Originally Posted by degban (Post 16591338)

Thanks for giving me a heads up, I don't own anything really we fight piracy and we stop pirates! But you are welcome to try to steal my stuff!

Originally Posted by darksoul (Post 16591332)

At this point we are talking about a hard DVD, not a digital copy. Please follow the thread if you want to add something meaningful.

Originally Posted by marketsmart (Post 16591341)

Bro, i would never steal for you... I will PIRATE you... big difference... :thumbsup

Originally Posted by degban (Post 16591339)

Because if they watch it in full the chances are they are not likely to buy it and that will make the producer go broke and steal a TV!

Originally Posted by degban (Post 16591185)

Recently through the nature my business I have came into close contact with piracy and content pirates and I can not fathom the mentality of pirates and leechers! As a computer scientist, I have tried to always pay for the license and when I couldn’t use the open source alternative version. This was partly due to respect to my fellow IT men who work hard on the products and a doze of healthy fear of conviction; I extended this attitude to multimedia products as well.
So when I first encountered piracy I told myself that it is some impulse reaction of some consumers who think, because they have paid a lot of money for something they have to share it with others so everyone else can use it. But lately I have encountered more than a bunch of people that do this thing with a burning passion. There are people who produce over dozens of pirated material everyday and put the time to distribute them all over the web. Why would you want to do it, is completely over my head, Now what is worse is seeing some people charging money for access to their pirated material. You might ask why is all this strange to you. Le me give you an example.
Out of any bunch of normal people it is very hard to find people who would just randomly walk into a TV store and pick a TV set up and use it, and defiantly there would be less people who would sell it after taking it. Now say you catch one of these people who did it. The person will confess that he is thief and everyone else will agree with is. You can not find people who would defend stealing they might justify it but will not defend the act it self. Now let’s look at media piracy. out every handful of people almost everyone would gladly use any form of pirated material and some few will try to make money but the thing that is most painful is if you accuse them of theft not only they believe they have not stolen anything but also will fight tooth and nail to prove they are innocent and what they did was innocent! You can never hear that in a court hearing about bank robbery people are using the bill of rights or privacy acts and laws about freedom of speech to justify their actions or get away free from theft charges, but when it comes to piracy they will do it gladly and make the producer look like fat cats who are greedy! And at the end you the hard working producer comes out looking like an ass! Like when Metallica tried suing the pirates! They lost a lot of their fans! Why people think piracy is any different from theft? What moral element is missing in this equation?
Any opinions?

Originally Posted by darksoul (Post 16591352)

I don't really think you are following this thread and its really a shame.
First of all, there is noone to stop me from sharing that dvd in full with my friends.
Second of all let me redirect you to a few posts ago: http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showpo...5&postcount=14
Where you agreed to the fact that I could share it with an unlimited number of people, if we follow some criteria.
We are now trying to establish that criteria but you are starting to contradict yourself and we're just running in loops.
So we are again back at two options:
1. You don't want to have a meaningful discussion based on logic and thats ok, I can forget about this thread
2. You want to debate this problem and you can address my post at http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showpo...5&postcount=29 with an option you can argument till the end.

Originally Posted by darksoul (Post 16591332)

At this point we are talking about a hard DVD, not a digital copy. Please follow the thread if you want to add something meaningful.

Originally Posted by gideongallery (Post 16591362)

because quite simply piracy is not theft.

when you take a tv out of a store, the store loses possession of the tv
when i make a copy and give it to some one else the original is still in possession of the original owner

that the point, the fundamental difference, copyright infringement is a FRAUD (claiming you have using rights when you do not) not theft.

The only reason copyright lobbies are like the RIAA are trying to reclassify it as theft is because they want to ignore fair use (the copyright granted right to use the content )

They want to argue that if you don't have permission from the copyright holder you never have permission at all, which is absolutely not true, all fair use is authorized even if the copyright holder doesn't want it to be.

