Originally Posted by Pleasurepays (Post 16360811)

The pathetic reality is that arguments about "tubes" are NO DIFFERENT than every argument that's existed since day on in this biz.

Everyone has always blamed everything else for their own failure. The reality is that this is a business that has evolved and changed very rapidly, as has technology, content, content delivery, connection speeds, market tastes/user expectations, copyright issues, user now having many experiences as members (bad and good) and so on.

There is not other industry on this planet that has/and has had a more adversarial relationship with its own market/customers. The mantra in 97/98/99 etc was "surfers are stupid"... and although that mentality has faded some, people in this industry seem to still seem to feel that they can dictate to users what they will get, rather than focusing on giving them what they want.

Be honest with yourself. Where do you surf for porn? sleazydream.com? Of course not. What fucking moron would? You head right to where you can get what you're looking for, without games, without deception, without blind links. Then at the same time, you act like tubes are unfairly killing your shitty, deceptive, unfriendly sites.

Pornhub/keez/tube8 are still kicking ass in Google and have been for a couple years now. WHy? Do you care? Do you know? They've been putting in the work right in front of your face. They've been buying up links where they can, they've been doing very clever trades and building up other sub networks. They have MANY copies of their tube sites, on other domains that i don't see people complaining about. And you worry about them stealing? Stealing or not stealing has nothing to do with the fact that they are sucking up search traffic.

The idea that pornhub.com owns the top "porn" phrases in Google because of "stolen content" is laughable. If you believe that, you have no business owning a website. They have embarked on a very aggressive and well thought out and well managed linking campaign for several years now. They owned you. Period. You can bitch about "stolen content" and you won't change the fact that their visitors have NOTHING to do with "stolen content". Their search traffic won't change one bit tomorrow (to tube8, keez etc) based on whether or not a video is licensed to them or not. They will still be kicking your asses in the SERPs.

This business has always been its own worst enemy. And while everyone is arguing about law, virtue, morals, ethics or whatever the fuck... there has NEVER been a shortage of people to slide in, break every rule and dominate while you morons preach from your soap box.

TGP's, MGP's and link lists are dead. Not today... but they are dying. They aren't going to one day suddenly become "not dead" anymore than horses are going to become the primary mode of transportation again. Are you really so detached from the customer that you can't understand that people would rather go right to a video site and watch what they want than spend 20 minutes clicking around your shitty sites, being redirected, clicking 80% blind links etc? Really? You can't understand that?

... and those that have accepted that massive change is happening that they can't keep up with... can only blame one last thing for their failure... "stolen content" - but the fact remains that pornhub.com, tube8.com, keezmovies.com and a few others will remain at the top of the SERP's because they are kicking your asses with basic SEO... not because a site has stolen content on it. The sooner you accept that, the sooner you will be able to admit to yourselves that you have some work to do, or that maybe you should move on and spend your time doing something that will yield a return, ... maybe construction or something.

Originally Posted by Agent 488 (Post 16361056)

bounce rates are not as big a factor as people think, if at all.

there are tgps and other sites that rank well too, but guess what, they are everywhere also busting their asses seo-wise.

the tubes-rank-well-due-to-bounce-rates is a cop out.

Originally Posted by Libertine (Post 16361153)

Right now, bounce rates are already a fairly big factor. In the future, that will only increase. Moreover, tubes also get more truly organic links, since surfers are more inclined to post links to stuff they truly enjoy.

The "SE rankings are all about SEO" bullshit is one of the reasons so many people in this business are failing.

Search engines try to give the most relevant sites the best rankings. SEO is about either displaying your relevance to the search engines or faking relevance. However, if a site has the benefit of actually being relevant, it will always have a basic advantage. Given equally valid SEO strategies, the most relevant site will almost always come out on top.

For surfers, the illegal tubes provide the most relevant content. As SE algorithms continue to improve, their advantage will continue to grow.

That is why legal tubes featuring only 2-5 minute clips have no chance in hell of winning the battle. The ones featuring long vids not only get bookmarked and shared more by surfers, they also get better rankings as the search engines continue to improve.

The path from CJs to linklists to TGPs to MGPs to blogs to tubes wasn't a coincidence, nor is it reversible. Centralized high-quality content is the golden standard of popularity. Because in the end, what matters is relevance. Give surfers more of what they want and they will almost inevitably end up coming to you in great numbers.

Originally Posted by mpahlca (Post 16361151)

Love whoever posted that they live in the US genious comment really know what you are talking about fantastic keep up the great detective work.

Originally Posted by Stardust_ (Post 16361106)

You're saying "stolen content" isn't the reason why Tubes are better than TGPs... well no shit you fucking clown...

The STOLEN CONTENT affects the PAYSITES that don't get nearly as much sales / conversions due to STOLEN CONTENT on Tubes... nothing to do with TGPs you fucking bozo the clown :1orglaugh:1orglaugh

Originally Posted by Libertine (Post 16361153)

Right now, bounce rates are already a fairly big factor. In the future, that will only increase. Moreover, tubes also get more truly organic links, since surfers are more inclined to post links to stuff they truly enjoy.

