Nobody is saying watch porn in a tiny ass video, you can shoot 1000-2000bit rate 640x480 videos that aren't HD.

I watch my PC on my TV all the time.. If I want to watch a real movie on HD, I understand that.. but porn on HD, it's not what surfers want and it isn't what you're watching at home.

I don't download, save, or watch anything off the web that isn't HD... (movies, porn, tv shows)

pirate alert!!! ;)

Hahah actually there are plenty of legal ways to watch... Netflix instant queue with HD streaming, iTunes store (which I love even though it's DRM laden), and all the great porn sites out there with HD content :)

And for music I buy almost everything off of Amazon, 100% DRM Free, super fast downloads, and I own it legally :)

who cares what some webmaster wants. all that matters is what the consumer wants.

you'd have to be living under a rock (or on gfy all day) not to notice hd as a major consumer selling point.

I think that this is a backwards way to look at it. If you film in HD, with just a little extra care and effort on set and for a marginal extra cost and time in post-production, you will be future-proofing your content and protecting your potential future revenue streams and your ability to re-purpose your content down the road. You can still always deliver a 4x3 low res version of your file to your existing user base, same as if you shot it in SD. And if shot correctly, if will look better than an actual SD video at the same bitrate. But if you shoot in HD- or hire a professional like me to do it who does it every day and has the workflow down- you will have a better quality widescreen master going forward, which may mean you will be able to deliver the quality and format of videos that future consumers expect, whether it be online, on BlueRay, broadcast tv, VOD, IPTV or any other platforms that come along.

sorry, but this is not true. DV AVI and HDV MPEG2 have the same filesize, mostly every at least 2 year old computer can handle HD editing and we didn't buy one single extra light or so for production just because we switched to HDV.

and with good encoding you can tweak the best ratio between picture quality and bitrate so that in my opinion 3000 kbit is enough for a 1280x720 resolution. and on top i offer 640x360 in 800 kbit for those who don't want to download but stream right away.

and honestly: downloading a 500 mb file is nowadays for 88% of the people a matter of a couple of minutes

From my point of view HD is worthless - when you shoot you got tons of space at the screen and just 20% of space with some action.I think 4:3 is far better for porn but true is that HD is the future so we have to follow the customers needs.
I shoot in HD but would rather stick with 4:3

:2 cents:

You can just add the words HD if you think it's a selling point. As long as the video is big and crisp, they have no idea.

Porn Consumer wise, if you tell people here are two movies, both are HD. All you do is tell them this file will take X amount of average time to download and the other, which is fake HD - less time to download.

The will view the fake one far more, rank it 5 stars, tell you it's the best HD on the market, and it be... totally fake.

What "we think" is HD - Is not what surfers think is HD.

The truth about marking ploys and the internet
 

1999-2002
Made millions of dollars convincing people that this was true:

http://nudebritney.org/video/britney..._blowjob_1.jpg



2002-now
Made millions of dollars exploiting the word bukkake and selling fake cum sites:

https://www.guerillatraffic.com/temp...estbukkake.jpg

now-whenever:
Pushing HD sites, even if its cropped video, as long as the quality is better than the tube sites, I'll be able to compete.

My point is this: the average person/surfer is a retard. You want the dumb gullable customer, why? Because they tend to believe anything and thus forget to cancel their membership. HD is just another "hook", nothing more. Our sites videos will be wide and crystal clear...hence we will call them HD. And the surfers will join.

Seems like the illegal gf sites are the "new celebrity". Edgy, risky...alot are fake, but who cares? You gotta follow trends, ride waves, and innovate when possible.

Assume this.... You shot the same scene for me, one in HD and one with a normal good camera. All other factors remain the same, lighting, the shoot, etc.

Now... you give me the master and I do the normal, web version, dvd version, vod, and even broadcast.

Web wise, without question I will make the same amount of money. HD does not make a site convert better or retain longer, that is extremely easy statistics to prove.

What it does do, is cost more.. more for me to store and more costs for me, each time a member uses one.

Now when we have 500 movies... the cost difference is going to be extreme.


