How is forcing those people to buy from the same insurance companies going to fix that? Do you really believe that premiums will go down for any real period of time? Elective care services have decreased in cost over the years because insurance companies and the government isn't involved in the process.

Well, for one the government will be buying most of these people's insurance and paying the premiums so they will be forced to get it, but it will be paid for.

That said, I don't see premiums going down any substantial amount and I have a feeling it is going end up being a lot more expensive than they think.

The reason you can't take me seriously is because you've bought into the con hook, line and sinker. I've spent a lot of time doing my research. And I'm not talking about the government run education programs and that includes colleges. What you have been led to believe on MANY issues isn't whats really going on. I'm talking about REAL historical events they don't tell you about there. Such as your birth certificate which is an actual bond and title registered with the Department of Commerce. Now you might want to ask yourself "Why is it that they register my birth certificate with the Department of Commerce?" And "Why is it a bond?" Because they have been using those as collateral to borrow against to fund the government for years. You are linked to that "fictional corporation" further by you social security number and drivers license.

This is not some "conspiracy theory" it's a fact and a conspiracy that's been going on since 1921 as far as the birth certificate.. And even tough it caused so much controversy that the Act was allowed to expire in 1929 they have continued to do it by deception. 1936 as far as the SSN. Most of the real fucked up shit was done during Roosevelt's admin. Their game is up so they are coming up with new cons to do the same such as pay for health care of you go to jail. "Carbon credits" which taxes everything you do. Who and what did Obama and his money man Ben Bernake study? Roosevelt and the Great Depression. It's a new game of deception.

It won't.


I don't believe that they'll go down for any period of time.

But they will go up, and soon.


Here's the deal...

The Republicans had no plan whatsoever to reform health care. They never did and they never will. But the Democrats have actually managed to outdo the Republicans by coming up with an insurance company friendly plan that's even worse than no fucking plan at all.

And now, the American people have nowhere to go.

We've all been fucked royally :disgust

Let me remind all of you that are talking about "the" health care bill that there is not a health care bill. There are two health care bills that have to be reconciled into a single health care bill. There are major differences between the House Bill and the Senate bill and I personally believe that the differences will not be reconciled by the current Congress into a single bill to present to the President.

Should be obvious to everyone now its both sides that are both corrupt and they do these fake WWF battles to keep the morons from figuring out that they are playing both sides.

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

You want to bet? You want to know how they'll reconcile? They'll take all the bullshit from one bill mix it up with all the bullshit from the other and give us one huge fucking pile of bullshit. And both will say "well, we had to make a compromise. We needed to do something for 'the people'" Only they don't tell you "the people" they are talking about isn't you and I.

Too bad they don't have the money to pay for it.

http://motivateurself.files.wordpres...d-facepalm.jpg

Yeah like McCain/Palin would be sooo much better. Health care bill would be "If you're not a millionaire you are fucked and need to die" health care. Yes soooooooo much better. before you bitch about who is in charge now LOOK at what the alternative would be.

Last time I checked the rrepublcians had 6 years of total control. So they had a chance to make changes to health care and didn't. Hmmmmmmmmm. Why don't you sit and chew on that one for awhile. Actually THINK about why in 6 years not even ONE attempt was made to change health care that would benefit everyday people? I wonder why the republcians would not have been more pro-active about that?

besides I'm not sure why you are pissed. Let's say this thing is total fubared. Then the GOP will take over again and gut it. Problem solved. And if you think bought votes are new then go take a hsitory class. It used to be much worse 100 years ago. Country seem to survive it.

Where are all the lack of objective reality, Ron Paul haters now???

Then how come people don't vote libertarian or some other party? I'm tired of people who keep bitching every 2-4 years how corrupt the system is when they keep supporting that same 2 party system. 1/3 of the population is supposedly independant yet what do 3rd party candates get? 1%-2% of the vote? Anyone that voted either democrat or republican needs to STFU until they vote for someone else.

Well. . . there is that one tiny little detail :)

I have been saying the same for a long time. If everyone that complained about only have 2 options during the election actually voted for 3rd party candidates, we would have a 3rd party.

People like to bitch, but really don't want actual change. That and about half the population doesn't really give a damn about anything other than what is on TV that night.

Because the mainstream media is owned by the same people who own both parties. They decide who wins and it's propagated via said media. Glenn Beck is a great example of the two faced media. Back during the elections he was talking down on Ron Paul like all of the other talking heads on TV. Now he acts like he's his best friend. They know Obama is going to be a 1 term President and they also know the Democrats are signing their own pink slips. So what they do is put the Glenn becks on TV and capture those frustrated with whats going on so they can turn them in the direction they want them to go. Whether that be candidates down the road or sell them on something in another form. A great example with Glenn Beck is he's calling for a 2% tax across the board to "pay down the debt" well guess who else is calling for a 2% tax across the board? The Democrats with the "carbon tax" scam

Here's a guy who can see through the BS

When one looks at the other parties...what there platform is...and who the nominees are...one can pretty much understand why people do not vote for third party candidates...but I too would like to see the rise of a third party...I am just not sure that any of the existing third parties should be one to rise.