The "SE rankings are all about SEO" bullshit is one of the reasons so many people in this business are failing.

Search engines try to give the most relevant sites the best rankings. SEO is about either displaying your relevance to the search engines or faking relevance. However, if a site has the benefit of actually being relevant, it will always have a basic advantage. Given equally valid SEO strategies, the most relevant site will almost always come out on top.

Originally Posted by Shap (Post 16360586)

I say either do something or shut up.

Originally Posted by Pleasurepays (Post 16361273)

first, i was talking about the constant bitching about tubes as being the source of all problems in adult.

Originally Posted by Pleasurepays (Post 16361273)

second, that's total bullshit. show me reality kings content on tube sites. you can't. now show me that reality kings converts 10 times better than similar paysites WITH their content on tube sites. you can't. that correlation doesn't exist.

Originally Posted by Pleasurepays (Post 16361273)

third, people do shit loads of pay site sales from tube sites... and the traffic converts.. which again, contradicts every point made against tube sites.

Originally Posted by gideongallery (Post 16361319)

do the same seo on both, get the same quality inbound links and see which one ranks higher

the full movie will rank higher every time.
google and bing both consider bounce rate in the equation. people going to a page and hanging out for 10 minutes makes google think the page is more relevent.

Originally Posted by BradM (Post 16361333)

Originally Posted by BradM (Post 16361333)

Originally Posted by Agent 488 (Post 16361219)

try to rank for for a competitive porn keyword without a multi-year sustained incredibly aggressive seo campaign and just rely on your killer bounce rate and surfer links then. good luck with that.

give me a break. save that shit for the noobs at dp.

Originally Posted by Agent 488 (Post 16360675)

because people know how to make money with brazzers and don't know how to make it with tubes.

Originally Posted by Stardust_ (Post 16361328)

I don't think anyone thinks tube sites are the source of ALL the problems in adult. If they do, they're fucking stupid. But I think it's more so that you have a problem differentiating between 'serious' remarks against tubes, and sarcastic ones.



Doesn't matter. Paysites are affected in two ways. Yes, I believe keeping your (full length/hq) off tube sites WILL keep your conversion rates higher, if complimented with sample tube videos / legit affiliate links / other means of good marketing. But you've missed part of the point here. The fact that illegal tubes exist in general (whether they specifically host your content or not) still provides surfers with a quick fix to jacking off while they're horny as opposed to taking out the creditcard. If you run: lame-reduntant-uncreative-realitykings-program here, and keep your content off tubes, your conversion rate may still be down because even though a surfer can't access your content directly of washedup-overused-slutwhore-pornstar there, they can access other scenes of washedup-overused-slutwhore-pornstar from some other scene where the webmaster didn't decide to complain to the tube to get it removed.



Okay so I guess you're an illegal tube site owner then? Find his IP and get'em guys!!!.... how do you know that? Do you have access to stats? I'm sure tube sites make sales... when you pound your site with millions of hits of traffic, you're bound to make a couple hundred a day per banner/affiliate. The conversion ratios are actually horrid, but with that kind of volume, you're still making some money (but not as much as you are on advertising).

I had a friend that was running a pretty big tube site a few years back, not sure what his deal is now, but back then he was making incredible amounts of money off CPM advertising because his tube had so much traffic... of course he'd make SOMETHING off affiliate links, but the conversion rates were horrible, even in comparison to a spammy misdirecting TGP.

Originally Posted by Toma (Post 16360589)

sig spot .

Originally Posted by pr0 (Post 16360831)

It's a perfect storm right now against existing sites/webmasters.

1) Bandwidth is becoming cheaper in 3rd world countries. More people are "webmastering" & saturating existing methods like never before.

2) Bandwidth is becoming almost "free" at high levels at hosting companies. Where it used to cost a host $30mbps, then to $20, then to $15....then to like $8 last year. And now most hosts are paying maybe $4mbps (retail) for the highest end providers. If they push even a little volume. The biggest hosts will soon be paying $0.50.

3) SE masters have set up their own tube sites. This has the biggest impact on organic SE traffic/relating to conversions on free porn keywords. People like 3pic (who runs tube8 etc), who have owned the best keywords for years, now run full length video sites & surfers only really need to bookmark 1 page now for EVERYTHING. Let me say this again....3pic & his network, are some of the best search engine guys in the world (especially with teen keywords). I am just using them as an example though. But as a search engine guy myself, I have a lot of respect for what 3pic/tube8 has been able to do with organic search. I do NOT player hate.

The search engine masters will not be able to run the show forever though. As more "legal" tube sites open on decent domains, surfers will be sent to 2min vid clips, which is no different than the old MGP style sites & the prevalence of tubes (as related to search engine queries) will become less diluted.

