Are they advertisers here? Paying for ad space? Probably. So I have no issues with them.

Spinning wheels here.

Great! Good luck to you.

Sleazy, I count dozens of my galleries on your site :( Why the hate all of a sudden? :pimp

I think a dedicated "Announcement" could be of good value for GFY and their advertisers.

Advertisers could could get a pinned thread for a week on such a forum, ensuring higher exposure vs non advertisers.

Furthermore I don't think it would hurt the board to have in general 4-5 pinned threads at any given time in the main forum from advertisers only neither.

Did the 40% drop go to other sites? If not, where do you think the other 40% go?

Yes, I request that we have hourly fresh coffee in the lobby. I find it tends to get cold and stale after about an hour of Juicy dipping his waxed nuts in the pot every 5 minutes.

Thanks,
A Loyal GFY Grunt.

fair enough...GFY can give you more exposure without creating a spam forum for people that don't buy advertising.

Why would anyone read a forum with nothing but advertising anyway? The only creative content on this board are the trolls. Just my feeling, but all the traffic on this board will move to the interesting threads, not a forum with nothing but program marketing.

what you are suggesting will KILL GFY

so anyone who can't afford a $3000 ad shouldn't be allowed to talk about their program?

I'm REALLY loosing a LOT of respect for you in this thread............

Next thing you know, people will start complaining about spam...



https://youtube.com/watch?v=anwy2MPT5RE

PR_Dave , stop advertising here if you are not happy the way it is . This place
is like the Adult Craigslist (and they don't even have any advertisement there) , the free concept does wonders to sites ,
take that away and you will lose traffic quick ....

you have some good galleries. I posted them as such.

dozens - I think not - i doubt there's ever been more than 3-4 on the site at any time.

usually less.

do they do well - yes - your program is good. not going to deny that.

If you think I'm going to suck your cock for that - you don't know me very well.

if posting your galleries requires me to agree with you - BE CLEAR ABOUT IT and SAY IT NOW. if I have to agree with you on GFY to use your galleries or get paid for them, then our business relationship is done.

The hate comes from watching someone trying to kill the little guy. Why do you care if a shitty little program posts a spam on GFY? Does it hurt you?

I hazard to say it probably HELPS you - why?

someone tries the little program. the new little program is new to this game. They don't have all the systems you have and experience you have in place to convert. They arn't cascading like you are or have the programmers you have. as such they don't convert as well. The webmaster then tries your program as SEES the difference.

I'm honestly disgusted by someone wanting to stop a smaller program from trying to exist.

if a rule like you suggest becomes a rule here, I WILL leave. I will find another place to spend my time and I'll take a lot of people with me. Will I end GFY? - hell no. But I can guarantee that a rule like you suggest like this will severely hurt GFY. I stuck by GFY on their decision to allow the tubes to advertise, why - fair playing field. By your logic no would should be able to slam them in any thread cause they paid for the spot. I won't have any part of that. I'm here cause this place is free, unrestricted, and overall a great place I have supported with huge time, praise, and my own money many times for close to 10 years.

Please don't take that away from me and everyone else here. You will do more harm to the webmaster community then you could ever imagine.....unless that is your goal......

I pray you have the wisdom to retract your statement. I understand the idea of maximizing your advertising dollars. Hurting the little programs is the wrong way to do it.

:2 cents:

What he said!

10x better than I could at that!

Kudos to Sleazy. 100% on point. I think the same kind of greed that fueled this post is the same kind of greed that steals from webmasters any chance they get. I don't trust people like that at all. Kind of sketchy sending traffic to a program ran on greed. :thumbsup

don't get me wrong - pimproll has some great galleries... i think i always get 1-3 sales for most every gallery of theirs i post, and i put them in LOW positions too so that means they KNOW how to convert.

he helps a lot of webmasters with great content and great conversions. And pimproll has ALWAYS paid me and on time

that's why I don't understand his reasoning here AT ALL

Yep I agree with you 100% but Ibill used to always pay on time as well but then the greed got the best of all of us. All I'm saying is you got to have an eye out on greedy owners/ companies, not talking about PR-dave really just greedy companies in general.

