That's strange that WAMU would use MC. The very first "real" credit card (not debit) I ever had was with Washington Mutual and it's a VISA. Hell I think I still have it sitting in my sock drawer in my bedroom. Fucking rate on it was astronomical so I stopped using it a long time ago.

A lot of those companies give you a choice.

I know when I signed up for my major credit cards. I was offered choice of VISA or MC. After getting the one card, I would routinely get offers to open up another. So for example, if I had a VISA, I would get an offer for a MC.

Most card companies limit you to two cards with them. Which is typically fine. Unless you use an HSBC. They have their fingers in a lot of pies.

Hmmm...I did not know that. Now that you mention it...I probably have gotten MC offers from them. But you know how it is after you've already gotten yourself situated all those new offers go unopened right into the garbage can.

I have seen both MC and Visa debit cards. Sort of regional almost but I at first thought like you. They do own roughly 30-40% of the market though.

As for banks declining stuff, mine sure in the hell has. Others have said the same as well. Shortly after banks deadline passed on the patriot act and the know your customer stuff. My bank flat out refused ALL transactions with epassporte. It is why I stopped using them and turned down a couple hundred a week of free money doing conversions with people. They will not send nor receive their wires, their ACH requests, or any load attempts via my debit cards.
Oh this was also after the US anti gambling laws passed as well, to help nail down the timeline.


Hey fucktard, already tired of your retarded ass being the dog shit stuck to peoples shoes around here. Now I will do my fucking best to fuck with you to boot.

Now what makes you think ccbill was hacked? I mean you did add a question mark but that sentance is in no way a question but a general attack.

Got any proof?

The gambling thing was why I said "legal"

As for epass...that's pretty strange. You're the first guy I ever heard say that. Of course I gave up trying to load or get money into my bank from my epass account YEARS ago.

When I changed from SCBT to Suntrust Bank I jumped through the epass hoops and tried to get my new bank account added to epass. They did the little thing where they send a few pennies to your bank in two separate transactions and you verify the amount.

Well, the few cents never showed up at my bank. I checked my account everyday online and it never got there. And then the fucking stupid ass epass won't let you "cancel" that one to try again. So 3 years and two banks later....I haven't been able to get my epass account linked to my bank account.

So I stopped using them except for paying a couple of services online (like removeyourcontent.com, etc.) I just have a few of my smaller affiliate accounts paid to my epass so I never have to load it or unload it. The extra few hundred bucks in it each month I just take out with my epass card at an ATM and use it for fun on the weekends.

Whoa there shady... before you know it, you'll want to invent blind skimming or something..

My WaMu debit card was a mastercard, and my new replacement Chase card is also. :)

MasterCard is apparently taking over the debit card biz! :)

How Wrong You Are

I attempted to make a online purchase a week ago with my MASTER CARD debit card (Not all are visa as you claim) and I was denied. The transaction was through a CCBill acct but was non adult. I then tried the same transaction through the companies Pay Pal link and had no problems.

When I contacted my bank to inquire as to the reason, I was told that certain processors were being blocked/flagged by their internal fraud dept.

I haven't carried anything but a VISA debit card in years.

My old bank limited debit card charges to US merchants only - I found this out the hard way when I tried to pick up my rental car at the Frankfurt airport. Good thing I have a Euro account too - oh, and it uses a Mastercard debit/check card. Needles to say, I switched banks as soon as I got home. My current VISA debit card is accepted world wide.

Does CCBill and other cc processors consider a debit card a credit card or an online check? Because I get a LOT of 'bounced' (or, 'Returned') checks.

I used to get a lot of those bounced checks some years ago. My buddy was getting a lot as well. So we both made a decision to turn them off. That was 3-4 years back.

I have never turned them back on since.

Yep, turned the check option off last year. Surfers figured out how to do that shit and get a free membership because it takes a few days for the "check" to clear. And then they can always turn around and stop payment and put a reversal on it too. Whatever they were doing...the majority of our online checks sales were getting us nailed. And of course CC Bill makes that nice fee off of it. lol
Turn it off and you'll make more money.

I'm at 30% returned checks... less then .5% chargebacks on cc's.

Well said.

I have a bare minimum of charge backs in all my years online. I do not think I average 1 or 2 a month. However, those bounced checks were brutal. Plus it seemed they all would come through in one billing period. So you would be happy you had a good week, and then you would have $100/200 in bounced checks and fees.

Once that started happening month after month it was time to turn it off.

My buddy was seeing the same trend, and he was getting hit for larger dollar amounts so it was even harder on him. So we discussed what we saw in patterns, and costs, and both turned them off.

I get an couple of e-mails a year asking for a check payment option, but it's a non-issue for the most part. Especially with popularity of check debit cards.

