I checked and found that GFY is useless as ad place.

I don't agree with Sleazy all that often - but VERY well said. :thumbsup

dave I don't advertize here...should I be bounced as well?

....................................

Seriously? I would bet that 50% of the traffic that GFY gets is from small programs or freelancers looking for work/affiliates/etc. If the mods start moving all of these threads to an announcements forum or similar I would bet money you will watch traffic take a dive and your advertising dollars will be wasted. How much are you paying for the traffic you get from here now? Do you actually track how many clicks you get from that banner... my educated guess is that at $3k/month you are not gaining a ROI.... so why should you expect a smaller company to follow you into that rabbit hole?

I am sorry, Eric, but any real webmaster knows the difference between a good ad buy and a bad one and at $3000/month a top banner here would have to send an awful lot of traffic to provide a return other than branding... and only a liar would say they do.

I'm starting to lose some respect for you myself.. Did you even read his posts? Do you even know what it costs to advertise here? I read someone say you can get a banner spot for as low as 300 bucks.. come on!

You have been a good webmaster of ours for a long time now so I really don't understand why you are turning a disagreement with what Dave said into a war against us. Where did he say that nobody else should be aloud to make a thread? WHERE??? He is talking about advertising threads... Even if you disagree with what he is saying it is a valid argument, so valid that even Eric stepped in and not only responded but agreed that it should be something worth looking into down the road.


A lot of people taking shots at us for being so high and mighty here, but how do you guys think we built what we have? It had nothing to do with kissing ass BELIEVE ME. We paid a fortune in advertising when we first started things up! Not just here either. Why should someone who is just riding along for free get the same exposure then?

There is no reason we can't argue this issue without resorting to attacking each others business practices so if you disagree? Let's here it, but lets not be putting words into each others mouths here... :thumbsup

pr Dave your logic is flawed in so many ways. first if gfy was only paid sponsors it would die as nobody would come here knowing it was nothng more than a paid inframertial. Alkso this would kill the value of all paid advertising as everyone would just skip over it because you knopw it was just a paid spot. The true value of any advertising is in word of mouth, real life experiences with that program Paid spots are simply that...Paid Spots.


:pimp

Wanting more for my ad $'s brings the hate.

Sleazy is just saying what is on his mind, he is a business man too. I have no personal issue with him.

Industry is changing, this is a business is it not? I am looking to get more for people that advertise on GFY and less for people that don't.

Perhaps a time limit on non-advertiser announcements would do the trick. 12 hours and then the bounce.

everyone should be able to make posts about their business, but I ageee you cant make the same types of announcements that an advertiser would make, or do contests.

I think what is *really* being said here is that the GFY advertisers (and Dave says they are in agreement) ... They want more value for their advertising dollars. Advertisers clearly do not feel they are getting what they're paying for, and that's a big problem.


If GFY is seriously interested in segregating non-advertiser announcements, and only allow paid advertisers to have free speech... yikes. Trying to implement that and then moderate it sounds like a nightmare.


There are many better ways to create value for your existing clients. Rotating skins, FPA's, etc for long-term clients .. so they get something every x-months for remaining a loyal client. GFY needs to keep these folks happy without pissing off the other 95%.

I agree with fris, and it seems to me that it's just as simple as that. I didnt see where Dave said to turn over the apple cart. Lots of room between mountain and molehill.

I think Eric just needs to find the balance between making his paying advertisers happy and the people who post on this board. Advertisers need to be able to get their ROI back on their marketing dollars.... its purely business!

What about time limits on non advertiser posters?
Extra long stickys for advertisers?
Free week skinning for hi end advertisers 2 times a year?

People seem to have jump the gun and not read his whole post, assuming that he doesnt want anyone making posts except advertisers.

Exactly. Daves head is heading where no other program owner has gone before.
..................................

The problem with the rich is they stop seeing the world through the eyes of the poor.

Most people in small business don't start with a fortune in advertising when they first start up. Sure, if i was born rich, it would be easy to run a business. i can hire whoever i need to run my business, buy all the marketing i need to expose my brand. Most people are not in that boat, & need affordable means to do business in lieu of wealth. Most of the biggest successes in life did not start out rich.

Its one thing to say, give me more exposure because i am paying money that others are not...that's a valid desire. That can be done without segregating non-paying posters. That is worlds apart from what this thread states, which is literally "fuck the poor" send them to their own thread.

Since the web has made information distribution a virtually free commodity, charging people to post on all or part of GFY would be a disaster akin to the Hindenburg. & its mind boggling that someone running a successful business on the web would propose such an idea. Double mind boggling the board administrator thinks it has merit. You have to be fucking kidding.

:2 cents:

Advertisers should have control over their message not the media.

Imaging if advertisers had control of newspapers or news coverage.

Interesting example regarding newspapers. Where do these same newspapers stick their free ads? Not on the front page ;)

I am pretty sure the following is where he went wrong.

I lost a lot of respect right there. And i understand that he is just trying to get his monies worth out of his advertising but saying fuck you to the smaller programs just isn't the way to do it, gfy would be shit if it wasn't for ALL programs being able to post about their program.

