If you need to kick ass ok BJJ it is.

For further mind and body development check out Tai Chi, Nai Gong , Chi Gong , Bagwa and Kung Fu.

There are few but true grandmasters will know the correct forms. Some like Ocean Form going 4 hours from beginning to end.

Sorry, I thought a guy who was a bad ass could beat a trained fighter, wasn't that what you said?

YOU FORGOT TO MENTION FRANK MIR WHO TAPPED OUT TANK IN LESS THAN A MINUTE.


TOTAL Strawman argument. You don't fight, or train for that matter. So how would you know what works? There's a reason why the three main martial arts used in MMA are Muay Thai, Wrestling, and BJJ. Because they have proven to be effective over any martial art in their ranges, Striking (Muay Thai), Clinch/Takedown (Wrestling), and Submissions (BJJ). So kindly shut the fuck up over your red herrings that have ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with fighting.


A 170lbs man who beat 250 plus fighters, a Ken Shamrock who trained submissions, and was already King of Pancrase in Japan. How did he do it? Gracie Jiu Jitsu, plain and simple. Grappling beats striking in their ranges 9 times out of 10. It's been proven, go to your local BJJ gym and try it out for yourself. I took my biz partner to a BJJ class tonight courtesy of Just Dave XXX and opened his eyes to BJJ.


Your analogy is both lacking and idiotic. You are comparing a football game to combat. Which shows both your stupidity with regards to the subject, and your lacking in cohesive debating.

BJJ which was used and reigned supreme in the FIRST 4 UFC's, the early PRIDE FIGHTING CHAMPIONSHIPS, and any other fighting org in the early days of MMA. To be a complete fighter in MMA you must be learn BJJ, or Sambo, and Ne Waza heavy Judo. In fact, there are more champions in the UFC with BJJ Blackbelts than any other style. Including the rek neck fave, and yours Brock Lessnar. Why is that? Game over, you lose.

Brock Lessnar - Purple Belt BJJ

Why would Brock need BJJ? Oh yeah, he got fucking submitted by knee bar by Frank Mir, a BJJ Black Belt in their first fight. Guess he learned he needed it.

Light Heavyweight - Lyoto Machida - BJJ Blackbelt

Middleweight - Anderson Silva - BJJ Blackbelt

Welterweight - Georges St. Pierre - BJJ BLackbelt

Lightweight - BJ Penn = BJJ Blackbelt

Give it up, you lost.

cool guys you really into martial arts... though I'm not into it!

Yes. Not in an "official school", but one of my best friends was a hand-to-hand instructor at Quantico for almost a year.. he's taught me quite a bit.

I think what he taught me was slightly "modified", but still.

Anthony you're an asshole who is incapable of having a reasonable discussion, so go fuck yourself.

You're so full of yourself and your own opinions that you can't see how fucking ridiculous some of the things you say are.

Welcome to my ignore list.

kthxbai

Oh my getting heated in here.

I feel like fightning now!

Definition = Lenny got showed up as an ignorant fuck on the subject.

To say one art form is better than another is either incorrect or bullshit. I have studied Tang Soo Do which is a Korean martial art. Its very much like Tai Kwon do but with a different style including a little weapons training.
I have also studied Muay Thai of which I still ended up using lots of Tang Soo Do in the ring. I was raised with the Tang Soo Do, So obviously its hard to forget the style, not that I would want to.
I believe its the fighter or the person training that makes the art an art.

I do like the look of the art of Shaolin. If you have studied some form already, why not try the Shaolin. But I would suggest, in future, at least reach the beginning curve of your training, Black belt, before giving up or trying something different.

Good luck with your training & keep fit!

Holy shit, is Brock a purple belt already? I need to get back to the gym or I'm going to hold the world's record for longest time spent at blue...:(

I'm currently at 2 years, and will be probably another 2 years before purple. :(

Empirical Data. Where a skinny 170lbs Brazilian showed the world that his family fighting was the Ultimate.

Anthony know his shit, why you guys even disputing him? As far as whats most effective it totally depends on the person? I mean how unconventional is Machida, you never know what's coming. It's what works for you. If you want purely sport then maybe synchronizd swimming is for you, or rollerblading butif to truely be a well rounded fighter then you cant really deny anything until youve exhausted its resources. You can take a little from everything, even if its something NOT to do.

Whores!

True Karate isn't about points fighting and can be great training Kyokushin, Shotokan ect would be my picks. BJJ and other ground fighting arts are a great compliment to these styles to cover some ground work skills. Personally I'm not a huge fan of Muay Thai but I know it works well (just not for me) Aikido is a great choice for weapons training.

Try out lots of different style and studios and see what fits you, everyone is different.

I took Russian Martial Arts classes in Toronto. And it's called Systema Fighting.

Hey, CYF, thanks for becoming my gfy friend. I saw your friend request in my control panel and I accepted it.

I used to teach Kenpo (KaJuKenFu system). It's the best for real life street fights and not that crappy flashy tae kwon do. I started with tae kwon do and quickly found out it's more flash unless it's coupled with other things.

no problem man :thumbsup

Systema sounds pretty neat, just read the wiki article on it.

Do a search on systema and Bullshido in google. Read what you find. Not even worth it.



What a joke.

What is sort of funny is as an outside observer of this thread who did not even peak into it until it was over 3 pages long I gathered a lot of information and had it almost figured out to a T as to what would go down.

1. The OP was already dead set on the Krav Magi, even though he listed it second in his interest list. He was just fishing for and hoping to get additional reassurance that it was the correct style and that it also was cool enough to work in a real fight.

2. Already a given Anthony along with several other people on GFY know a shitload more on styles, fighting, and training than the rest of us. Yes they lean towards BJJ and for a reason. They however flat out 100% diss other styles, unless the person asking could end up in serious trouble. I personally would be all over telling someone to learn TKD - assuming you are interested in form, discipline, and general sport. Not saying it could not save your ass if you got into it with someone. Just as a pure fighting style out of the realm of sports it has lots of limitations and tradition.
Either way Anthony is a real nice dude, knows his fighting, knows the lifestyle and is far from a dick.

3. I saw a lot of my dad is better than your dad shit about to be posted and of course that also happened.

4. Knowing that the OP was already dead set on Krav Magi, I knew he would take 100% issue with how MMA or what he popped in on uses a boxing ring and how that seemed like training for competition. No real mention that it too is at full speed, well with one big glaring difference. No full body pads.
After all Krav even sounds cool on wikipedia. I am also not trying to bust your balls. Hell do whatever makes you feel good and gets you into shape. If you learn some stuff along the way even better. I would just be a tad more honest with yourself. You came into this thread and even the schools with a preset notion.

Personally my father was the only one seriously into martial arts. Switched from TKD to Jeet Kun Do in Oakland a few years before I was born. He stopped all forms of martial arts latter in my life after he was hit in the chest with a swinging I-Beam while welding a couple stories up. He landed mostly on his hips and lower back. Pretty much ending any serious martial arts plus my biological mother (more of the real cause of why he quit it all than the accident) wanted him to have nothing to do with it. I just know he was one of the fastest guys I ever knew (yes my dad) and chest wise as strong as fuck. I often laughed as his appearance cause he reminded me almost of a he-man doll. Had a huge barrel chest, normal head, big arms, and a tiny waist with no butt and thick legs. Well anyways he left that world behind and did the dad thing. Even turning down some movie work because at the time it was huge business and skills were in demand.

I have mad respect for BJJ... But it IS NOT the end all fighting style. I don't care what these so called fighters in this forum say.

Controlled situations is not fighting... period, point, blank - it's training.

If you want to fight for sport, cool.. please do. But recognize and understand - ITS A SPORT - for a reason.

It does not mean it's the best, and being a black belt does not make you a bad ass, it does not mean BJJ is the best.. It means "ITS LIMITED" by RULES.. and based on the current rules, BJJ is the best - but still limited.

Remember that....

Doc, you know I have mad respect for you, we are talking self defense options here, but in reality you are a true warrior and put your life on the line on the battlefield for our country.

The rules of BJJ follow BJJ's philosophy, positional dominance. That's what makes BJJ so effective, we train the same way we fight, and compete.

To explain further, here are the points system used that illustrate why BJJ translate well from sports to self defense/fighting.

Backmount = 4 points
Mount = 4 Points
Knee on Belly = 3 Points
Side Control = 2 points
Sweeps from bottom = 2 points
Take down = 2 points
Submission = Win

An old Gracie Jiu Jitsu video of BJJ vs Hapkido shows you that positional dominance of Mount controls the fighter, and then setups up the submission. Rorion gives a great breakdown on the efficacy of Gracie Jiu Jitsu.

If you are using BJJ in competition it is limited by rules, but in a self defense situation why would a BJJ practitioner have to abide by the rules of sport fighting? They don't, and they can play just as dirty as the other guy.

When people try and make the argument that BJJ is not effective in street fighting, they also try and revert to things like eye gouging, groin shots, biting, and other "dirty" techniques. Or they make some silly assertion that there is some other devastating technique that they could use that isn't permitted in sport fighting or MMA. The truth is the one technique that is not permitted in MMA that is any kind of an equalizer is the headbutt, and a BJJ practitioner is way more likely to use that than the average guy. In the early UFC's Royce Gracie used the headbutt frequently.

As far as fighting style BJJ IS the end all, and if you know a more effective one I'd love to hear what it is. Of course the best combo of styles would be BJJ, Muay Thai, and wrestling, and if they took all the rules out of MMA and made it truly anything goes again, those three styles would still regin supreme. There is nothing else out there, with maybe an exception to judo, that can even compare.

Now if you are trying to go a step further, no style can help you against multiple attackers, and a smart person would avoid those situations at all costs, even running the hell away if that is the only option. No style is going to help you against a gun either, and the best means of self defense would still be getting a concealed carry permit and carrying a firearm. Being a BJJ blackbelt obviously won't help you against an opponent with a firearm, but BJJ also doesn't teach disarming an opponent with a gun like a lot of the bullshit martial arts out there...

I'm embarrassed to say I am pushing 5 years with no end in sight. Where I currently live there are very few options, and the options I do have aren't very good. Right now I'm at Ohio Valley MMA, but it is far from ideal. I could go back to Next Level Fighting, which is well over an hour drive away, or I could go to a few places in Pittsburgh, which is an hour and a half away, but those are my only options. There is a good possibility I am moving out of this area next month, and if I do the place I am moving back to has several really good options, so I will get my ass back on track then...

Yup, I did some basic research and found two styles that I was interested in. Came here for opinions and suggestions from people that might have taken them, or could suggest another style. I was actually more set on kenpo, though.

Anthony and I kind of butted heads here in the thread on the first page. I didn't understand what he was trying to say about the BJJ guys being in better shape than the kenpo guys, and when it was said a different way, I understand now. I have respect for Anthony and his martial arts knowledge.

This is GFY, of course that would happen :1orglaugh And btw, my ninja kitten can beat up your ninja kitten :winkwink:

I was actually more set on kenpo when I first posted the thread. People posted their opinions, and even the guys that took kenpo said to take something else. I checked out a school and didn't really like what I saw there.

The krav maga class didn't use full body pads, they used hand pads. Hit the hand pads bare handed, just like striking a punching bag. Same thing I saw the muay thai people doing. There's even some grappling involved in krav maga, but like I posted earlier, I'll be taking everyone's suggestion and also doing BJJ after a while..

The muay thai and krav maga that I checked out both look pretty effective, and I liked both places. I liked krav maga a little better though. Krav maga was also closer to me, it fit my schedule better, and it was cheaper for lessons.

That is a stupid comment...

First : Royce wasn't the best of the gracies. He was chosen for many reasons, including his marketability. He was fighting agaisn't heavyweight olympic wrestlers for christ sake, he wasn't a better fighter then they were... he was more technical from his back.

Second : The gracie BJJ aera lasted for quite some time. At the time it WAS the best system at the because people wouldn't know how to defend it.

Put a BJJ blue belt agaisn't a TKD black belt, the blue belt wins 90 % of the time. Joe Rogan himself, who is a TKD black belt, said himself that TKD was almost totally useless in a fight agaisn't a skilled MMA fighter.

If you are street fighting, you take way less chances of getting it if you're a wrestler/bjj guy.

I don't question how bad ass BJJ is... don't get me wrong. Even though we both know it isn't very nice on your body. :)

I saw a guy drunk guy get mounted by a Marine once (MP), the drunk guy kept yelling get off, you could see he didn't like being pinned.

The next thing I knew, the guy on the ground had moved the guy forward just enough to get his teeth on the inside of his legs. He let go only after someone cracked on the head with an asp.

Before that, the Marine pounded his head trying to get him to release, the guy reached in his pocket during his pounding, pulled out a 3 inch pocket knife and stabbed the marine 3 times in the back.

That's when he got asp fucked.

