call..but certainly not goign to start handing out releases to anyone who asks them

I would just tell little epoch to fuck off and move cc processing somewhere else..and read the agreement BEFORE I sign it..

This thread makes me wonder how many photographers or webcam studios I have worked with that would protect my identity like DWB or would of handed it over without question?

i dont think it says in their TOS that you have to give them special right above the fbi and law to obtain the documents... Dont have to give them up in a different manner.

Sure it might be easier to just send them via email. But its not his obligation to make their record retrieval any easier just because they arent the law.

Just sent some fakes to your email, let me know if you got'em.

You probably have very good reason to worry. It's just another reason to concentrate on your own site Aaliyah and not worry about shooting for others. It's not worth the small pay of a shoot to possibly end up getting hurt if your personal info were to get out. :(

:1orglaugh Dude, that is all time classic shit. How did you do that?

Their T.O.S. can say you have to jerk off in a cup monthly, and send it to them if you want their processing. If you read and sign it, then you are obligated to do what their agreement asks for, if you want them to process for your site, affiliates, and payments.

It has nothing to do with if demanding you jerking off in a cup monthly is legal or not in the U.S. or abroad.

It is a COMPLIANCE issue with their T.O.S. demanding to see docs (whether they blame it on VISA, merchant bank, or the boogie man) for asking to see them. Not a 2257 issue.

:disgust

Can I also have the id's of these two hotties ... please :1orglaugh

Someone please explain it to me, like I am 3 years old, how an ID that looks like this, is going to protect them, or verify a single thing?

http://digitaldope.com/images/board_pics/id.jpg

That's good enough for me!

Send it to Epoch and case closed. :pimp:pimp:pimp

Fucking love you man.

:1orglaugh :1orglaugh :thumbsup

1) I'm not seeing this part in their TOS.

2) If it's not a 2257 issue, why did they SPECIFICALLY ask for my "2257 documents" for those models? They didn't say anything about "compliance" or their TOS.

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

Robbie, I'm actually taking your advice on mailing the members. Thanks.

Hell, I think I'm going to do that to MY drivers license!

Thank you EPOCH, you have just solved the problem of Identity Theft. :pimp

Now I won't have to worry ever again about having my credit cards stolen or anything! :thumbsup


We need to take this to the national media and show everybody this great new way to prove age!

I know thats not my point...

re read it...

What i meant was ( now im not positive as i havent signed said agreement) that i doubt they have the method of just giving the ids over to them stated clearly like that. So that would make it the next method that is standard, correct?

I may be wrong, another assumption...

Dood, you MUST bring back your old avatar. :2 cents:

Can you believe I've been a victim of identity theft TWICE? It took YEARS to get the bulk of that mess cleaned up. Another reason I don't play around with peoples identity.

They are asking for your 2257 in regards to COMPLIANCE with their T.O.S..

Come on man. I know you are taking a stand and all, but I know you are an intelligent guy. You know what I am getting at here. The fact they are idiots and not using the right language for merchant bank, or what they are asking for. You know what they are getting at.