You completely missed what he said and skipped right to an unrelated example... the point was that advertisers don't have control of the media except to choose to advertise or not... that is where your choice lies... advertise or not. As far as what was proposed by the OP is concerned and his characterization of other programs as "dead weight"... some of those "dead weight" programs have used logic and experience to determine that spending $3000/month for a banner spot that rotates and is displayed only one every x amount of page views is a bad investment for them. I agree that non-advertisers shouldn't be able to have sticky's or contest threads... but a great number of us read gfy to find out about new programs/sites. There is alot to be said for promoting fresh stuff and not the same old stale shit that most big programs produce.

:2 cents: Anyone dumb enough to say something like that doesn't deserve MY traffic... that is certain... let's review history here... how many small programs have been caught shaving or worse? All of the ones I can remember were large companies.

This is a very simple issue.

Assume there are 10,000 registered members of GFY, and 100 of them occassionally advertise.

Set up the board so that only these 100 advertisers can post, and you don't have a fucking board anymore.

Problem solved!

This should have been a private discussion between the advertiser and the board.

If the advertiser wants more for his money, the advertiser should tell the person he gives the money to.

Posting it into the open forum like this is only going to generate bad PR for the poster. I have no idea of the actual numbers but there must be many thousands of non-advertisers for every advertiser here so it was hardly likely to gain overwhelming public support was it?



:2 cents:

amen!!!!!

Not saying small programs should NOT have the right to promote themselfs but Advertisers should have some sort of priority like a first class top 10 post on first page.

If you don't think you're getting enough bang for your buck, then stop advertising.

ALSO Keep in mind without PAID ADVERTISMENT the small programs would NOT have a GFY to promote their program

How many people here are now joining other boards, simply in anticipation of some dumbass posting change JUST POSSIBLY going down here in the near future?

To publicly hint at changing the balance of this board in this way is almost as fucking stupid as selling ads to thieving tubes.

I'm going to google "adult webmaster boards" right now, and register with as many as I can, just in case this board finally blows itself up.

How much money in advertising will you get when the only participants are a few dozen advertisers, all advertising to themselves.

Fucking stupid!

we have a small ad package for each of our programs to make announcements and such. if for nothing else, i do it to support gfy and to help keep it all alive and healthy. different people find different value in different ad packages. my views about boards are not what they were in 2005 or even 2007, but i still find value in supporting the community with whatever i feel is justifiable for the return on investment. everything is changing, including views on advertising and roi on it. i know one thing, i never ever ever want to moderate a forum. ever. i'm sure that eric will come to something amicable for everyone, he always does. that's why he's the head zookeeper.

:)

What is this FREE concept you are talking about... Do you honestly think without all the advertising revenue Playboy would of kept a board like GFY running on a Free model :1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

Also craigslist have a paying model, you pay for your add and you get better placement... Basically what Dave is asking GFY.

Give the advertisers their own special little board on the forum where nothing but paid advertisers can post. See how much traffic that forum winds up getting :1orglaugh

Yeah, really - how fucking STUPID would that plan be?!

easily said, you work for someone that can pay big bucks. try running your own business, pay your own employees, rent, taxes, equipment etc.

and then decide whether you want to spend $3000 this month to pay a banner on GFY or pay your office rent and a broken flashlight.

Non advertiser announcements, not just regular posts/threads lol!

Come on guys....

GFY is successful now. and doing everything right . that is why is is popular. keep it as it is

"Free" as in as it stands at the moment , small programs can post their announcements on this main forum page .
I have posted my launch of a new site on this main page before .
This is "FREE" , programs can post their new promo tools This is "FREE" , programs
post their special payout promo days This is "FREE" . LOL , you do know this forum is "Free" right ?

On a side note , about Craigslist, are you sure about paid top listings ? If so , show me the proof and how abouts i go doing this .
I don't think what you are saying exist. If they have this option , I would be much interested in using this feature for my mainstream bizz .

webgurl consider this..
Lets say you have banners blocked. You have avatars and sigs off.

If the board is unskinned, then you've got paying advertisers with stickies seperating them from non advertisers who could have 3 threads right below the sticky. If they are allowed a full url in the thread title, they'd be getting more eyes than the paying advertiser.

I'm trying to exercise that devils advocate voice here ya know? Seeing all sides and all that jazz?

No you are assuming I missed his point and your assumption is wrong. I was commenting on his example of newspapers and assimilating it with this current issue. What i said was correct also, free ads in a newspaper and in magazines are at the back, not side by side with the high paid spots...



Why does everyone keep bringing up this $3000/month up anyway? I thought we are all caught up on the fact that there are cheaper advertising methods available here?

We all on the same page that nobody is suggesting that we make this an advertiser only forum at least?

because while the profitability of the top banner or under the quick reply box might be already questionable, i think that a 120x60 at the bottom is totally pointless. i even had to look if they are still there before i posted this

if i would consider being a sponsor it would be a top banner or nothing. and i can't afford a top banner

For certain services they charge between 5$-10$

Well you do, if you are a paying advertiser you can get stickys at the top. I might be wrong but I believe you need to be a buyer to get that.

I need a BJ