I think people just need to keep their head down & ride out the storm (by working hard & shutting up). If you want to do something about it.....set up your own legal tube with 1-2minute clips. Start getting your piece of organic search traffic & it will dilute the effectiveness of the illegal tubes. You can do the same exact thing with traffic trading & tube sites :2 cents:

Originally Posted by Libertine (Post 16361153)

Right now, bounce rates are already a fairly big factor. In the future, that will only increase. Moreover, tubes also get more truly organic links, since surfers are more inclined to post links to stuff they truly enjoy.

The "SE rankings are all about SEO" bullshit is one of the reasons so many people in this business are failing.

Search engines try to give the most relevant sites the best rankings. SEO is about either displaying your relevance to the search engines or faking relevance. However, if a site has the benefit of actually being relevant, it will always have a basic advantage. Given equally valid SEO strategies, the most relevant site will almost always come out on top.

For surfers, the illegal tubes provide the most relevant content. As SE algorithms continue to improve, their advantage will continue to grow.

That is why legal tubes featuring only 2-5 minute clips have no chance in hell of winning the battle. The ones featuring long vids not only get bookmarked and shared more by surfers, they also get better rankings as the search engines continue to improve.

The path from CJs to linklists to TGPs to MGPs to blogs to tubes wasn't a coincidence, nor is it reversible. Centralized high-quality content is the golden standard of popularity. Because in the end, what matters is relevance. Give surfers more of what they want and they will almost inevitably end up coming to you in great numbers.

Originally Posted by Shap (Post 16360586)

Ok my last thread didn't go over too well :anon so I thought I'd start fresh with my main points. I'm really not good at getting my point across especially when it's touchy subjects. My natural tendency is always to try to get a rise out of people and that usually doesn't work out too well lol.

Tubes that steal content piss me off and are bad for the industry. You will never hear me argue otherwise. I personally believe they exist because of the DMCA loophole. I may be wrong but I think if they didn't have the DMCA law to hide behind things would be very different. Unfortunately for the time being that is what they get to hide behind.

The sad thing is the majority of people complaining this week about tubes have done nothing but complain for 3 years now. I know complaining on GFY is the easiest and quickest way to feel you've contributed. But really it does nothing to help push the industry away from allowing these guys to exist. That was the point I wanted to get across in my last thread. Enough complaining already. I say either do something or shut up. If you feel these guys are that bad then start boycotting. Boycott every company running these type of tubes. Boycott every company sponsoring these tube companies. Be public about your boycott. Instead of spending time refreshing threads on gfy spend that time getting more people together to fight the cause you are putting forth. If you are fair and decide to deal with absolutely no company that deals with these sites then you may get somewhere. If the group grew to 50 to 100 affiliates that refuse to do business with anyone sponsoring tube sites (or go even further and not do business with anyone who does business with those that sponsor these tube sites) then you may get somewhere.

There is one problem with that type of boycott and one reason it hasn't happened. The companies that are working with tube sites, generally speaking, have the best content and they are the companies affiliates really want to work with. I think it goes without question that Brazzers, Reality Kings, Bang Bros, Naughty America, Twistys, Nubiles, Ftv Girls all produce some of the best content online today. The reality is when you are spending the type of money we are on content sitting back you can't sit back and watch your content get raped on these tube sites. Not only would our content be raped but our competition would be snatching up valuable branding space. It's nice to be the one guy who takes a stand in the industry but this is a business.


Now here is my question to you guys...

Why is it ok for Brazzers to skin the board (and sponsor gfy) but a TrafficJunky skin is not ok?

Originally Posted by Davy (Post 16362536)

I think it's weird that people like to call out "illegal" tubes, while they support the legal ones.

What we are witnessing is a case of external effects that affect everybody in the market.

I think we can all agree that a "legal" site like bigtube (I am assuming all their videos are licensed) can give away as many 25+ minute clips as they want. If they think they can sell the HD versions while giving away the low-res videos for free... let them do that.

But this business practice has an adverse effect on everybody's business.
Both the LEGAL and ILLEGAL tube sites are hurting this business.

Originally Posted by Davy (Post 16362536)

I think it's weird that people like to call out "illegal" tubes, while they support the legal ones.

What we are witnessing is a case of external effects that affect everybody in the market.

I think we can all agree that a "legal" site like bigtube (I am assuming all their videos are licensed) can give away as many 25+ minute clips as they want. If they think they can sell the HD versions while giving away the low-res videos for free... let them do that.

But this business practice has an adverse effect on everybody's business.
Both the LEGAL and ILLEGAL tube sites are hurting this business.

Originally Posted by mpahlca (Post 16361151)

Love whoever posted that they live in the US genious comment really know what you are talking about fantastic keep up the great detective work.

Originally Posted by wargames (Post 16362060)

We have a legal tube site and it out ranks a lot of the illegal ones. :winkwink: