And you should have it in your TOS that these "antics" aren't acceptable. But you don't, so instead you decide to let me run my campaign for another 3 months WITHOUT closing my account, WITHOUT sending me any warning, and then deciding to not pay me the money that I am rightfully owed.

Spot on. That traffic shoehorn sent you cost him $ too.

After this I wouldn't even look at dealing with you. You come across as shonky as your suit.

i hope Shoehorn sues your filthy ass on PRINCIPLE.

pay him.

and then hope he dont buy up all those spots and send them to other companys wholl pay him with out thinking twice for the traffic.

Send all crackhead traffic my way.

All of this has been explained to Shoehorn while he was lying about what keywords he purchased. Stating that the domain name wasn't purchased and that he was using other misspelled versions.

After many discussions it has been proven that the only "performance" his PPC campaign had was our own domain name.

So now we have a lying affiliate that misrepresented his campaigns complaining about not getting paid for siphoning our typeins.

He was kind enough to send a screenshot that proved what keywords were purchased and proved that he was lying and misrepresenting his campaign to us.

Now he is misrepresenting the issue to others

Well at least now, other programs will know to look out for this kind of shady business.

It's not in your TOS so you are clearly in the wrong for not paying Shoehorn... you just can't change the rules as you go... oh wait this is the adult industry... that happens everyday!!

pay the man.

So lets say I'm first in google for "tampa bukkake" or "tampabukkake", the first spot organically not pay per click, will you pay for sales then?

from my view i dont think hes being shady at all.

to me, you not paying him seems shady.

thats just how im looking at it honestly.

and again, you are going to make an enemy out of a guy who can just as simply take that same traffic supply and pump it say.. right to the guy 2 posts up.. wholl take it no questions asked.. and pay on it with out a word...

course by far do not allow me to tell you how to run your biz, but cut to the chase question. you gonna pay him or not?

This DirtyD guy is a complete scumbag and needs a sharp pencil shoved in his eye. What a cheat.:2 cents:

In google adwords right now, setting up PPC campaigns with his exact domain keywords and sending them to other programs.....GFY

I know more that allow it than don't allow it. Do some quick searches for any number of your favorite paysites and you will see.

It has been the topic of heated discussion here before, and the consensus was most programs allow it. At the end of the day, it is your program and your rules. You do make the call.

Really? because I typed in two search phrases with "crack whore confessions" and i dont see your site listed in the top few. The second one, your not even on the first page!

So how would bidding on that term steal type in sales? Maybe from rabbit reviews, but not from your site if your not even listed. I can see if he is bidding on exact match on the domain or even the site, but if its phrase or broad match, I don't see why you wouldn't pay him as here is proof there is traffic that is not siphoning your type-ins

search for "free pictures from crack whore confessions"
http://vj3.com/images/cwc2.jpg

search for "is crack whore confessions worth joining?"
http://vj3.com/images/cwc1.jpg

Honestly I have no beef with you Dirty D and your business but I think there are other ways to bring in more traffic with bidding on names. Ive been doing this for a long time and make a good amount of money from it. Also, I spend 95% of my day working in AdWords for client accounts spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on similar searches and respond with the same when they ask "why are we bidding on our own name?"

Truth is there is 1000s of other searches containing your name that you are not showing up for. IMO, i would strickly say you can NOT bid on the exact name and domain name and call it a day, otherwise a lot of people are going to look negatively on this :2 cents:

On another note... in 2009, running a search for damn near any paysite name will yield a very high amount of results listing torrent and tube sites.

I am about 2 seconds away from posting the screenshot I sent to you. Of course since you can't comprehend PPC campaigns, I'll tell you that if I post it its going to show other people the keywords I was bidding on as well as how the performed for the month of November, which they can then bid on to send the traffic someplace else.

You know for a fact that I sent you legitimate sales using a proven method, which I was paid for over a period of 3 months. Then you decided to change your mind about paying me for whatever reason, although nothing about keyword bidding was ever mentioned in your TOS, and not say anything about it to me. You let me run my campaign for another 3 months, and then when I contacted you about the money I was owed you said that I violated your terms that don't exist.

mr shoehorn is clever and as he wasnt doing anything wrong, you have to pay him and then change your rules so you will not cry anymore ... crap, i dont see whats this about ... pay the man!

You got it.

Wow. this sux

300 bucks and this will all go away.

i allow it and encourage it - they do the work for me, they spend the money on the campaign. there is NOTHING to say that the sales he sent you through his PPC traffic using the site's keywords would have turned into type-in sales. porn mostly is an impluse purchase, his PPC ad caught their attention and you got a sale.

i know some site owners hate when affiliates use their names/trademarks to outrank them in the serps and to run PPC ads but my answer to them is - don't run an affiliate program, if your attitude/viewpoint is that affiliates are your competitors then simply don't have an open affiliate program.

i agree. take the keywords and typins and sent the joins to another program.

some programs get pissy - stupidly - when you do what you did. little do they consider you can do the same marketing and send it to a close competitor.