Originally Posted by degban (Post 16591369)

I think the issue here more the sharing bit! Yes you are right, no one will stop you from sharing your DVD with friends and family, Which in prev post I made clear If I was the right owner would not like to you share the dvd you bought from me with your friends in full however I am more than happy if you want to run a preview session of course no one will do this and they will go ahead and share it with friends and I as producer will learn to live with it , my problem is as soon as you share they will either copy the DVD or they will stop buying, So to sum up : No I don't want people who didn't pay to enjoy my production , and no I wont go after people who only share DVD, but I will go after the people who copy or sell it digitally or physically, now my question is how can you guarantee that these poor friends of yours are not goign to resell or copy or uplaod this dvd of mine that you bought from me a small price?

Originally Posted by gideongallery (Post 16591362)

because quite simply piracy is not theft.

when you take a tv out of a store, the store loses possession of the tv
when i make a copy and give it to some one else the original is still in possession of the original owner

that the point, the fundamental difference, copyright infringement is a FRAUD (claiming you have using rights when you do not) not theft.

The only reason copyright lobbies are like the RIAA are trying to reclassify it as theft is because they want to ignore fair use (the copyright granted right to use the content )

They want to argue that if you don't have permission from the copyright holder you never have permission at all, which is absolutely not true, all fair use is authorized even if the copyright holder doesn't want it to be.

Originally Posted by gideongallery (Post 16591387)

definition of theft



definition of fraud



until you can show how the making of a copy denies the owner of that original (not just damages them by costing them the income from selling additional copies-- see second quote) piracy will never be theft.

Originally Posted by darksoul (Post 16591382)

Ok, this is the second time you can't answer a question and you're trying to answer with something else. Therefore I will answer your initial question and be done with it:
Q: Why is it hard to convince people that privacy is theft ?
A: Because you can't follow simple logic.

Have a good day.

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon (Post 16591391)

How is fraud any better than theft though? If this is some kind of argument to legitimise piracy I'd say thats a massive fail. Both are illegal, both can you arrested. Both can get you time in jail.

Originally Posted by gideongallery (Post 16591387)

definition of theft



definition of fraud



until you can show how the making of a copy denies the owner of that original (not just damages them by costing them the income from selling additional copies-- see second quote) piracy will never be theft.

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon (Post 16591375)

Fair use is not distributing on the internet though. Fair use is showing it to friends in the privacy of your own home. Most definitely fair use does not come into play any time a profit is being made.

Originally Posted by gideongallery (Post 16591362)

because quite simply piracy is not theft.

when you take a tv out of a store, the store loses possession of the tv
when i make a copy and give it to some one else the original is still in possession of the original owner

Originally Posted by gideongallery (Post 16591401)

bullshit

the US supreme court just recently ruled that timeshifting was legal in a cloud

that cloud included the segments of the internet

that company has hundreds of thousands of customers of that RPVR service

and the company that provide that service turns a profit on that offering


so you are wrong on all three counts,

what you just said is exactly the problem i am talking about, reclassifying it as theft to try and squash fair use on the new technology.

if you define it as fraud you don't have that problem
because you realize that every person who subscribes to that RPVR service has a right to those shows, (because they bought the cable , and have the right to timeshift it)

which totally removes the deception since they actually have the right.

Originally Posted by Dirty Dane (Post 16591410)

Technically, the word 'piracy' could cover both situations.

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon (Post 16591391)

How is fraud any better than theft though? If this is some kind of argument to legitimise piracy I'd say thats a massive fail. Both are illegal, both can you arrested. Both can get you time in jail.

Originally Posted by degban (Post 16591398)

Fraud or theft my point is why no one feels guilty for leeching and pirating ?
what difference does it make what we call it ? you didn't pay for it you cant use it it is that simple?

Originally Posted by degban (Post 16591399)

Okay lets say it is fraud ! are you saying it is right ? and people shouldn't feel guilty about it?

Originally Posted by gideongallery (Post 16591401)

bullshit

the US supreme court just recently ruled that timeshifting was legal in a cloud

that cloud included the segments of the internet

that company has hundreds of thousands of customers of that RPVR service

and the company that provide that service turns a profit on that offering


so you are wrong on all three counts,

what you just said is exactly the problem i am talking about, reclassifying it as theft to try and squash fair use on the new technology.

if you define it as fraud you don't have that problem
because you realize that every person who subscribes to that RPVR service has a right to those shows, (because they bought the cable , and have the right to timeshift it)

which totally removes the deception since they actually have the right.

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon (Post 16591391)

How is fraud any better than theft though? If this is some kind of argument to legitimise piracy I'd say thats a massive fail. Both are illegal, both can you arrested. Both can get you time in jail.

Originally Posted by Dirty Dane (Post 16591410)

Technically, the word 'piracy' could cover both situations.

Originally Posted by degban (Post 16591422)

This is very true

Originally Posted by gideongallery (Post 16591434)

no it can not

they are exact opposites, 1 removes the original the second does not

there is no way possible for it to cover both extremes.

Originally Posted by gideongallery (Post 16591425)

never said it "legitimise piracy" it only legitimizes fair use that has been misclassifed as piracy.



but your talking about targeting things that can fall into the fair use space

like using a torrent like a vcr, i do pay for the shows (when i pay my cable bill) when i use the torrents to timeshift tv shows i am using just like my parents used a vcr.

it just a better vcr, because it has infinite hard drive space (swarm) never misses a show, never fails to tape.

no tv producer loses any income from this act because if i didn't use the torrents i would have PVRd the show anyway, and they would have gotten paid for those commercial spots anyway.




never said it was right, when you take something you didn't pay for it wrong,

my only problem is that when you try and reclassify piracy as theft you take away rights from people
rights established by the courts
rights to use the new technology in a legitimate (fair use way)

you hinder growth (like cheap solid state disk -- because of format shifting)

or like the previous response

Originally Posted by degban (Post 16591443)

Ok you are missing my point I am not talking about people who have cable and download the same things that were On cable people Who I am talking about are those who pay one month subscription at milfhunter and then download the whole collection cancel their membership and put the whole site rip on the net. Now more than 100k of users who never paid for anything will come and download it and never pay a penny to milfhunter. is it fair? or does it fall under fair usage really?

Originally Posted by Dirty Dane (Post 16591440)

So you say that the original Jolly Rogers were copying all their shit?

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon (Post 16591375)

Fair use is not distributing on the internet though. Fair use is showing it to friends in the privacy of your own home. Most definitely fair use does not come into play any time a profit is being made.

Originally Posted by L-Pink (Post 16591463)

Can you pick the guy that's into time-shifting?

http://i768.photobucket.com/albums/x...ePackage-1.jpg


.

Originally Posted by gideongallery (Post 16591462)

the original person had to have bought the content, how else would they have gotten it.

Originally Posted by gideongallery (Post 16591434)

no it can not

they are exact opposites, 1 removes the original the second does not

there is no way possible for it to cover both extremes.

Originally Posted by Arnox (Post 16591466)

Originally Posted by L-Pink (Post 16591543)

Broke ass losers will forever argue about their "right" to download the property of others. Property they can't afford otherwise.


.

Originally Posted by L-Pink (Post 16591543)

Broke ass losers will forever argue about their "right" to download the property of others. Property they can't afford otherwise.

Originally Posted by degban (Post 16591556)

Why is it so hard to convince people that piracy is a criminal offence and is morally wrong! thats all really

Originally Posted by darksoul (Post 16591197)

See, your mind is playing tricks on you.
What sane people considers walking into a TV store and stealing a TV set to be the same as sharing something I own.
Say I bought a book, buy your logic I shouldn't share it with anyone because it would be stealing ?
You crack me up.