Awesome. An answer that doesn't address the issue i raised in ANY way.

Just some bullshit corpporate smokescreen.

thanx 4 the 411

This guy is clearly legit...

http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showpo...99&postcount=1

http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showpo...1&postcount=30

http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showpo...46&postcount=1

I'm done wasting time with trolls.

DUDE, this IS your answer:

Fuck with Apache a little bit and NATS can autoshave like a mofo. The same can be said for ANY such system.

But it's an irrelevant concern!!!

You have to ask yourself 1. Am I making more money? 2. Do I trust the partner to pay me.

Everything after that is for metaphysicists to jerk each other off about.

Yeah, i'm making okay money with the current sponsor. But the ease with which they edited the stats around simply blew my mind.

What if some other programs aren't that honest?

Also, what I wanted to let be knows is that the PR stunt that the NATS team are pulling, i.e. "NATS is a shave-proof platform" is bullshit. From the looks of it, it can be fucked over just as easily as editing a .txt file.

Always missing the good stuff...

Anonymous admitted troll making shit up? This is purely run of the mill stuff.

I am 100% all about trust your sponsor. Nothing is shocking, but I would rather do biz with guys I trust.

Nats, straight ccbill, straight epoch, whatever. There are sponsors I would sell for no matter what processing they are doing. I just trust that my sales will be counted and payed accordingly.

Once a sponsor does anything shady, they are off the list.

"What if some other programs aren't that honest?"

You're missing my point. It does NOT matter. Do you make more with them? Do they pay you? That's all that matters.

You can be 100% certain that there are dishonest programs out there. Take it for granted, forget about it, and start making decisions based on actionable information... like ROI.

"Also, what I wanted to let be knows is that the PR stunt that the NATS team are pulling,"

Too Much Media can back up this claim by assuring affiliates that IF they see naughty behavior, they WILL sever their relationship with the rogue. Imagine the damage done to a brand if they get caught and called out.

There's nothing disingenuous or PR-stunty about this. Perhaps this adds little value in YOUR eyes, but it doesn't refute the claim they make.

RELAX MAN! The world is not against you! (unless it is)

have there been any programs who had license revoked? Curious,... that would be nice to know..

Now the thread gets good....

as fas as i can tell you can only add sales through nats admin section, i've used that in the past to credit affiliates for network downtime.

NATS has shaved a few good years off the end of my life trying to configure this beast.. Does that count? :)

I can think of at least one

I heard that Bob's Affiliate Deluxe convert much better than NATS and they decline less sales, Is that true ?

Aha. So they can shave on NATS. That's a risk for the webmasters. If I believe that you actually witnessed it. NATS seems to keep denying that they can be shaved. I believe that nothing should be shaved. It's only fair that webmasters should see the real numbers.

The NATS software does NOT have any shave functionality.

If the OWNER is an untrustworthy cunt, then yes, they can steal sales by deleting / fucking with the database, rewriting cookies, wrapping the NATS tracking pages or whatever.

But, the NATS software itself has NO SHAVE FUNCTIONALITY.

WTF is so hard to understand people....

why would someone be pissed about adding extra sales?

Note to all program owners - you can add as many sales to my accounts as you want

Boy, on another thread all I did was say you could shave with NATS and ppl jumped down my throat!

Here's my response: Don't piss on my leg and tell me it's a-raining.

Whaty's hard to understand people' is this: WHO CARES IF THE NATS PROGRAM itself HAS NO BUILT-IN SHAVE FUNCITONALITY? If an unethical webmaster (and Lord knows there aren't any of THOSE around, right?) can do what you said, which he can, and NATS DOES NOT PREVENT IT THROUGH THEIR SOFTWARE, or their software ENABLES by-passing protocols, then it's AS GOOD AS having it built-in. Maybe NOT having these features built-in may dissuade a newbie webmaster or a lazy one but anyone who knows how to what you said would gravitate towards NATS because it allows for what you said.

So in the end you get fucked either way.

How the fuck is NATS supposed to prevent someone from fucking with stuff outside its scope. Magic?

haha i hope i don't shoot myself in the foot here, but you could consider that 'reverse shaving'.. I had some dude talking about it 6 months ago

Oh, so you can easily ADD sales, but can not remove them? It works only one way?

Does anyone really believe that?

Are you saying they modified NATS to remove sales or that they are using standard functionality to do so? "I don't know" is not a valid answer.

apparently only the people who have used it. there is no ability to erase sales

it's true, there's no way through the NATS interface to remove a sale.

I can reverse shave you all day though :thumbsup

And another thing, for those of you that weren't around int he 90's and earlier part of this decade, programs got busted all the time "shaving" which was basically "shave configs" alot were literally titled this in the software.

I remember MPA had fields like:

% affiliate gets for revshare
% to show affiliates

% of uniques to show affiliates
% of raw to show affiliates.

These were systematic program wide instant shaves built into the software for the specific purpose of quickly being able to cut a % off each affiliates commission without them knowing program wide.

Until NATS came out this was standard practice.

Of course with NATS if you maliciously alter the program and fuck with the DB anything is possible, but if TMM sees the irregularity your fucked.