Hmmm. I understand your complaint. But I don't know any new program that started out big. Im sure there are many quality people and businesses that can't yet afford GFY advertising and "1/2 asses" isn't a very good statement :2 cents:

If you pay big bucks for GFY ads you're getting ripped off :1orglaugh

Dating gold, stand up company!!!:thumbsup:thumbsup:thumbsup

Stand up and Vote, brethren: http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showthread.php?t=940242

I knew there was a reason I have never promoted pimproll in my soon 11 years in this biz.

really good point :2 cents:

Very good point! :thumbsup

If only the advertisers can post then we will have nothing but posts from crap cross sale programs and tube sites.

It's the little posts that have always made me the money. And I imagine that if you remove them a lot of the webmasters will follow them somewhere else.

hot teens, more pic and topic

:thumbsup

First off, while I'm not sending mad traffic or anything, I do promote PimpRoll sites and I've recommended them to others. And I found them through GFY. Probably a lot of people like me did, so the money PimpRoll has spent here is probably well spent.

If PimpRoll blocked me from ever posting a thread with holidays pics or something I recently shot that I'm happy about or fan signs etc., I'd be pretty bummed.

If somebody's first post is spam, I'm not going to as into promoting them as if they participate in GFY. I certainly don't like posters who are trying to sell me something in every thread they post in. I also don't like posters who are constantly negative or who are psycho racist and sexist or who are dudes who pretend to be a chick when talking to webmasters. Everybody has stuff they don't like, but I don't expect Eric to be my nanny either. I understand that PimpRoll has more reason to feel justified in making demands, because PimpRoll is paying for that privilege, but it seems to me that PimpRoll is getting value from advertising with GFY.

If I tend to enjoy someone's posts or find them useful, I'm more likely to click on a thread they started.

PS Dave, if you feel like sending me some exit or cross-sale traffic from PunkRockGF, we'd probably both make some extra dough and get a positive out of this thread :)

:1orglaugh Please define "couldn't resist"

"who are psycho racist and sexist "

you must be tired tonight... go drink some blood - it'll make you feel better....:P

I checked and found that GFY is useless as ad place.

I don't agree with Sleazy all that often - but VERY well said. :thumbsup

dave I don't advertize here...should I be bounced as well?

....................................

Seriously? I would bet that 50% of the traffic that GFY gets is from small programs or freelancers looking for work/affiliates/etc. If the mods start moving all of these threads to an announcements forum or similar I would bet money you will watch traffic take a dive and your advertising dollars will be wasted. How much are you paying for the traffic you get from here now? Do you actually track how many clicks you get from that banner... my educated guess is that at $3k/month you are not gaining a ROI.... so why should you expect a smaller company to follow you into that rabbit hole?

I am sorry, Eric, but any real webmaster knows the difference between a good ad buy and a bad one and at $3000/month a top banner here would have to send an awful lot of traffic to provide a return other than branding... and only a liar would say they do.

I'm starting to lose some respect for you myself.. Did you even read his posts? Do you even know what it costs to advertise here? I read someone say you can get a banner spot for as low as 300 bucks.. come on!

You have been a good webmaster of ours for a long time now so I really don't understand why you are turning a disagreement with what Dave said into a war against us. Where did he say that nobody else should be aloud to make a thread? WHERE??? He is talking about advertising threads... Even if you disagree with what he is saying it is a valid argument, so valid that even Eric stepped in and not only responded but agreed that it should be something worth looking into down the road.


A lot of people taking shots at us for being so high and mighty here, but how do you guys think we built what we have? It had nothing to do with kissing ass BELIEVE ME. We paid a fortune in advertising when we first started things up! Not just here either. Why should someone who is just riding along for free get the same exposure then?

There is no reason we can't argue this issue without resorting to attacking each others business practices so if you disagree? Let's here it, but lets not be putting words into each others mouths here... :thumbsup

pr Dave your logic is flawed in so many ways. first if gfy was only paid sponsors it would die as nobody would come here knowing it was nothng more than a paid inframertial. Alkso this would kill the value of all paid advertising as everyone would just skip over it because you knopw it was just a paid spot. The true value of any advertising is in word of mouth, real life experiences with that program Paid spots are simply that...Paid Spots.


:pimp

Wanting more for my ad $'s brings the hate.

Sleazy is just saying what is on his mind, he is a business man too. I have no personal issue with him.

Industry is changing, this is a business is it not? I am looking to get more for people that advertise on GFY and less for people that don't.

Perhaps a time limit on non-advertiser announcements would do the trick. 12 hours and then the bounce.

everyone should be able to make posts about their business, but I ageee you cant make the same types of announcements that an advertiser would make, or do contests.

I think what is *really* being said here is that the GFY advertisers (and Dave says they are in agreement) ... They want more value for their advertising dollars. Advertisers clearly do not feel they are getting what they're paying for, and that's a big problem.


If GFY is seriously interested in segregating non-advertiser announcements, and only allow paid advertisers to have free speech... yikes. Trying to implement that and then moderate it sounds like a nightmare.


There are many better ways to create value for your existing clients. Rotating skins, FPA's, etc for long-term clients .. so they get something every x-months for remaining a loyal client. GFY needs to keep these folks happy without pissing off the other 95%.

I agree with fris, and it seems to me that it's just as simple as that. I didnt see where Dave said to turn over the apple cart. Lots of room between mountain and molehill.

I think Eric just needs to find the balance between making his paying advertisers happy and the people who post on this board. Advertisers need to be able to get their ROI back on their marketing dollars.... its purely business!

What about time limits on non advertiser posters?
Extra long stickys for advertisers?
Free week skinning for hi end advertisers 2 times a year?

People seem to have jump the gun and not read his whole post, assuming that he doesnt want anyone making posts except advertisers.

Exactly. Daves head is heading where no other program owner has gone before.
..................................

The problem with the rich is they stop seeing the world through the eyes of the poor.

Most people in small business don't start with a fortune in advertising when they first start up. Sure, if i was born rich, it would be easy to run a business. i can hire whoever i need to run my business, buy all the marketing i need to expose my brand. Most people are not in that boat, & need affordable means to do business in lieu of wealth. Most of the biggest successes in life did not start out rich.

Its one thing to say, give me more exposure because i am paying money that others are not...that's a valid desire. That can be done without segregating non-paying posters. That is worlds apart from what this thread states, which is literally "fuck the poor" send them to their own thread.

Since the web has made information distribution a virtually free commodity, charging people to post on all or part of GFY would be a disaster akin to the Hindenburg. & its mind boggling that someone running a successful business on the web would propose such an idea. Double mind boggling the board administrator thinks it has merit. You have to be fucking kidding.

:2 cents:

Advertisers should have control over their message not the media.

Imaging if advertisers had control of newspapers or news coverage.

Interesting example regarding newspapers. Where do these same newspapers stick their free ads? Not on the front page ;)

I am pretty sure the following is where he went wrong.

I lost a lot of respect right there. And i understand that he is just trying to get his monies worth out of his advertising but saying fuck you to the smaller programs just isn't the way to do it, gfy would be shit if it wasn't for ALL programs being able to post about their program.

You completely missed what he said and skipped right to an unrelated example... the point was that advertisers don't have control of the media except to choose to advertise or not... that is where your choice lies... advertise or not. As far as what was proposed by the OP is concerned and his characterization of other programs as "dead weight"... some of those "dead weight" programs have used logic and experience to determine that spending $3000/month for a banner spot that rotates and is displayed only one every x amount of page views is a bad investment for them. I agree that non-advertisers shouldn't be able to have sticky's or contest threads... but a great number of us read gfy to find out about new programs/sites. There is alot to be said for promoting fresh stuff and not the same old stale shit that most big programs produce.

:2 cents: Anyone dumb enough to say something like that doesn't deserve MY traffic... that is certain... let's review history here... how many small programs have been caught shaving or worse? All of the ones I can remember were large companies.