why is the doc so scared of an honest review?

lots of good points many already being planned, we recorded the cancellations too and trying to figure out how to organize it, another example how webmasters dont understand how many surfers dont know how to cancel even thou in most cases its so simple (some are hell to cancel).

well the other part of whats coming to the site will generate traffic, the aff program, some paid spots online and some other thing we are doing ill post a sample in a few days.

new concept will be lots of trial and error and open to any and all advice good or bad

thanks

Damn that is a kick ass site. Can't wait to submit our sites :thumbsup

I know you want to avoid using any sort of rating system, but I think you could at least flag sites as "Good, Bad, Ugly" or "Gold, Silver, Lead" or something. At least to know:

-We got spammed
-We got charged more
-Couldn't cancel easily
-etc

And you could give some kind of clear icon or something to indicate this. That way the user can save time and easily skip the really bad ones.

This is what i'm thinking. What kind of customer has to watch a fucking video of your site rather than go there himself? What happened to joining a porn site being an impulse buy cuz you need good jerk off material?

It is a good site though, very well done.

I'm scared trolls like you will find me out, of course.

first thanks

and to answer your question "What happened to joining a porn site being an impulse buy cuz you need good jerk off material?"

What happened is the surfer got scammed and fucked, either by bullshit billing or by not getting any content worth a damn in the members areas. Signups are on decline not just because of free porn and the economy, they are mostly due because surfers have fear of joining. After all porn memberships are cheap, but no one wants to lose money.

Time will tell.

Clearly you don't have a clue about the review business... the worst reviews, point out fraud, have comments that are filled with reports that the consumer was had, and people still join.


1000's of times higher than a paysite/program banging out cards. I have had a new cc have fraud on it before I ever used it, twice. Visa/MC Cancel millions of cards a year that get stolen from work PC's at the banks and crap....



Ok? I know they will just be posting a review.. it's the other stuff were talking about.

You act as if this is the first review site to give honest reviews or tell what the surfer is buying.


1) Pre-checks Cross Sales aren't fraud... VISA/MC allow them because they aren't fraud. It's "your opinion" that they are otherwise. No stats, no chargebacks, refunds, or complaints backup your "theory."

2) ANY marketing email with an opt-out and header space for porn included - is 100% legal and not fraud at any level. Even if I sent 1000 emails, cancel emails, follow ups, offers, discounts... NONE of that is spam.

3) Neither of the above is any type of fraud. Nothing wrong with showing fraud, as I have already stated several times.


The list of programs doing this over the years is, well... small. The number of programs that have been defrauded by the consumer, affiliates and others... is damn near 100%.


Back to reality... were review sites already change the reviews based on what the program says. You're trying to argue what is already fact.

I agree with you on that. It's a shame that a porn consumer now has to use sites like yours to protect himself from getting screwed.

As I said before...this site is great!

But I think we're getting a little out there to suggest that a porn consumer HAS to use a review site to not get "screwed"

That's a great selling point to surfers for the review sites. Matter of fact it is THE selling point. And a good marketing tool.

But the consumer is never really screwed. It's a simple little thing called "chargeback"

Seems to work everytime. :)

I wasn't really commending livereviews for their ability to HURT paysites. But more on how nice the site is, and how by not having an opinionated view but rather letting the surfer see for himself...it could HELP sales.

Seems the GFY "gotcha" crowd is already drooling over the thoughts of causing paysites to lose money instead. lol

Maybe one day we won't have any programs left to promote by that logic. Then we can all just put up links for the ONE program that will be left and doesn't do any "shady" billing practices: Brazzers. :1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

Just sayin', I see this as a positive review site. Not an opportunity to slam the programs that actually pay us all.

Edit: By the way, I wasn't calling bdeforest one of the "gotcha crowd" I was referring to the general prevailing mood of GFY lately. Seems to be more hatefest than business

No not all of us paysite owners screw over the surfer. I've always been one to operate with full disclosure and with the mind set that the user should be paying attention to what they are buying. But, there always has been and always will be shady billing practices, including flat out theft in this industry. So, it's those gun shy customers that have been fucked over once already that will find this service to be most beneficial imo. And to me, that is a shame.

Ya gotta admit that Doc has a point...the percentage of adult companies that have screwed consumers is very small.