When the control switch pops.... you have no idea wtf will go down, you haven't ever trained for it. Black belt, newbie, holding a gun.. .it makes no difference.

That's why it's so deadly.

I agree Doc, the only difference I would put in is that in a self defense situation, unless we cannot get the other guy on the bottom, we fight on our back. Once we get top position, we rain down bombs, we dont' hold a person down. If that isn't what's needed, we get up and run. Holding someone down isn't what BJJ is about.

Nobody can beat a gun, and for all the knife training I've done, I know I can't beat someone with a knife intent on stabbing you.

This truly was all in like... the guy came at him, buddy took him down. Nothing that aggressive, just on the ground ready to cuff. He turned to his side, get off me, get off me.. not even fully, the Marine slid forward, truly like an inch.. the guy turned his head just a small bit.

And it happened.. the guy latched on, got nailed a few times, turned over and the knife happened. That wasn't even noticed until afterward.

And this was bad ass fast.... I was prob 15 foot way when he hit the ground, I was 14 foot way when the screams started to happen.


I saw a guy get his nose bit off, another got a bottle broken over his face, our instructor got laid out and damn near boot fucked because he wouldn't back off someone that couldn't take it anymore.

I fear the switch in people.

To me it looks like that Fedor fellow is waiting for the switch to snap.

I had my first krav maga lesson today. Shit kind of kicked my ass :1orglaugh Class was harder and more of a workout than TKD ever was for me. I think it'll be a good fit for me.

A lot of kung foo mastas

A Hundie and a Fiddy.
:pimp

Sig.

151 ninjas :thumbsup

class was pretty intense, the warm up really got my heart going. We learned the basic stance today, and the basic kick and punch along with an elbow strike. Practiced each with a partner. at the end of each class they do a group exercise to get you used to fighting multiple people and perseverance to not give up. Today's exercise had everyone in a circle and you had to punch elbow and kick everyone surrounding you.

It was quite the workout for a first lesson, kind of kicked my ass. I really enjoyed it, ended up signing up for classes twice a week.

The thing is, everyone knows TKD is pure bullshit and worthless from a self defense perspective. For some reason though it's the red herring that every BJJ person pulls out of their ass to "prove" that all other martial arts are inferior.

I'm not gonna get into the weeds with you on this, I put Anthony on ignore for that very reason, I could give a fuck who studied what under whom and who pinned whom and armbarred whom and therefore BJJ'ers have bigger dicks than everyone else blah blah blah.

I'm just trying to say, put things into perspective.
I'm pretty sure we can all agree that the best fighter will have a solid grasp of both striking and grappling. If you're really good at one but suck at the other, then you're at the very best an incomplete fighter.
As far as I know, there is no striking in BJJ.

So all I'm saying is that it's possible that a person who is studying martial arts for purposes other than to be a professional MMA fighter, could be better off studying something that teaches both grappling AND striking, as well as other things, even if on an individual basis it's grappling is inferior to BJJ and it's striking is inferior to Muy Thai.
For the casual student wanting some self defense skills and physical fitness, it's possible that they'll be better off with something else.

Of course, some people have BJJ tourette's and if you bring up anything other than BJJ in a martial arts or self defense discussion, then you're an idiot and a pussy and you're destined to get your ass beat, and of course if you're talking to Anthony then you're in for a name dropping orgy that even KB couldn't keep up with.

Again Snake Doctor, aka Lenny2, aka Ignorant Fuck talks shit about a subject he has no clue about. There are numerous examples on the web of BJJ being superior, UFC 1 - 4 opened up EVERYONE's eyes that you need BJJ to become a complete fighter. Being able to throw punches or kicks got your ass beat. But keep digging your head up to your fourth chin about that Lenny, you've been proven to be an idiot, it won't change a thing.

More history and facts for Snake Doctor, MMA came from VALE TUDO from BRAZIL. GUESS WHO CAME OUT ON TOP OF THOSE FIGHTS MORON? That's right, Jiu Jitsu. Guess what, BJJ has punches.

There are three types of Jiu Jitsu.

1. Gi - Complete Submission based, no strikes

2. No Gi - Complete Submission based with no strikes

3. Vale Tudo - Some BJJ Schools have a Vale Tudo/MMA program.

Your ignorance knows no bounds. As for pussy who's going to get my ass beat, it sure won't be from your fat, no training, pissed off at being a bitch ass..