Exactly. Its about selling the consumer the product before they have time to change their mind, and wading through several pages of search results that often don't include exactly what they are looking for gives them plenty of time to see something they DON'T like and change their mind. :2 cents:

seen this coming

Dirty D always pays me, and I use my team of chinese credit card hackers every time.

I think you should know, someone named "Dirty D" is probably not very offended by being called filthy.

Omfg It's not in your TOS! Pay the man quit losing business dork!

he deserves to get paid, this is a valid promotional method. only a few sponsors don't allow this - and they say so in their terms.

Johnny are the sales you sent coming from buying CRACK WHORE CONFESSIONS itself?
I would say that IF that is the exact term you used then of course you did NOT send any new sales to Dirty D that he wouldn't have already had.

Now if you used variations then yes that would be acceptable.

But if it was just "crack whore confessions" then that is traffic that he already ranks number one on Google for and represents signups that he would already have gotten.

No need for the surfer to search through pages and pages...he's number one for his own site name.

And for continuing the Ad Words campaign on that specific term and trying to send traffic somewhere else...bro, you know that would be a huge money loser. If somebody is SPECIFICALLY looking for the site "Crack Whore Confessions" they aren't going to buy another site that you send the traffic to. It's all about targeting it.

I would say that if you did an ad campaign for the term "Crack Whore" or any variation then you could say that's ok. But the actual site name isn't really putting any NEW eyes on his site...which is what we are paid to do as affiliates.

On another note...I see lots of TOS that forbids ANY Ad Words campaigns.

I hope you guys work it out. I like both of you. :)

Dirty ain't paying ? WTF ? there must be something wrong here... We don't know all the facts i guess.

Your examples are fine and acceptable SEM.

These are not ONLY the exact spelling of the domain name.
These are keyphrases that involve more than the domain name.

In fact, only three of the 27 keyphrases that shoehorn was using are a problem.
However all of the sales came from the typein of the domain.

Users all have toolbars, many don't know difference between the address bar and the search bars.

you can promote us anytime :)

Exactly.

Send us additional traffic and sales - you get paid.

We have been paying for 10+ years.
Nothing has changed.

And your TOS said nothing about that, AND you paid me for the same type of promotion for 3 months, then decided to stop paying me without warning.

This is about the fact that you stopped paying me for no reason (according to your TOS) without any forewarning or even an email telling me to stop my campaign. Instead you let me run the campaign until I emailed you asking about the money I was owed.

Yeah, until you decide that you don't like the way the affiliate is promoting you, then you stop paying without warning.

after 10+ years of paying things changed

ummm, why not just ask google to put him lower than you as you should have trademark.......

my understanding is they do this..... maybe I'm wrong? trademark does have some weight though

then let him bid whatever he wants.....

Figh Fight Fight!

Google will also allow him to forbid certain keywords from being bid on all together. But of course he didn't do this, he would rather an affiliate send him sales and not pay.

if they click on the link it is actual traffic.

I've seen many marketing studies which show that purchasing paid search units for keyword which you are already ranking #1 on produces additional traffic and sales which wouldn't have been generated with the #1 organic spot alone.

My opinion is that the sites did receive the additional traffic and sales that dirty d says are needed to get paid and, accordingly, shoehorn should get paid out on them.

looks like the only person who dont think shoehorn should get paid is dirtyd

Am I the only who finds a lot of what's been written, confusing?

One guy saying he's getting $150 PPS, then $100 PPS when in fact, he's getting $30 PPS. -> man, PPS means "pay per signup" NOT "monthly payout on all accumulated sales"

And the other guy claiming that the first guy is "buying his domain name" in adwords. -> the domain name is "crackwhoreconfessions.com" and NOT "crack whore confessions" <- that title is free game.

Suffice to say that if the second guy really wanted to prevent affiliates promoting his "domain name" in adwords, he'd have put it in the TOS for the first guy to see.

So, PAY THE MAN and move on!

unless you have it in TOS, it's paysite's owner job to rank #1 for the sites he run. if he doesn't someone else will and monetize that.

i would be interested to see that. link or what to google?

:thumbsup

d bags dont pay

:1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

I don't know what's funnier - your post or your hair.

Do you really think that everyone typing in 'crack whore confessions' is looking for the site? Maybe they're looking for content, review / related sites to pump their piston too?

The wording / sales text used DOES bring new eyes to sites. :2 cents:

:2 cents:

That is not in our TOS either... lol


If it is not in the TOS you can cheat... Everyone knows that.

Agreed.
:thumbsup