The amount of adult companies that GET screwed by consumers via unwarranted chargebacks is 100%

I rather read. Too much in a rush to go thru a video, may be I'm a little old fashioned in that aspect

yeap, if they have a problem with people pointing out what they are doing to the customer, then they shouldn't be doing it. If you want to triple blind cross sale a customer, fine but at least own up to it. Don't get made because someone is going to actually warn people you are doing it.

Put a spot light on them all and let the good ones shine and the bad ones be exposed.

Unbelievable..... How can anyone promote "revshare" for a site that bangs the customer so fucking hard that they are going to cancel everything. Not to mention if are only getting "revshare" on one of main membership and not on any of the banging...

people who do this shit should be shot and visa should shut them down.

This isn't just going to be a benefit to surfers.... It is also a benefit to affiliates. Before I promote a site for revshare I would love to know how they treat the customer. If they fuck the customer and I am on revshare I am never going to make much money. Sure if they offer high PPS then it is up to the affiliate if they care about their customers or not, to whether they would still promote that company. This will be helpful info for affiliates as well.

Your site converts 1:10 and does 100 sales a day from tube traffic?

Piracy traffic, not tubes...and ' I have' vs 'still do'..then again, I don't work the source like I did. Anyway, my answer was more to point out that review sites don't have some unique source of quality simply because they are reviews.

I would say the percentage of adult programs that screw their customers as defined by the members of the GFY community opposed to pre-checked cross-sales and that shit that Biggy and Ivo are pulling at TeenGFS, is quite high. The percentage of surfers screwed based on visa's current regulations, not that big.

IMO, you statement is flawed. There are 7 Billion people in the world. 1000 adult programs. So, your numbers are correct, but the meaning of them is meaningless.

Oh, and also, "two wrongs don't make a right." :-)

The traffic from them converts at a better ratio than most sources I've experienced. Second only to members area traffic. IMHO.

Someone going to a review site is ready to buy something. Freeloaders could not care less about review sites.

Well, we don't have 7 billion people online, and out of them only half have a credit card, and half of them have never used it online, and less than half of them have ever purchased adult.

I have a personal list of full contact details of almost 1000 standalone programs, we have about double that if you include language/country dependent programs. Then our Industry has well over 10,000 processor based programs across the top few processors in America alone, let alone the Int ones.


Don't doubt the size of our Industry... don't doubt how honest the majority really are. In my opinion, the more in the spotlight they are, the bigger chance the have of screwing people over.

Torrents? Come one spill the beans if you are not working it anymore. hehe


Reviews sites IMO only seem to convert so well cause
1. the consumer is looking for your site anways.
2. traffic is so targetted and filtered down. They rarely click unless they are going to join.


Ever notice when a site is listed as new on a review site it will send few 100 clicks a day but rarely make sales.
We are talking about very low volume of traffic when its converting at 1:20 or what ever your normal review listings convert at.

I have posted it before... it still works too. It works on Tubes too, the problem being you need to get on more tubes, quickly.

I use a mixture of piracy sources and pirate my own content, in controlled ways to drive in sales. The main source of traffic is private forums (many of them), then public forums (20ish of them), then social media (100's of profiles, profiles for almost every domain, auto updates for almost everything), newsgroups and so on... seeding the hell out of yourself.

I post plenty of clean content, just for the chance to post a new hot girl/set with stamps, links to galleries, social pages/profiles, etc.. I will often say I got it from the members area, I'm the leak.. I then log every IP to my promo page or promo domain, I then cross reference them with members, so I can control the leaks.

I also sell the site and sell a way to get a lead, ie: emails, phone #, subscribe to free site, anything to get the lead... be creative. Like you can post a link in a forum to your SU account that has soft porn on it, that leads to an opt-in form / free site you have to subscribe to - and or - get the lead at SU, and share your submitted porn with them.

I use all the social sites to bookmark every single non-private page that has anything with my content on it too.


Really... the cycle is endless of filtering and moving the traffic to websites/features (most that you do not own) that allows you to better contact the person.

hey escort biz i submitted my paysite http://www.foxypass.com when do you think I will be able to get it reviewed by?

You're right, I don't run a review site, do you? Or is this business as usual, you know everything when you smoke a bowl.


A brand new credit card that's only been used to buy ONE membership online? :1orglaugh


Is there another review site that has screencaps of the email account after canceling a membership? Is there another review site that uses a brand new credit card each time they join a site?