We have a government that is "for the people and by the people"...so people can change the direction of government...when ever the majority of the people choose to...but one has to remember that what ever direction government takes...whom ever is elected to office...it will still be people in charge and the nature of the human animal will prevail. That is to say that greed...corruption...dishonesty...and abuse of power will prevail as it is the nature of the human animal.

200% agree. it doesnt matter who is in power, they all suck

Correction we have a government for the corporations and by the corporations. Did you know you were a corporation?


It's time to rid nature of those types of "human animals". Do you know what the legal definition of human being?

human being See MONSTER.
—Ballentine's Law Dictionary (1930)

monster A human being by birth, but in some part resembling a lower animal. A monster hath no inheritable blood, and cannot be heir to any land.
—Ballentine's Law Dictionary (1930)


Hmm you would be amazed at how much you don't know.. Imagine that "english" that looks like English but has an entirely different meaning.. I think they cal it legalese.

I wouldn't be so fast to say that Democrats will be out of power and that Obama is a one term president. For the most part people don't care about the national debt or the budget deficit. People care about their lives. If they look around and see that they have a decent house and a decent job and a decent car and if the future looks good for them, then they aren't in an all fired hurry for change to come around.

Many of those that right now are screaming the loudest are primarily right wingers who have been herded into the "tea party" under the guise that they are doing something great. In the end those people will put their support behind some republican candidate. It might be Ron Paul, but Ron Paul really has no actual interest in being president so he will lose and they will eventually support someone like Romney or, God forbid, Palin. They are nothing new and they only make up a small percent of the population.

It is very hard to beat an incumbent president. It is almost impossible to beat him if he is popular. Obama's future is in his hands. There will be a health care bill which, conveniently, won't really start to go into action until after he runs for a second term so if it sucks he doesn't have to deal with that during the election. If the situation in Iraq/Afghanistan is getting better and the economy is recovered/recovering and looking good in 2012, he will get re-elected. He can show health care, a recovered economy and turning the war against terror around has his achievements and he will probably win easily. That said, if things don't go his way, then he could be vulnerable.

The democrats in the house and senate are a different story. They will go home and tell the people of their districts that they have passed health care and are working to turn the economy around and that all the republicans want to do is say no to everything and keep things as they were. The question is, will the people buy it? In some areas they will and in others they won't. I predict that in 2010 they will lose seats in both the house and senate, bu they won't lose their majority.

I don't believe in a media conspiracy that pertains to them choosing a candidate and talking them up or bashing them. I believe the news is all about ratings and they cover what will give them ratings. If bashing someone or supporting someone does that, then that is what they do.

The government is composed of people...corporations are composed of people...other people can control the government and the corporations if they so choose.

I am not any longer a corporation...I used to be a corporation...and I really do not have any interest in your BS explaining to me why you think I am a corporation.

I also have zero interest in anything that may be printed in "Ballentine's Law Dictionary (1930)".

To rid nature of those "types" of human animals...one would have to exterminate 99% of mankind and even then I suspect the nature of the human animal would still prevail.

Pretty much hits the nail on the head.

You should care about all of the above because that's what they think of you. And you are a corporation and you don;t even know it. That's how they are dealing with you in every thing you do. You are right they are representing a corporation not YOU the "man or woman" who unbeknown to you is considered a corporation. YOU have been registered with the Department of Commerce and every bill you receive is addressed to said corporation not YOU. If you go to court in most circumstances your "corporation" is being brought to court not YOU. You are only representing said corporation and there again unbeknown to you are acting as surety. Corporations are fictitious entities and only a fictitious entity can deal with another fictitious entity. Get it? The only "We the People" there is in this whole scam is those who are in on the scam.

You cannot restrain yourself...now can you? I told you that I have no interest in a BS/nutty explanation of why you think I am a corporation. Besides if all of the BS that you spew daily were to in fact be true it does not affect my life one way or another.

I am financially fixed for life...what I want I have or can buy...in case of a extreme event I have a place/plan and my dog and I can survive indefinitely...other than my health problems I am perfectly contented.

"They"...are not in control of my life. I am in control of my life...got it sport?

Because of those FACTS your life WILL be (and already has been) affected You can bank on it. Better get you and your pooch ready. Instead of thinking about yourself if you have any young family members maybe you should consider what you're leaving them with.

This is true but if the economy doesn't get better (for real people) anytime soon the future won't be looking so good.

And if we get a return of Jimmy Carter style stagflation, like some economists are predicting, the future will look downright grim.


Actually it's the best parts of the health care bill (like covering people with pre-existing conditions) that won't kick in until later. Forcing everyone to buy insurance and in some cases pay up to five times more than everyone else will kick in right away.

That ain't exactly going to make the democrats too popular.


If they're smart they'll deny it and say their votes were counted wrong or something ;)


They couldn't pass decent legislation with the majority they had. Them having a smaller majority will be like them having no majority at all. They won't be able to accomplish jackshit.


The republicans have fucked us and now the democrats are doing likewise.

The only solution is a viable third party.



On this we agree.

