Pointless poll... The McDonalds where I'm a WEEKDAY SHIFT ----SUPERVISOR----- :) currently sells over 300 combos a day

Just to play devils advocate...

7 sales a day at around $20 p/transaction exceeds $50K p/year. The average salary in the US is $30K so unless a few of the guys on the board are also secret doctors, lawyers, or rocket scientists, it is still better than most alternative professions.

Mickey Dees ain't payin anywhere near that!

True. But if you are doing 7 sales a day after 2 years full time work it's only a matter of time before you are a goner. It's cool to make that money but it's probably smart to start looking for what you'll be doing over the next 5, 10, 15 years. I'd say find a way to do this part time and try to find what your career or long term plan will be. That way you are making money and setting yourself up long term.

Of course I view this as a business. So to many people my post may sound like their dad talking to them and they will want to wipe their ass with my opinion. I'm Just giving my professional advice to those looking to be successful :winkwink:

That's good advice, but even if you are doing great in adult today, it is unclear what tomorrow will bring. It is always a good idea to diversify, and keep your future options open.

Running a dangerous cult in your spare time for example...

http://www.JoinADangerousCult.com :upsidedow

True. I didn't want my post to come off wrong. It's the same advice I'd give a close friend or family member. I believe I've given a few friends that exact advice in the past. I told them to set realistic goals and if they couldn't hit them then move on.

I'd agree with the diversify to a point. I think if you are in the middle area it's good advice. IE If you are at a point that your success isn't great but is better than average. If you are let's say FreeOnes then I completely disagree with you. If I were FreeOnes I would not diversify out of adult unless I really had the time or an unbelievable opportunity to do so. That is how I've approached our business. We've done very well. Far better than I could have ever imagined. Splitting my attention and diversifying outside of my strength and knowledge base is a risky move. If the risk was worth it (ie a great opportunity came up) then I'd say it's worth trying. But if I was diversifying simply to not have all my eggs in one basket then that would be a huge mistake.

I would say that my success really took off when I stopped worrying about diversifying. When I said fuck it, I'm in Porn and I'm going to kill it, make as much as possible and then retire from this. That is when I killed it and exploded. Before that I was always thinking about mainstream ideas and how I could build something acceptable or respectable to most people. You have to do what you are best at. Right now my time is best spent doing what I'm doing :winkwink:

Vastly oversimplified.

Affiliates do not push just one site.

Even small programs typically have more than one site.

The vast majority of this industry are part timers.

No offense Menudo, while I expect these kind of stomp out your dreams posts from the BROgrams. I simply think they are vastly oversimplified - let me take a piss in your face posts. Whether you meant it that way or not is another thing. However, that is how it reads.

If someone is knocking back 5 sales a day, and doing this 2-3 hours between burger shifts, then they are doing some nice extra money and may eventually go full time. If a small program has 3-5 sites and doing that on different sites, they are doing ok. Add in some clips stores and other revenue streams and they are over 100k easily.

As I said Livin La Vida Loca, no offense to you. But those couple of posts do not accurately sum up the industry, nor what is considered 'successful' to many. As the O.P. has pointed out.

:2 cents:

my sales suck right now

I think you missed my point.

I said if someone has been working full time and (in total) does less than 10 sales a day then they should start thinking about moving on.

I didn't say anything about part timers. About one site doing that much. I said if someone's entire full time effort over a prolonged period of time yields less than 10 sales a day then they should move on.

No worries bud. Simply clarifying the point. There is plenty of money to be made, and pay site sign ups are one piece in the revenue pie.

Now go Shake Y'er Bon Bon.

:pimp

no,no,no, you better go flippin burgers acording shaps advice, it still better job then 7sales a day, you will make it big time with flippin burgers everyday, everyweek, everymonth...24h/7w/12m, thats where the real money are... :winkwink:

Fiddy shap business tips.
:pimp

Sig.

9.9999 on average, does that count? o:
Duke

Just 8 more votes and we hit 100.

You're right I don't know why i bother nobody else does :/

yeah sales suck, so change your game plan or do something dif.

Shap's offered some good advice in the past.

No one agrees with everyone all of the time.

It's always good to hear opinions and suggestions from people... especially those who are successful.

True dat.

True dat.

:pimp

it's not 1999 anymore.

could shap recreate his success in 2009?

i like the guy, but probably not. look at sleazydream and xxxjay and countless others.

the gravy days are long gone.

Well said. :thumbsup

those who stick with it will payoff

Sure, that counts!

BTW, what is the image in your avatar?

I agree times have changed but i'm not a one trick pony. Our paysites are still thriving and our new projects are also doing very well. Not many companies can say that these days.


Could I succeed today with the skill set I came into this biz with? He'll no. But I'm not relying on that skill set. I'm researching and bettering myself and my team everyday.

100 votes have now been cast.

Here are the results for those of you who did not vote....

http://www.FetishSoup.com/GFY/PollResults.jpg

True dat. You're a pop group named Menudo.
:pimp

$40 per sale?:error

Most of the people I know doing "bigger numbers" mysteriously don't rely on getting paid that much (or PPS for that matter) :winkwink:

Then you don't know everyone :winkwink:

I know many that do in fact make huge numbers with high PPS. In this biz(now days) you might as well take the high PPS and re-invest It into other stuff.

It doesn't matter what some say. I look at It like this: Program A offers 60% revshare, that will yield me $17,48 per sale for a full sale. Program B converts just as good but offer me $50 PPS on a trial. For every sale made I have to wait 3 months to make those 50 that I would have made instantly with PPS. And not more than say 30% stay 3 months on a good program now day's. But some will stay 2 years and bring up the average you say, yea true but what kind of money can you make with the PPS sales in 2 years if you re-invest them.

example: I have been a long time affiliate at a revshare program paying 50% and I convert them pretty good, getting $15 per initial sale and for every rebill. My average per sale value is at $35 with them now counted out over a 4 year period.

actually there are secret doctors and lawyers on the board. At least one of each I know personally.

Fair enough, a different perspective/experience. The topic was focusing on join numbers and direct income though, hence why I didn't counted revshare\rebill income,etc..

Never I did say I knew everybody, was just stating (perhaps not in the best way possible) that not everybody is on/pushes $40 PPS :winkwink::thumbsup

That's all fine and dandy. Just understand that a significant number of the programs that offer high PPS are able to pay that by butt-fucking the surfers. What you said about taking the high PPS and reinvesting it in yourself is a very wise move cuz a lot of the surfers you sent to that join ain't never gonna join another paysite again, thus reducing your future income potential.

And while this poll may be fun, it's sort of pointless. If you do 30 joins per day but it costs you $25 to send that join, then what's the point? You know? The poll may be more informative if it asked how much you net, on average, per day.

I mean, fuck, I could go make some deal before the end of the day to buy 50 cross sales per day from some other company. But, I'd make next to nothing on the join and I'd have to realize that of the 50 cross-sale joins I got, a significant number of those customers will never buy from me or anyone else ever again. I have pretty low morals in relation to most people but I'm not willing to anal-rape my future, you know?

And Shapster, for the record, I do not believe you're growing and expanding. Now, I know you and I like you personally and maybe I'm 100% wrong, but I simply do not believe you. No one's growing and expanding right now. They may be buying up programs and filling them up with member area advertising links and pre-checked cross sales in order to gobble up every dime they can find, but ain't one program doing better in October of 09 than they did in Oct 08. Any program that's been around for awhile anyway. I mean, if you did 20 sales in Oct 08 and 100 in Oct 09, that doesn't count. Your content is simply not that unique to justify your company is growing while others with similar content are not. It's nothing personal. Just independent, objective thinking.

Comparing our Paysites Oct 2008 to Oct 2009 on sales and rebills we are pretty close to dead even. Adding in upsells and better member monetization we are up a little on overall revenue (ie we've increased our live cams push in the past year).

Our big growth is in the other projects we are working on. Some that people know of and others that people don't. Our industry has changed dramatically in a very short period of time. The people unwilling to change and innovate and work harder than ever are being chewed up and spit out. I think it's important for people to understand there is a big difference between the old guys/companies who are struggling going out of business and the guys that are still doing well. You can no longer sit back and relax and coast. The second you do that you are done.

We just put an offer on a new office space that is double the space and quite a bit more pricey than the one we are in now. Why? Because we need more room. We are looking to expand our staff and continue pushing hard. Times are tough but we are still no where near the point of cutting back and milking our entities for every last penny of profit

A note on my last point....I strongly believe when an entity/site/project hits a point where it continues to drop you have to look towards cutting all costs and running it as lean as possible. The beauty of our industry is, in most cases, there is a really good drawn out earn out period. If you have a paysite that was 15,000 members and it dropped to 3k members. Chances are you'll drop to a point where you can stop updating and make almost 100% pure profit. It's important to recognize when you hit that point so you can make that project as profitable in the end as possible.

Guess BROgrams missed this little ditty. So will post again.

Also, for the record, I do not consider growth by cross sales, and some other similar tactics 'growth' as being asked in this thread.

I think the O.P. is talking about direct, legit, memberships. Whether smaller affiliate, or small program or independent webmaster just starting out. Not the BROgrams with unlimited resources, and 10,000 affiliates.

Them chiming in, regarding this poll or thread talking about their greatness, really is pointless in this context. I think the O.P. was really trying to get the pulse of the industry in regards to the small, and middle ground of start ups.

Could be wrong, but that's my read on it.

PROFIT Shap, PROFIT. Revenues are worthless information. Well, not entirely worthless but shit, I made a shit ton more in 09 than Bank of America did. I think I profited like 5 billions dollars more than Bank of America is gonna do. But, they may have me beat a bit in revenue.

I'm willing to bet you $500 CDN that if your revenue stayed the same from last year to this year, you spent more getting that traffic and then getting that traffic to convert. That would mean you did not grow and expand. You just increased revenue. Increasing revenue is not nearly as challenging as increasing profitability.

And please tell me you did not just advocate keeping up a site and encouraging affiliates to send traffic to it while not updating it. I'm thinking maybe I misunderstood that sentence as that just does not strike me as a Shap-ism.

In terms of profit we are doing better than last year. Why? Because we always left a lot of money on the table and in the past year we started taking that money off the table. Where we used to do almost 0 in live cams now we are doing huge numbers. That said growing over the next 12 months would be very difficult as we are approaching the one year mark since we started that. Come this December year over year is going to be a lot of work to match in terms of sales, revenue or profit. Again that is only for paysites. Our other projects are experiencing huge profit growth.

I didn't say affiliates should send to a dead site. What I am saying is if you are running a paysite you have to know where you are in that paysite's life cycle. If you are heading towards the end of the road there is no point in sinking money into content and traffic. If the site is dying it's better to recognize that and milk it as hard as you can. It isn't part of my business model but it is a reality that all business owners should consider.

For the record, I do not know Shap, good or bad, and while I have seen him at shows. Never talked to him. So I am not busting his balls on a personal level one way or the other. Frankly I am indifferent to him and Twistys.

In general, in the past, Shap has shared some tidbits I agree with. However, I do not always agree and I am not afraid to say so. I just wanted to make that clear on a personal level.

Now that said..

.... there are a lot of old timers who believe you should leave up a site like that to milk them for all they are worth. Where I sell them off when I do not want them anymore, or they are abandon, or I do not plan to update them.

Myself, I do not find it all that hard to create new profitable sites. So I do not need to milk old dead assets. I would rather sell them off while they are worth something. But I get grief all the time for that mentality.

My guess is Shapalicious is more the conventional thinking on that position, as are many others in regards to asset management.

Just to clarify - the reason I posted this poll was to get an idea of what kind of sales an average person was achieving in today's adult business environment.

Obviously the big players and large established programs will still exceed 10 sales a day, as that is nothing for them. It may be possible that they've dropped from 100 sales per day down to 20, and yet in this poll they are still at the top.

I should have restricted the criteria a bit when I started this post, but even with all of the potential confusion I think a good amount of honesty has come through.

Small sites and networks that are making 5+ sales a day in today's economy, with limited assistance and minimal capital, are (in my opinion) reasonably successful at the moment. With tons of people out of work, and considering the state of the credit card crunch, maybe things are not as dire as I was beginning to believe.

A big thanks to all who have participated!

Just to clarify - the reason I posted this poll was to get an idea of what kind of sales an average person was achieving in today's adult business environment.

Obviously the big players and large established programs will still exceed 10 sales a day, as that is nothing for them. It may be possible that they've dropped from 100 sales per day down to 20, and yet in this poll they are still at the top.

In hindsight I should have restricted the criteria a bit when I started this post, but even with all of the potential confusion I think a good amount of honesty has come through.

Small sites and networks that are making 5+ sales a day in today's economy, with limited assistance and minimal capital, are (in my opinion) reasonably successful at the moment. With tons of people out of work, and considering the state of the credit card crunch, maybe things are not as dire as I was beginning to believe.

A big thanks to all who have participated!

Look at time stamp.

I was typing and can't delete my post. Shapinski's clarified his point.


:winkwink:

I think it is still doable with the right business model, and content.

I do not buy traffic, nor have a ton of affiliates, and prefer to do it the long tail route. Targeting in on quality, converting, customers. Versus the old business model many use playing the traffic game.... throw enough shit and some will stick.

So when I can almost get to your cut off number on one site launched 4 months ago with less that 1000 UV a day. I think that is a strong indicator that this business still has good opportunity for "the little guy" just starting out.

:2 cents:

Absolutely. My point was I don't think someone doing this for 2 years full time and doing a total of 5 sales a day should consider themselves successful or close to a breakthrough. If you've done this for 2 years full time and are doing 5 sales a day total you really do need to move on because this industry isn't for you.

How is adding cams taking money off the table?

You know what, let's stop. I do appreciate what appears to be your candid replies but I just don't see it.

I suppose I'd never believe it till I saw your CPA verified financials and I'm pretty sure that ain't gonna happen.


Twistys
BusytOnes.com
AllNextDoor.com
BigCockNextDoor.com
BlowJobNextDoor.com
EbonyNextDoor.com
FuckNextDoor.com

GirlVoyeurNextDoor.com
HandJobNextDoor.com
HotCollegeGirlsNextDoor.com
HotMomNextDoor.com
HotVirginNextDoor.com

LesbianNextDoor.com
PornNextDoor.com
SheMaleNextDoor.com
SquirtingNextDoor.com
ThroatFuckNextDoor.com

IMO, none of these sites have any originality to them. Yes, the girls are smoking hot but the web is filled with hot girls fucking. Just a bunch of sites filled with purchased content offering pre-checked cross-sales. Albeit, above the join form but that's gotta be a significant portion of your income as well.

But I'll take you at your word, Shapapotomus. Your making tons on cams and that's your focus in addition to your paysites and you're netting more profit in 09 then in 08. Got it.