Ok, say you are a paysite owner? Where exactly is your money supposed to come from? Not just for the paysite owner, but for everyone else down the line. Now the money trail goes dead, where is the money to shoot new content supposed to come from. I guess you just stop production and just have a web full of old content and adult dating ads.

Shit, we are over half there now.

Only in this the only business could people be robbing each other blind and somebody thinks it is a good thing.

I just don't get it.

:Oh crap

Jay, I was aiming that at me because when I read my post back I came across as whining. :)

I don't know what to tell ya but, what I see is only a few sites sell and a lot don't. Now this is prob related to my traffic so this whole damn thing is moot.

I think the surfer is more picky in a nutshell and competition for paysites is through the roof.

I just signed up as I say for a CCBill prog (no I can't mention it) but it is new on the scene and looks good to me. With hungry young bucks getting into the paysite game it is great for me.

My business is finding winners. Simple as that.

And as RK open my eyes a bit.. I can run with the winds and promote who sells while a paysite venture is a hell of an undertaking.

I have always said publicly (and I use to name names) that I LOVE my sponsors who convert and of course I am dead loyal to them and them to me. As are you to your winners.

THAT is one of the nicer things about this game. The sponsor-affil relation is great when it is working.

I have no reason to bitch and no affil does. We can play the game with very little investment. And if we can invest thats even better.

So I appreciate paysite owners who could buy and sell me allow me to speak my piece as you always have. :thumbsup

Jay. Sorry I couldn't give you a more direct answer to your question. I would look like an even bigger fool if I start tackling complex problems like tubes ruining paysites ect.

I do know times are very tough out here in affiliate web land. I hope the paysite can survive because if it can't. I can't.

But I know the guys in this biz will get it done. They always have. And I'll continue following them as I always have.

This thread is an excellent read, very insightful really. Our income shrunk by 50% within less than a year as affiliates ( ie: we cannot live out of it ) Luckily ee are involved into other ventures that make up for the loss, but still are looking for new ideas to build up more for when the economy gets better.

Hit me up about some traffic trades. [email protected] or 62835707

Fact is the brightest minds in the world are in this biz. Everyone would want to stay at home in your shorts and earn a living.

I've got some schooling in Technology but most guys on this board could run cirles around me when it comes to modern wm'ing. I just survive because I've been around a while.

What i am saying is the brilliant minds in this biz competing for the big bucks on top (paysites) is a great thing for you and me who only want a little bucks. :)

As long as they SELL you and me contiune to live how we want.

Maybe being a low risk affil in such bad times isn't so bad. I can't imagine some of the real big companies who these tubes are hurting.

Some very passionate posts lately by brilliant guys who understand the biz. You can tell it's getting serious.

I'm going to be taking this advice.

Left you a message on you icq ;)

Damn it Nicky no! We want you around here. :)

C'mon we've seen Pr0s stats. I'd hide away too if I had half his stats.

OK I swear I'm going to quit posting now and do something this "day". :)

Aah fuck it I recently pulled some links it took me a month to install.

Might as well have been posting.

hate when that happens.

Oh well, GFY will still get It's share of Nicky love. I'm just going to work harder. :)

good tip :thumbsup

I hear ya man. I got so much stuff to do too. Gotta get some fuck off time in tho. Guy can only cut and paste so much. :)

We affils (or at least me) do this shit 7 days a week. So it may seem like I fuck off but I worked 6 days prior. ;)

Sausage, Damn nice post. Everything you said is true. I kind of got sidetracked by the CCBill thing but, it is encouraging to see guys give really decent posts that truely help out guys, esp affils, in this biz who are struggling now.

Ya know the guy who is willing to work should at least make enuff to get by.

Posts like that are, to me, why I come to GFY.

No response needed, I am not really hear to smooze or stroke anyone, but i do call am as I see em and that is a damn fine post.

ya im seeing this on the dozen or so paysites i manage. massive increase in declines, even on a 10 year old site ;)

YO CCBILL - MAN UP AND STRAIGHTEN THIS SHIT OUT.

The number of retards in this thread is about what I expected.

I didn't vote in the poll as there wasn't an answer that pertains to me. I'd choose something like "I'm still full time but yeah, sales suck."

On my best programs, ratios are approaching twice as bad as they were two years ago, and I get many many many fewer rebills than I did two years ago. The worst programs -- ones that used to provide solid sales at ratios I was content with -- simply don't make sales now no matter how much traffic I send them.

I consider this to be good advice, and I'm following it, but I'm aware there's an element of "whistling past the graveyard" in it.

Now, I should clarify that I'm not complaining. At my peak as an affiliate, I was only "working" about two hours a day and making twice (or more) as I ever made as a salaried professional. These days, I'm working something closer to a full time job, and still making enough to support my family comfortably -- and I'm not working anywhere near as hard as I'd have to do in a suit-and-tie office with a pointy-haired boss. It's night and day, and I'm still here chillin' in pants-optional land. I still love it, and my main concern is to make sure I can carry on in the face of the current unpleasant trends.

I should note that I'm also pretty close to the economy out in the meatspace world, because there's a long train of distaff relatives who are unemployed and *really* hurting; I'm hearing a lot of desperate "can I borrow eighty bucks to send on my car payment so they won't take my car before my unemployment check gets here" noises around here. Lest anybody here was not clear on this point, the mainstream economy really really really sucks right now.

I know we'll never see that old Red Rock Candy Mountain again, but there's no way in HELL things won't get a lot better for the survivors during the next economic boom cycle. It's just that we could do like Japan did, and take ten or more years to get there.

No shit... and being paid a commission of 50% on a 40 dollar membership will put food on the table for a week down there! Look how thin they are.. they are fucking hungry! :2 cents:

:1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

Good One.

It's the opposite. The fact is that the majority of big players got into this industry and made a killing, not by skill, but by luck and being unemployed at the right time. They might have very good technical expertise but have ZERO business expertise. It's very hard to lose money when you're working on thousand percent margins. Now capatilism has reared its ugly head and like any industry in history that started out with insane profits you have real competition. Competition breeds lower margins and less room for being a fuck up.

I'm sure my post will be swallowed by everyone else here but:

I came from mainstream to adult because I believe the entire industry has fallen behind in terms of user experience. For me, I see a way to take a percentage of the affiliate market through doing what I do best. If I didn't believe it, I wouldn't be here.

I'm not looking for an overnight success, my roadmap is planned out to a year from now and I don't plan on making any money other than to pay for the business expenses until around June of 2010...

but that's just me and no new road is every easy to traverse ;)

I think a lot has to do with the amount of paysites and porn out there i know i go to get all of my porn on the tube sites i do not have to join a paysite because i can find randy blue, corbin fisher, uk naked men, badpuppy content and any other type of stuff on a tube site for free what is even better is that i do not have to wait to get to the end of the movie clip i can just fast forward to the cumshot and move on to my next movie :)

I made $3.4 million as an affiliate in 2004 now in 2009 I made $6.4.... Dollars.

Here's where you guys are going wrong...

Go look at redtube.com and see the content there... Do you like it? Does it turn you on?

Well, if so... YOU are NOT who your customer should be... You like that stuff on these mainstream tubes and wanna promote it? You are FUCKED!!!

YOU ARE NOT YOUR CUSTOMER.... Not now anyway.

However, if like ME you go to redtube and tube8 etc and think most of the content is SHITTY... and you find it real hard to find the stuff you're into... You ARE your customer... And you just struck GOLD baby!

I'm doing a really SHITTY job of explaining the simple truth... You need to NICHE down.

Do the stuff that people can't find easily for free...

Target the sub niches.

Women in tights and stockings.

Toned women with really athletic bodies that are between the ages of 18 and 21.

Etc etc...

It's not new... it's as old as time...

But if YOU remember this, and act on this, you will do VERY well.

Go FUCK yourself!

Very well said.

I am like you. I look at most tubes, and there is not a single thing that gets me reved up. Poor quality. Not my thing. Too much of the same ole same ole. Whatever.

Bravo. :thumbsup

Nope... we're starting to see the turn around now...

2 years MAX and things will start to look better, maybe not for adult (because if you haven't figured it out, it's not the recession that's killing you) but for the economy certainly... I'd say start of 2011 and people will have started to forget the pain of this recession.

Optimistic? Maybe.

But I believe it.

I've started buying back into stocks and shares NOW... cos we're getting ready to ride again...

UK CBI says recession is OFFICIALLY over... won't be long now.

Shhhhhhhhhhh :upsidedow

I've seen a lot of people towing this line on GFY (most of whom have their own niche related agendas), but I have yet to see a clear example of this happening.

:2 cents:

Well then, my friend, send some Fellucia Blow's way and make some coin. :)

I remember back in like 2001 running around all blown out with those old schoolers that you hear about all the time.

Drunk in the streets of New Orleans, screaming "Traffic is King! Content is Queen!"

Whooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

Times have changed. Not many of those people chanting that are around today. Some retired, some lost it all, some ran off to Bangkok from the FBI, yadda yadda.

I'm not going into some crazy diatribe, but the world was not changed over night by Pornhub and Redtube and the like. These people have been trained by Youtube way before any porn tube site was even thought of. The majority of content has become valueless. Valueless in the eyes of professionals in the media space. People who know their shit. The new generation expects things to be free on the web now. Where the gap lies largely, is the expectation of ad supported networks. The adult business is very limited on what and/or who you can advertise. (I.E. Toyota isn't writing any of you a check). You can really only beat dating and cams so hard until you drown in the saturation of "Get laid in your city here".

Google some of the insights and published perspectives of some of the major tycoons in media if you want to see how the world is reacting. They're doing no better.

It's the world that's changing, not just the adult business. Nothing will be the same again, nothing. Ever.

You should hear the way that some of the mainstream affiliates are getting on about their space. Try promoting some of the verticals that they are. These guys are working for in many cases 20% of a sale. It's no better on the mainstream side of the fence if you don't know what you're doing.

Now, I'm not going to say adapt or die. It's far too generalized and overused. But I will say, look around, what will happen if you don't evolve to your new environment?

One thing is for sure; as one set of beliefs, techniques, and practices collapse, new opportunities to exploit the new consumer mindset are created. Taking full advantage of those new mindsets sometimes requires you to step back, take a deep breath, and take a look from the outside. Pioneering new approaches is essential. In the past few months I've seen some pretty crafty things going on out there to generate new cashflows. Take the time to look around carefully, not everything is what it appears to be. Something that you blow off as one thing may actually be another. I'm obviously not going to tell everyone how to make money in the new space because it's not yet done changing, just don't be afraid to stop. Stop and take a look around. A hard look around. Be open to the fact that you may need to make drastic changes in your practices.

One thing is for sure, the King has been overthrown. Content is no longer king, well, at least not in the mindset of the majority. We all know that people WILL pay for premium level products and products that can't be pilfered, getting in front of them and getting their ear and eyes for the time it takes to make the sale is now the trick.

Today, the chant is much different. Traffic isn't king anymore, traffic is the muffukkin pimp now, and content isn't queen, she's the muffukkin whore, and she's getting goon hand, pimp slapped all over the Interwebs right now.

Where do you want to be in 3-5 years as cheesy as it sounds? Wherever that is, what you're doing today, tomorrow, next week, next month, and on should be focused on that goal. Thinking short term cash and traffic grab anymore isn't an option, you need solid goals and milestones to gauge your progress.

Cash and traffic grab is over. Working harder and longer is what's on the menu. If you want to survive that is.

I'm no preacher so don't strike me down. Just a dude with an opinion.

:2 cents::)

its definitely not happening at the wealth level you are trying to get back to.

basically the advice from whoever that was is to hide in a closet with a niche you can own. that site barefootsies is trying to sell for $18k only brings in $1,400 a month (ya i saw that thread lol). $1,400 doesnt cover content, affiliates, marketing, blowjobs, etc. (although $18k probably *does* cover what he put into it.)

thats niche sales for you. sure if the marketing is targeted you'll have high conversion, but on what traffic? weirdos that enjoy the niche? it won't convert on the traffic you need to be working with to bring back the wealth (ie the traffic the tubes took over).

long ass thread and there's still no answer for what to do lol

One thing that I forgot to mention is this.

Much of the adult space and the businesses in it, was created by FOLLOWERS. There were very few people who actually created viable business models. Many, many people copied and mimicked what others did (I.E. It didn't take much intelligence to make money). Now, viable business models are few and far between and the intelligent LEADERS are not telling the FOLLOWERS how to do it, and/or the FOLLOWERS don't have the capital to support the overhead on the new business model, let alone come up with one on their own. I'm not calling anyone a dummy, but for some years, all you needed was 500 dollars, an Internet connection, and access to a Best Buy to get a crappy PC, and Whallla! You're a webmaster.

That's all.


P.S. - All peoples in this threads are very smarts, and I thinks that youz are ALLZ Jeanius's.

:)

yes, its the same in the mainstream world for most..

heres my crystal ball... the internet/brick & mortar is turning into a hybrid..

people want the internet for the introduction, but they want an actual human for the date..

if you understand what i mean (and no i am not talking about online dating) then you probably feel the same way..

find a niche and find a fit....

Good God Airek it will be 2010 before I can finish reading all of that!

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

Paraphrased: Adapt or Die :1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

:Oh crap:Oh crap:Oh crap:Oh crap

I made my first sale in January 2004, but didn't make enough to live on until early 2007, so I supplemented my income by programming and consulting for adult companies. I guess it just took me that long to figure it out.

Now I've got my shit together, this has been my best year ever, and this month should be a record month. I wasn't around for those easy money days, so all I know is that I work hard and the sales roll in.

My program does ok, but it only represents about 1/3 of my income, and I generate like 80% of the sales myself. I still consider myself an affiliate first and foremost, starting my own paysites was mostly to make more per sale on my own traffic :) Maybe when income from my affiliates becomes larger than my own, my perspective will change...

Anyway life is good and I am optimistic. Sometimes I'm glad I wasn't around 10 years ago, I never got spoiled with the easy money :winkwink:

very very very very very very well said!!!

That's such a wrong thing to say. Every guy I met when I started in the mid 1990's was razor sharp. And most of them became multi millionaires. And everyone of them that were successful were ALREADY successful. If you weren't there or running with the right folks then you just don't know what you're talking about and you're just theorizing.

For instance...I formed a partnership with AL4A in the mid 1990's. He had already made his first million owning several video gambling clubs. And the people that we did business with were all self made millionaires who had moved from brick and mortar to the internet because they are INNOVATORS. Not because they were "unemployed" or "lucky" as you theorize.

Don't believe myth and urban legend. The DUMB mother fuckers came into this business about 5 years after I did. They started coming in in droves after 2000. The original guys? Smart, fast, and rich.

You're putting words into my mouth. Where are my references to unemployed or lucky? I called them unintelligent and accused people of following the proven business models of others. I don't care to debate with you. I don't have the time to write novels all night like you do sometimes, although I do like reading your perspective on things, minus all the spam for claudia :winkwink: .

And, for the record I was there, AND I'm still here. And guess what, minus what I want people to know, NO ONE knows anything else I got goin on. :Oh crap Going on 11 years now. People know about me what I let them know. :winkwink:

And, what I said IS true. I never said what years anyone came or went, or where those lucky followers and mimickers got their 500 dollar computers.

WIth all due respect Robbie, I don't think you always need to run around telling people "When I did this....When I did that...." people know who you are. It doesn't read well.

I started in early 98, if you want to know. As for before that, I can't speak of it, nor did I reference any specific era. You know when the opportunists that lack much of the required intelligence to operate in this space arrived, and so do I. And, not all of them are followers. There are exceptions to everything.

That oughta do it. :thumbsup :)

Hey bro...with all due respect...I wasn't talking to you. I was quoting what Atticus said. Look at my post closer.

Will work for food.

Bahahaahahaha. I'm a dickhead. :thumbsup:error

Sorry man.

Epic fail.

Post fail pics now please.


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3579/...795db612_o.jpg

Thats what I get for skimming threads. Boooooooooooo!


LOLLLLLLLZ.

:error:error:error

No problem. I have no qualms with guys who have been around this biz for the length of time you have throwing insults my way. You have the right to. I consider you to almost be my equal. lol :1orglaugh

Seriously, no offense taken. You thought I was attacking your point of view but as you see...I wasn't. :) Let's hug it out bitch.

Oh by the way...did I mention Claudia-Marie.Com???

I just icq'd ice to change every users name on GFY that starts with an A to something else, because that's as far as I read.

Who Moved My Cheese?

read it........:2 cents:

Doesn't mean a thing to this situation. The "cheese" was NOT moved. It is being given away for free.

to the guy moaning there's not enough money in sub-niches... bullshit.

And you don't start and stop with one... You have to control 10 or 20 and you'll have a small empire.

Get entrenched.

Oh and eventually, will you have to adapt or die? Yup.

But that's what I'd do, right now...

Well put pr0.

LOL...that's me. We are as sub-niche as you can get lesbian foot fetish, black creampie, asian crempie, black lesbians, super fat, medium fat, orgies of every race...hell, we even have some midget shit coming out. It does alright. Give it around anothe 2 weeks and there will be tube sites for those niches and that will be gone too.