why's dat?
:disgust

Well yes and no. They could say, "please send us the IDs of the following models..." and that would sit a little better. I still would not give it to them, but it would get to the point and be very clear about what they need.

However, when they ask for "2257 documents" that is more than just an ID. That is the ID, along with the form that has the models personal information on it, including stage names, aliases, current address, and so on. There is a difference.

So I have to say, given they are the all trustworthy, all knowing and all powerful Epoch, I would think they would get their terminology down when requesting such a thing, and as Robbie suggested, have someone with a little stroke do the requesting. However, by them not doing so, for any of that, and having Joe from Support ask for this, it makes them look VERY unprofessional in my book.

It just fit better.

Thanks, I rubbed one out to the Cubana jalapeno (she better have been of legal age, damn it)... :winkwink:

http://www.zgeek.com/forum/gallery/f...3/jailbait.jpg

I see your point. I also go out of my way to protect the identity of the models I shoot, although I think I would comply with a legitimate request from an ISPS.

However, I don't blame you for your suspicion about a Tech Support dude requesting ID info on two models whom on first glance appear 18+, especially when they have similar features.

Hopefully you two can work it out... :thumbsup

ADG

I'll explain it to you like an adult.

1. You said you make MORE money with Epoch
2. We're in a recession
3. Pirating is more prevalent than ever
4. Free porn is everywhere, hurting sales even more

So instead of six pages of writing paragraph after paragraph, WHY IN THE FUCK NOT just fire up photoshop, send them that shit and be done with it?.....Gotdamn man, you did it just now to prove a point....So You're willing to throw away GOOD MONEY over this?...It doesn't make any fucking sense....SO WHAT if they can't verify it? SO WHAT if they're not a government agency.....Send them an id just like you showed AND BE DONE WITH THIS and keep making fucking MONEY!!!!!!!

I'm on your side and all but you're taking this shit way too far....Fuck man.

I always have respect for people that stand by their principles.

That still doesn't answer his question though...How does an id that has been redacted like that protect Epoch in any way, shape, or form?

And I can answer that one: It doesn't.

Starting to look more like a power trip on Epoch's part. If they really believe that those two girls are underage and that DWB isn't keeping proper records...then they should immediately terminate his processing with them and call the FBI.

Instead they are trying to order him to do something that as a producer he is NOT gonna do.

I can understand that Epoch has to make sure that they aren't processing anything illegal. But they pretty much fired off a command for him to do it via an email. They could have written him and asked him to call them and discuss it. Or any of a million ways that people do business together.

This whole thing points out one of the problems with the govt. sticking their nose where it doesn't belong (2257 laws) and the list of problems that arise because of it.

Also after reading this and googling up "girlfriend sex" I found Epoch & CC Bill to be the main and most times ONLY processors for sites that don't have any 2257 records at all.

How can that be? And why aren't they shutting off their processing to such sites? Seems as if they are talking out of both sides of their mouths on this one.

They want DWB to put them above the power that even the FBI has and say it is to protect them from VISA regulations. And at the same time they are processing VISA for sites that supposedly are breaking all those VISA rules.

Just seems crazy to me...

this issue is such a non-issue. If there is a legitimate issue with a models age, it should be brought to the attention of the police.

Epoch can't possibly verify any of the id's sent to them legally. The id's do nothing. ( other than open up a huge avenue for unscrupulous activity blackmail/identity theft/stalkers/ etc

Maybe it's a case of Epoch being able to say that they made every effort within legal means to verify? Perhaps that is what is needed to cover their ass in case someone were using underage content. That's the only thing I can see that makes sense.

But the processing for sites that don't have 2257 like girlfriend sites doesn't make sense to me.

without a doubt that is epochs intention ( barring something shady like a bad employee )

but there are a few problems with that. #1 and most important it may not be legal #2 without asking for every i.d. they havent done there best to verify much at all.



this totally makes sense and im sure is the main reason behind it BUT as we have seen the asking for documentation doesn't appear to be random nor does it appear to be regular.

i.e. off the top of my head i would assume if your intention was to make sure your clients had legal content would be to either check ALL id's or ask for a random sampling from EVERY client at signup and at various times throughout the partnership. The sites would be fully aware of this and dwb wouldn't be here asking why.


My guess would be the 2 solutions would hurt business ( bye bye gf sites who wouldnt be able to provide a random sampling of 2257 docs at signup = bye bye $$$ )

In a nutshell.. Getting rid of possible underage content doesnt make them any money, protecting themselves legally while not scaring away customers = $$$

although i dont really see how that argument would help them legally.
IMAGINARY COURT CASE - U.S. vs EPOCH
-----------------------------------------------
JUDGE - "epoch you are hereby charged with processing for a pornsite with underage content"

EPOCH - "it's a lie your honour, you see what we do is every so often we pick a site from a hat and ask for 2 of the models id's"

JUDGE - " oh well in that case , you are free to go "

EPOCH - "phew"

-----------------------------------------------

I do not have time to read this entire thread, but has anyone pointed out that ONLY those appointed by the DOJ have any rights to view ANY 2257 documentation. That is stated in the law.

Yes, but some people do whatever others say them, just to avoid any hassle.

Man, life isn't only about money.

BVF, it's not like that man, there is more to it and I wan to know the drill, and why, as it's not in the contract I have with them. At least I can't find it if it is. Also, I'm waiting on these docs to be sent to me as I am in Thailand, and that is NOT my place of record holding. So until those come, I don't have anything to do anyway, and it's pissing down rain which means I'm stuck inside anyway.

Robbie gets it.

Smokey gets it.

Old Jeff totally gets it.

andrej_NDC, gets something else. And that is... life is about money AND bitches. :2 cents: :winkwink:

WOW 6 fucking pages!!

Drama threads deliver. :2 cents:

Those girls are an easy 21. The one on the left has some saggage on the boob's. a teen wouldnt have that. unreal. The one in the right is clearly an adult.
Duke

I'm a family man...I want the bitch to be my wife. :1orglaugh

It's kinda like they have hired people to look for this kind of thing...and since it's pretty obvious that is an overwhelming task with hundreds, maybe thousands of sites and hundreds of thousands of images and movies to look at...so the low salary guy who has that job makes sure to ask for a few id's from different sites so he can say to his superior: "Hey look! I verified some more ID's this month. My job is necessary"

3 hundo epoch question

OK, I only managed to get to post #174, but I never read anything on the matter, so I'll ask it.

If it's ok for epoch to demand IDs or they will dump you, then where does that put non-US companies that don't fall under the 2257 law? I'm not doing anything wrong by not holding docs on file, so why am I putting Epoch at risk?

Or is epoch only processing for 2257-regulated US companies now?

See sig :) No 2257 required!

Who processes for Tube sites? Are they 2257 exempt?

Yep. As long as they can claim "user upload" they seem to be legally exempt from EVERYTHING. :(

I'm not really seeing the down side to running your own Tube filled with stolen, er.. user submitted content then to be honest.

There isn't a down side at this point. Of course trying to start one now would be pretty fruitless. The big ones got there firstest with the mostest and have built up a big following.

If the models in question honestly look underage, I still would not be happy, but I could at least somewhat understand where they were coming from. However, since they are clearly not underage, this means a low level and poorly trained (or brand new) guy flagged them. So how do you trust a new, low level or poorly trained guy, with ANYTHING, if he can not even spot girls who really look underage and know that saggy tits and swollen bellies from having kids, usually doesn't go hand and hand with little underage girls. If a well trained employee was at the wheel, these girls would not be in question.

bump for you

UPDATE:

The only data Epoch will allow to be redacted, is the models address. ALL other information must be shown, along with a signed model release, OR they will terminate ALL processing for my account, including ALL rebills, by September 25, 2009, no later than 5:30pm PST.

<insert "tub girl" photo here>

This is good info...at least we know to stay away from epoch. How the fuck do they dare to keep your rebills? That would be stealing.

We had the same situation.
Processing on Epoch EU, etc. Was asked for ID for 5 models picked randomly - including photos that had no heads in them.

It's a binary situation: you want to work with Epoch, you have to cough it up. If you object, you don't.

What did you do? The headless models... classic.

I started out hell bent against it. Then I thought, well, if I can black everything out but the face and DOB, there could be nothing bad come of that. I even figured I would let them do something the FBI is not allowed to do. But that wasn't good enough.

Honestly, if the girls in question actually looked underage, I can see where they are coming from. But those girls, it just throws a red flag to me.

Shitty situation and i have been there except it was the FEDS, so naturally i didn't have a choice :Oh crap ( which turned out it was a false accusation by a mother of a model) but i would have just sent them over without stirring up any shit. I don't know about you, but my processors hold a lot of my money, so it wouldn't have even given it a second thought. I would have just blacked out the address and faxed them over.