Now out of those, broadcast is the only one that has 'one' company requires hd/blueray. The rest, don't care - because the consumer buys it at the same rate and it's sold as HD - when it's not really. Then, 99% of the porn companies, don't do this.

DVD - Again I can stick a HD stamp on it, the consumer has no idea. The store doesn't care, the distro doesn't care, the brokers don't care. Content sells if it's NEW and in series, popular, etc.. Not because it's HD or Not - as long as has quality.

Again, most people aren't converting to DVD, just like they don't go to broadcast, and most "online" producers, don't even do VOD.


The most popular production companies across the VOD networks, come from one of the biggest companies that fakes HD. But wait.. it's what the surfers want!


So after we are all done, you shooting in HD - I net no more money. It actually, took on costs. Having my content 5 years ago in HD - Makes no difference today. The content is still used, exactly the same way and purchased based on age and if it's popular.


Explain to me again, how HD is better?


BTW, I "totally" understand why people shoot in HD. I really have no problem with HD.


My point is... REAL HD isn't making you more money, more sales, it's not getting you on more mediums, and it isn't adding to your success rates, conversion rates, or retention. More people aren't buying porn, because of HD porn.

Exactly.. if there is a market for HD porn then it will sell. I think it's pretty obvious that it's selling. I think you guys complaining are missing the forest for the trees on that aspect.

The other thing is in the age of tubes and trying to compete with them, selling the HD option is one things the tubes can't offer at this point. You guys shouldn't be bashing this, you should be using it to your advantage.

:2 cents:

Correct, we do have a market for HD porn because HD has been so hyped up and HD TV is bad ass, sports at least.

The thing is, "surfers" don't know the difference between really HQ porn vs. HD Porn - other than they get HQ Porn faster online.

Real HD Porn sites, VOD, PPV, and DVD's .. real HD scenes, don't sell any better than high quality porn put on the same mediums, sold to the same people.

Actually, the 'fake' faster, smaller, Non-Shot-HD porn is some of the top selling titles across our Industry. Check the top selling lists on VOD Sites, less than 20% are marked HD. That's surfers telling you - what they want, and it isn't "real" HD.

The consumer... isn't "really" asking for "real" HD.... That's what I'm talking about.

Continue to bank on the public's ignorance and fail later down the line when the general public becomes more informed... It's the natural progression of things and you'll be stuck with no HD content while all your competitors are offering the same thing...

HD content NOW, while it's a minor selling point to many porn goers, will be another necessity down the line. Start preparing now or fall by the wayside.

Doc, you're ignoring my point and keep repeating wrong facts. unless you shoot real HD (which maybe 1 out of 100 people do) the filesize of DV AVI and HDV are almost the same. and when you encode both at 2000 kbit you also have the same filesize. storage costs are absolutely the smallest issue you have with HD.

you might be right about many other things though.

Too long to load? Not if the member is receiving it at 1000 KB/s which is the speed we deliver HD.

I'd agree user experience is everything. Be it a webmaster or an end user. Just yesterday I showed a sample of our stuff to a webmaster. He told me "it better be crystal"... Well, he was blown away at both the download speed and the quality.

Maybe the lack of HD hasn't gotten you any extra sales or distribution platforms- so far. But it may not stay that way forever. HD seems to be working for many others. Of course content doesn't sell simply because it is shot in HD. It sells because of how entertaining it is how sexy it is, how popular it, how niche it is and other factors. That's an obvious and trivial observation. Even if it were true that filming in HD didn't make you personally any extra money whatsoever at this point, I would still say you should consider shooting in HD. The extra cost of filming in HD and storing it and delivering isn't that significant at this point. And you are going to have a better quality, more pristine master forever. Why would you want to be stuck with a lower resolution original? You can still deliver it in low res 4x3 for the time being. And then, even if things change significantly in the near to medium term future and the next popular distribution platform perhaps *requires* 16x9, then you have it instead of being stuck with old school technology. Even if you discount all of that, I would still say that for me, if nothing else, the argument that HD "looks prettier" is reason enough to justify it.