4 credit cards (1 mastercard, 3 visa) and a visa debit card. All paid up and well under the credit limit.

Cant get a single one of them past ccbill's scrub, 1 of the visa cards works for epoch rest are declined there too. How many porn buyers are going to try 5 cards?

My webmaster referral income is going through the roof

ccbill does this also, a few years ago I didn't bother to cancel a subscription because the card was about to expire, and I was surprised that they managed to rebill. I found out later that they typically add 2 years to the expiry date and retry.

But... fuzebox was suggesting that declines are increasing because people's limits are being capped at their current balance, so the credit is effectively frozen. You wouldn't see a change in declines because of expiry unless a large number of banks were reducing the validity period of cards they're issuing.

Good point, the current credit crisis is definitely a factor.

Plus CC's in general keep raising the interest rates. Capitol One increased 3% about a month back.

When the CC company writes you about an account and tells you your credit limit is now zero but you still owe them the money, people stop buying anything not absolutely needed. Know a couple guys this has happened to.

I assume these "withdrawn credit accounts"are a big part of the 88 million "fewer cards". The accounts are still there but there is no credit anymore. People have no Peter to pay Paul.

People are in debt. Credit is hard to get at a decent rate. Times are tough all over.

Taking someones credit back when they are good on all payments is a horseshit thing to do. But then CC companies are the real modern day outlaws of America.

Laws should be passed to cap some of their loansharking methods.

They show as credit.

There were laws in place that prevented it. Usury laws are some of the oldest laws on the planet. By law I can not charge what a credit card companies now does. Payday loans use loopholes in that altered credit card law and thats what allows them to do the 500 plus percent interest.

Anyways it was not to far back when the credit industry got certain laws changed that were in place since nearly the dawn of laws. Not that long after we had a nation living off of credit and in debt.

Exactly. They pushed credit cards on every young person for years. Then the economy changes and they pull in the credit from some, raise rates, try and get as much now as they can to offset bankruptcys I suppose. It's legal I suppose. But it hurts the economy big time.

The easy credit card years were great for the country and economy but "it's time to pay the piper". And business sucks all round.

Have you heard Walmart's new slogan on their tv commercials? It's something like, [paraphrased] "Walmart, shop with us, save money and live a better life."

It's a sad state when folks have to crimp to save $5-10 or whatever and that small savings will then help them live a better life.

It's like WTF? But fact is even Walmart raised from about 16% to over 21% about a monmth back.

If even Walmart has turned into a shark God help this country. At least they used to give folks a reasonable rate.

Hm that would explain why my ccbill stats are the shits...

With Nats 4.. one of my good converting sponsors has had several submits this month and no sales. Every other month it is like maybe 50-70% of submits go thru.

I mean that just sucks BIG time when a surfer wants to signup and they can't.

Makes you want to kill someone. :)

Sometimes I sense a conspiracy against this industry.
But that's just me.

Could just be the 2 part JFK special I recorded from History Channel rubbing off on me lately...

Hehehehe circa 2001:winkwink:

At my bank all checking accounts personal or business you have the option to get a credit/debit card. Just as footsies said it works just as a normal credit card. Mine are visa from the bank. You can dispute charges and such just like normal.

My guess is alot of these higher declines for rebills is due to cross sale mania most sponsors have these days. Think about it. Surfer joins site A, crosses to site B and C. Surfer is like WTF, calls their bank and shuts off card. Gets new card and goes about their business. Meanwhile program owner A waits 30 days and gets declined. Then Program A owner goes on gfy and bitches about how cards are maxed out!

:2 cents:

is TGP still alive?

Chase has MC debit cards.

I also think especially in these times programs need at least 2 CC options, Checks and then local billing options for outside the US. We've seen some merchants gain 2to3 times increased EU revenues by adding our EU Direct Debit and Advanced Direct Pay which has real effect on the bottom line! :pimp

got the same problem, the amount of abuses are increasing a lot. :mad:

Oh yeah. :)

I actually foresee many going back to tgp when they figure out tubes arent on fire like they were.

And its going to get much worse. All the card companies are already or will soon start sending out letters that say blah blah you have to accept these new terms (rate goes to 30% or w/e) or you can choose to reject these terms and your account will be closed.

Which means they will close their account if they actually read the letter or their rate will balloon to 30% and they will default and then lose their account.

It's going to get much worse.

Umm I mentioned this a year ago when people were claiming porn was rescission proof. It's doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that less people having CC's means less porn buyers..

Oh shit! My bad. Here's your cookie.

wow good piece of info

this is not the reason of the declining biz.. this has happened several times during the lats 10 years (even in bigger amounts of cards) and the biz has remained intact.

also 10 years ago, the internet had 1/10 of the surfers and CC's we have now and the sales were 50 times better than now, so how do you explain that?

Competition.