Where the fuck did I say prechecked cross sales were fraud? I said prechecked cross sales, SPAM and fraud, meaning those are three shady factors livereviews has addressed which I feel are important. Way to quote a part of my post and take it way out of context. :1orglaugh

Well it better be in your terms of service that you will sell user's email addresses or send them periodic emails. Either way, letting me know that my email address will get bombarded with spam is information I'd love to be informed of if I was your average user. Once again, good job LiveReviews, suck a dick shady program owners.


Read that back to yourself and then slap yourself twice in front of a mirror. Jesus. :disgust

I was saying the percentage of PAYSITES that have been screwed by customers via unwarranted chargebacks is 100%. Not that 100% of all the people in the world did it. lol

In other words...as doc said...The percent of paysites that have screwed customers is very low. The percent of paysites that have been screwed by customers is 100%

The percent of paysites screwing consumers is not important to the industry... it's the percent of consumers who have been screwed that actually matters. If only a few paysites were screwing people but they screwed 10 million actual porn buyers the damage is done... the fact that it's not most companies doesn't make a difference to the customers who got ripped off.

Review sites are ONE method of gaining trust from consumers. They provide a useful service. Transparent tours like the ones used by Kink and VideosZ which show the buyer exactly what they get before they signup are another flgood example. Websitesecure.org is another good example. More methods are on the way as well.

There are only two reasons a person will pay for porn currently.

1. Content better than what the can find for free.
2. Confidence that the site provides #1 shown above.

The second reason is becoming increasingly important as more and more consumers get burned by sites with a business model based on faking the first reason.

Damn, I guess it's too bad that review sites weren't around when people were screwed for hundreds of millions of dollars by free sites using dialers. And somehow...we all made fortunes selling porn memberships anyway. :)

You're right though...if they can find the same content for absolutely free they never will buy. And if they do get caught up by somebody unscrupulous they can simply do a chargeback.

As I said earlier...livereviews.com is an impressive website. Not because it's going to "get the bad guys" But because it shows an un-opinionated view of a paysite. And the execution of it is a great marketing tool in my opinion.

I'm a fan of this site. I wish Dave and the rest of the crew awesome success with this and thanksyou for hiring some of the www.ocmodeling.com girls to do the reviews!!

I know what you meant. What I was saying was that there exponentially more porn buyers than there are porn sites so the odds of a program getting an unwarranted chargeback is of course, exponentially higher. What you initially said is 100% correct it just doesn't mean anything IMHO.

^^^what he said.

Kick ass! Awesome work Dave!

I hope this exposes all the frauds out there that are giving the industry a bad name and making it hard for people who do honest business.

Yeah, who hasn't had a review site by now? I can sell you a great review script if you want.

Anyway... what makes you think I smoke? You have no idea who I am or what I do, but you pretend that you know me?



Just like new issued cards get banged... and just like 99.9% of paysites don't bang cards, it's the xsale partners doing it, unknown to the site owner. So if you really wanted to help the surfer out, you would join every upsell they have.


Those features don't make the review honest...they already have a nasty site reviewed, we can see pointing that out doesn't mean anything.


oh, sorry the word shady for the word fraud, big deal... they aren't shady unless they're under the button.

A paysite owner has limits to work within, even more so on 3rd party processors. When nobody complains, when cb's/refunds are under control. 2 pre-checked xsales, isn't shady, it isn't bad, it isn't fraud... it's simply business.



I don't sell emails, I haven't heard of someone doing that in years. I don't need to put anything in my terms about emails either, it's not illegal to email/contact people, it's not illegal to send them endless offers as long as the email follows the rules.

Chances are far far far greater that if a member is getting spam from a program; then the software, the host or the processor has a leak.

All of which, can and have been hacked before.



Why? Because it's true, they will make the changes, take down reviews, etc when requested.



You guys act as if I'm attacking them...when I'm not. I have made it very clear, that pointing out actual fraud/bad shit is perfectly fine. However, I feel that pointing out what is 'allowed' and not illegal, is.... bullshit.

Did anything happen the first of the year?

yes it went out of beta and we are kicking ass thats what happened

loading 80 more reviews tonight and now working on a mega bts / funny porn video section so people come back to the site, still new still tweaking