I gotta agree with this.

Downplaying the importance of HD seems like walking backwards.
You can't even purchase a SD television any more. VHS is dead, and SD DVD is on the way out too.

Who was this "industry veteran".... Lawrence Connor? haha...

exactly the point. makes for beautiful and clear video when u shoot quality films.

who cares if you shoot shit. jerk films dont need to be in HD.

Soon you'll have to get drunk to be able to rub one out to porn :1orglaugh

Shoot all the HD you want... nobody can tell the difference anyway, nobody is going to know the difference in 5 years. AND... even if in 5 years it was all HD, a company could easily change over - and start from that point.

It's not like it's going to creep up on you and out of the blue make all old content null and void.


I love how HD is "the thing" with you people.. Yet surfers on tubes, pirated tubes, pirated forums, VOD sites that show most popular, stores, passwords crack requests, etc. aren't saying the same thing...

"Surfers" aren't backing up "YOUR" claims...


No reason to argue with me on this, you should be trying to convince your surfers, not me.

As a surfer I choose HD or something that is fast to load.

So companies spend nearly the same amount for a scene, why on earth would they shoot it in SD now a days? A solid HD camera is the same price a solid SD camera was 4 years ago. Surfers WANT HD. If someone has some solid statistics on them not wanting it I would love to see that.

Any consumer that goes out to buy a new tv is NOT looking for an SD set unless its in a room where the tv is just there for background noise, or they can't afford an HD set. So if a site has the same membership price, very like content niche wise, and one is SD and one is HD which one do you think they will pick? The one with higher quality video, or the one with SD video that seems to think the consumer doesn't really want a higher quality video? lol

I have stated many sources that prove what I said is correct. It would only take you 10 minutes of research to start finding out.

HD TV that plays HD sports & Movies is totally different than HD porn on your PC



Tested and Proven... Lay the same movie side by side. Call them Both HD. One really is, one is HD the other is faked at a high bitrate. Tell the surfer the file sizes.

Put a poll between them... ask which one do you like better.

Don't hype anything, don't say one is real and not, don't lead them. Just let a natural poll happen, watch the views/clicks and ratings.

Why does the non HD video win?

Or...

Take a tour, exact tour, call all videos HD. Put real HD up vs. cut down HD and/or fake HD. The "faster" loading site, will convert better. It has nothing to do with HD.

Looking at youtube for example. The only time I choose the non HD version of a video is if the site is loading slow. Other than that, I always refer the HD versions if they offer it. I'm sure I'm not alone and I'm pretty certain porn surfers look at it the same way.

BTW... My goal here wasn't to bash HD programs. Surfers will f'in buy anything if it's sold to them.

If the product is cool, unique, fast.. like what EvilChris has, surfers are going to eat it up and overall it will benefit him. BUT, that's what it's going to take! That's looking into the future.


I have no issue with anyone pushing or building HD sites. I have no reason to care. I'm not paid to care, what I was paid for was market research and part of the details got posted.

I had no agenda to show data one way or another.

The starting post and my point was the surfer has no idea. All you have to do is call it HD, and it is to them... and it's true.


Shooting REAL HD right now, will not make you more money and what you shoot 'today' will not be a factor in 5 years. Just like content 5 years ago isn't a factor today. At that, technology has changed 3 times in 5 years... we aren't done changing yet.


Don't take this is a bash people.. it's market research that was being shared. That's all.

Here is your error. Our HD videos load instantly with no buffering. Even on slower connections. So now what? lol

Really? cus I've always had problems streaming HD on my personal computer, always. I can't even get the 1080 to play smoothly when downloaded. Could you post a link to some previews?

how old is this research?

More than likely your computer not your connection. Hit me up on icq in a bit and Ill give you a link to try.

It was started last year and is still going on today. Gathering data, split testing, making polls.. in general, market research never ends or I will miss what the trend change is.

I do this across several programs, I manage polls for many. I get statistics shared with me. I make/request changes, and monitor the stats. We take user surveys, emails, and listen to feedback.

It would be nice if this is ALL I did, I have so much data, that I could spend a lifetime going through it.

This data is tested with over 500k 'fresh' sales, let alone rebills, traffic in general, etc.

You showed me your streams before, but I don't think you were done. Hit me up on ICQ, I would love to see it in action. 7765825

I just tested real HD, not a full size.. and I couldn't load it. I will admit it downloaded fast, but I couldn't get it to play on my pc. Sometimes I can, sometimes I can't.

Anyone who does not at least shoot is HD now is a fucking idiot. Period. :2 cents:

Anyone who wants the same demo I gave TheDoc this afternoon, let me know.

If you have 15 min from your day to spare, hit me up. ICQ 342827

A good way to have a discussion is to use terms without definning them...

From this discussion HD is very crap "tube" quality video and HD is slightly better....

This is a million miles from true HD even of the compressed Blu Ray format at 25,000 bits per sec.....

The films we shot widescreen SD still have to be compressed down to 2,000 bits per sec to run on punters computers.

It will still be many years before we could put SD quality films online.

Even now a lot of our members are still downloading the smaller files encoded at only 500 bps.

We shoot HD for various reasons...The camera is very good to use with proper focus, zoom and exposure. The films can be exploited longer and on different media from blu ray to DVD to internet.

The HD format allows more creativity with lighting, composition and editing....

The best format for the internet in our opinion is to use HD as the production tool, make the films in DVD images, upload them - members then download them from the internet, burn them onto DVD and show them on an upscaling DVD player to HD TV.
A 2 gig download will give them a one hour programme.

That will get them the best quality through the internet that is possible at the moment.

Of course that is not what will happen ....

HD will just be a lie to sell more product...

All of TEEN CASH content is shot in HD. If you have ever watched HDTV it makes regular def unbearable. If they have crappy bw connection they can always download the low res stuff.

Weird to read this thread now

Good advice

I work with both HD and SD and even 4K and to me it all comes down to marketing (as always). If you play up the HD angle (or the 4K angle) then you are targeting a particular audience, one that wants cutting-edge, the latest technology, etc. Of course, those people are younger and often do not pay for (free) porn....

Remember, "vintage" still sells, and sells well. Amateurs sell well. Sometimes SD is more appropriate for the marketing you are doing and the site in question.

But if you are shooting new content yes go with HD for all the reasons listed but you do not need to overtax your resources with HD, you can reduce the size.

I agree!!



I always like what you post. :thumbsup


Just Dave

The only thing I don't like about HD is the aspect ratio. It's a lot easier to compose porn shots in 4:3 than in 16:9.

punctuation......

1) Speaking for HD Cam, since Cam4 began offering HD stream and noting it on the site, with a separate link for models offering it, I reach the Top 5 viewership within 15 or 20 minutes, vs. a half hour to 45 minutes or not at all. As a "daddy" performer, I am unavoidably one of those with imperfect skin, and negative/troll comments have definitely gone up - BUT, my show income has almost doubled.

2) One solution I've seen a lot for HD video is to film your scenes flat.. This creates a slightly ghostly, ethereal feel to the finished product, which can be cool, and eliminates a lot of a model's blemishes and imperfections.

It can be a little tricky, and if you're married to a style that requires a lot of texture or color contrast (ominous, dungeon-y feel) then you won't like it. The key is to use your lighting all around to remove any shadow. For any extreme close-ups, position the camera at a medium range and zoom in instead of shoving the camera up close.

Then when you're editing, open the exposure or pull down the color saturation and contrast a little to "flatten" the image. You can compensate the washed out image a little by bringing up the color vibrance.

Your end product will have a different feel than you're used to, and it will look like a different director shot the scene. But, the method is highly effective for blemishes and wrinkles. I've only experimented with filming flat recently, haven't done any final product yet, but what I've done so far takes 10 years off of me.

I just had to quote this one for the giggles. 320x240 is small even for most basic phones now.

6 years later, what's your NEW opinion now.

My opinion is they surfers LOVE it and will PAY for it!

This thread delivers!