For sure. If the economy gets worse and things spiral down further he will be in big trouble and probably won't get re-elected. I still think though that it has nothing to do with the deficit and the national debt. I have been hearing about both of these things since I was a little kid and rarely is anything actually done about them. Actual economic downturn (or even if it doesn't get worse but stays as it is) will cause Obama some serious trouble because people will want to know why he has spent billions and they are still out of work.

If the national debt and deficit are huge, people don't care. If they don't have a job, or fear they will lose their job, or the things they need to buy to live skyrocket in cost, they care very much.




I had read that most of it wouldn't roll out until 2012 with a huge piece of it not hitting until 2013 and 2014. But then there have been so many bills and so many things said I could be confused about this.

You are right though. If it does hit now and people suddenly are forced to pay more for health insurance out of their pockets they are not going to be happy.




I'm sure a lot of them will find a way to convince people that they really didn't support it even though they voted for it. :)




I agree. The problem with the democrats is that they are spineless. They should get a little bit of attitude and say, "We fucking won, this is how it is going to be. You had your chance and you fucked it up!" But they don't do that. All of them are just trying to cover their own asses and get re-elected. Term limits would help this problem greatly.





I think there are people the media likes and dislikes. Palin is a great example. She comes out of nowhere to be the VP nominee and of course the media wants to talk to her. When they finally do she comes off like an idiot. Then she gets pissed at them and berates them, says they are the problem with America and talks down to them Of course they are going to not like her and human nature is then to go after her even harder and that is exactly what they did. Obama on the other hand embraced them. He was nice to them and gave them what they wanted and they treated him well. But in the end they want ratings. That is why when a cute little kid or a sexy blond white girl goes missing it is all over the news. But when an average looking black girl does we never hear about it.

Glad I started this thread....
 

I am happy to see so much input and views in this thread. If only BOTH Republicans and Democrats were allowed in that secret room to negotiate on this bill I would have felt much better. It's not really that the bill is bad or good. It's whether we, the people, can afford it with the economy in such a shambles. I don't think so.

And, I am so disgusted with partisan politics. How can you possibly get 60 senators from different U. S. areas and diverse backgrounds adamantly say they are for this. And 40 against. Lottery odds will tell you that's near impossible. Totally partisan.

I am starting to believe we would all be better with a one party system called the Human party. No more Dem/Rep. No more Christian/Atheist. No more black/white. No more straight/gay. No more Right Wing/Left Wing. Just simply Humans.

Our golf league has 200+ members. We all can propose rule changes. We all vote by raising our hands and the majority rules. We don't need right wing/left wing, black/white, etc. in getting along. Everyone has their ideas but usually the majority is correct. Then, put it to the test of time. If it doesn't work out well ... have another vote ... as a Human.

Reid and Pelosi, in my opinion, wanted this to pass more to say "Screw you Republicans" than they wanted it to pass because they think it's right for the people. Most ALL poles show that the people, us, we by majority against spending this kind of money no matter what kind of bill it was.

One party ... honest debating ... BAN ALL LOBBYISTS FROM WASHINGTON ... and let us, the people, decide what we want to try. If it doesn't work, it's our fault and we try again by repealing it and starting over.

Why did they adamantly say "This HAS to be done NOW" when most of it don't kick in until 2012????? Why 1 AM weekend vote????? Why 60/40 partisan split????? Why payoffs to certain Senators for their vote??? Crooked, crooked, crooked.

If I wasn't 73 years old I think I might run for office as a Human Party ... no Dem ... no Rep ... No Liberal ... No Conservative ... no nothing ... simply a Human Party.

Sorry to bore you all with this and keep the comments coming. I love to hear what Humans have to say and their ideas. That's one of our basic freedoms that no one can take away ... although some would love to squelch free press.

And NO, I'm not a Glenn Beck right wing lover. His mathematics is very interesting and makes one think of what the Government is doing, both Rep and Dem's, behind our backs and looking you in the eye and grinning ... hopeing you are buying their rhetoric.

Washington has stunk for decades. Sure would love to see a Human Party void of ALL Lobbyists. At least try it out. If it doesn't work at least we can say we tried to rectify our countries problems.

Thanks for your ear and keep the comments comming. :smilie_we

Published Monday December 21, 2009

Callers give Nelson an earful

By Joseph Morton and Robynn Tysver
World-Herald Staff Writers

WASHINGTON — The phone lines were jammed and busy signals greeted callers to Sen. Ben Nelson's offices today in Washington and throughout Nebraska.

Constituents were letting the Nebraska Democrat know what they thought of his decision to back the health reform package on the verge of passing the U.S. Senate.

“Keep trying” — that's the advice to frustrated callers from Nelson's aides.

The Democrat was also at the center of attention at a rally in downtown Omaha on Sunday that drew about 1,800 people. And much of the attention was unfavorable, as opponents of the health care legislation in Congress expressed outrage with his decision to cast the crucial 60th vote in favor of the bill.

http://www.omaha.com/article/20091221/NEWS01/712219890

Please tell me you're posting from a home-made underground bunker surrounded by food rations and guns.:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

1,800 people is pretty good odds if you ask me, for a Metro area with 800,000+ people.