Ultimately, you are right, of course. Nothing is ever 100% ANYthing in this world. What I'm saying is, if one chooses to work within the NATS environment then NATS shouldn't make it so darn easy to fudge things, that's all. True, you could go around NATS, if you're unethical, but that's not my point.

Which is?? LOL

ANY system that allows the program owners/sponsers to decide where the sales go once everything is setup is ripe for tampering. With CCBill you can, of ocurse, change percentages, etc, and drop affiliates, but you have to fax in change forms to do so, and they have to be approved, and if you do this ten times a week or something your account gets flagged, on and on. So anyone saying 'there's NO WAY' to shave with ___________ are as clueless as someone who says 'EVERYONE shaves'.

I hate 'absolutes', that's all.

Aboslutely.

I agree not much in this world is absolute. Most times anyone who believes that is fooling themselves.

How do we make it "so darn easy" to fudge things?

Also, by using CCBill's affiliate tools to run your affiliate program you're using a wiffle ball bat in the world series. You're leaving a lot of money on the table. I'm not saying you have to use NATS, there's a number of solutions, but by using a biller specific solution you're selling yourself short.

I can feel you on that.
I would never stoop to taking ideas from someone that showed me something in confidence, just not in my character and I think that is the actual definition of character. What you do when no one is looking.

I have had ideas stolen, fuck entire sites built around what I thought was a private talk with someone I felt was a friend at least. I can state with 100% certainty though that whatever is said to me in private, be it on the phone, via email, or ICQ is always considered to be an NDA in place. Even with silly shit. I have yet to disclose ICQ logs even to prove to others in public that what I was saying was true, I will not even start drama and take the hit if I can not prove it otherwise.

Only real exception to those rules would be if what is being discussed is the formation of the deal/contract/instructions/ for what was being ordered or paid for.

Same as you Fletch I have real issue dealing with let alone showing any rep my material unless I know them fairly well at least online and more often than not offline. They also can not be a job jumper. If I have seen them or companies post those letters saying congrats to both sides, we parted ways, it was time to stroke each other off and not say shit as to why I am quiting or you are firing me because we do not want to take the PR hit or that damn rep knows to damn much fucking information.
Now show me a rep or someone that sticks with a company for years, or someone that rarely changes a job - unless for instance they do short term consulting gigs which honestly rarely last longer than 1-3 months (no should they) and also no damn reason to post that you got that job.

I don't get how shaving makes a program more money... As soon as an affiliate is making less sales then he is used to, he'll leave. How is that a good business decision?

Affiliates aren't stupid, they don't just blinding send thousands of hits to sponsors with no idea what kind of return they should be seeing...

I call BS.. post your proof newb!

I am pretty sure I have seen sales stopped on a NATS account. There is no way to stop an account from recieving sales? Like a suspend button?

if that would be the case most programs out there wouldnt stay in business more than a week, they rely on the weak minded short term thinking people and this industry is full of them.

Having played with nats allot lately and compared it to others, there is no doubt there is no shave feature at all.

Another thing affiliates should remember is if you are pushing a guy that steals from surfers dont assume he wont steal from you.

Wow! that is a source i trust quite a lot. So very cool for NATS.

yeah, that's the only thing which bothers me, almost all programs cheating on surfers are nats based :2 cents:

Closed accounts still count stats, blocked accounts stop traffic (the program doesn't even get them)

I dont work for anyone, i only work for myself as a broker :thumbsup

And almost everyone who cheats users runs Linux servers - CONSPIRACY! :1orglaugh

in ccbill we can check tracking by searching for affiliate's pa into join form source, which means that affiliate is 100% credited for the sale. end of the story.
is there any way to check if billing gets a cookie and is webmaster credited for that?
what stops program owner from adding 3rd, 4th or 5th billing into cascade which don't credit webmaster for those sales?

it's the same thing that every killer uses a car and every killer uses a sniper rifle
catch the difference?

You know you're talking to a guy who takes affiliate-assumed-given memberships and hands them out for traffic on his forums, right?

And yet even in CCBill, you've got webmasters who turn off rebills....

please, don't tell me it couldn't be done in nats

i'm asking about initial sales right now

You have no idea what you're talking about. Seriously.
You're not actually smart enough to understand the situation.

Worst part is, with your simplified perception of the situation, you actually think you're an expert on it.

Don't sweat it, it's a well-known phenomenom. Just back out of the thread slowly.

fuck, i know nats as good as possible from affiliate's perspective
and OP's question is from affiliate's perspective

and if you are so smart it should be easy for you to explain how things are going instead of attacking me personally

exactly. I try to avoid programs that have delayed stats

Shave, fraud, "bug" ... whatever.. does the definition really matter? It's bad enough if it really happens...

What I really miss with most tracking systems as affiliate, especially with NATS and ccbill, is an instant email notification, if/when a program change payout rates/pps. That would not only keep you tracked what to "avoid", but also what to push. Same thing with price of the sites, because in the end, it's $/traffic that matters - not the signup ratio itself.

That's the truth. :2 cents: