Yeah, or you could, say, stuff cookies to try and get sales to other offers, or do any number of things even affiliates try to get away with that are outside our terms and conditions. This is an imperfect universe and we all have to live with the reality that people try and fuck other people over any way possible and the people that get fucked over the most are people that actually believe, like we believe, that there are good honest people to work with, not just the dishonest ones that have to be reconciled in the best way possible.

The point is, whether you are an affiliate or not, our first inclination in all problems regarding our brand will be to try and work it out first so everyone is happy. If that doesn't work, well, we are one of the very few companies that when we say we are lawyering up - then people tend to take us very seriously.

If rape victims would just learn to relax during the attack then they could both enjoy the experience.

Fucking sick.
Not a cool comment at all.
:disgust

that's not a fan upload either, it's from wifebucket with a sponser link

Exactly my point. Content producers are being raped and basically told to just relax.

How does this theft/collaboration thing work again?

They want to steal content, remove/cover watermarks to add their own so they can make as much money as they can until they get caught. Then, at that point we should work with the thieves so they can continue to make more money?

It does sound fucking crazy

I would think that stealing your content and re-watermarking it is a HUGE step over an affiliate stuffing cookies.

But if all that is working out great for you guys that is awesome.

I think it's doing a disservice to your brand and to your affiliates who are trying to make sales with your sites.

I even have a banner for Homegrown Video on the top of every video page in my members area. That's members area traffic. I have zero sales.

It's time to change that out I guess. But while I was putting you up in my members area and making goose eggs, thieves were simply stealing your content and getting rewarded with new business deals.

Are you honestly comparing trademark and copyright misuse to rape?

Some good looking milfs on there.

Are you really suggesting producers who have their content stolen by thieves figure out a way to work with them?

The time for business agreements is before the theft has taken place, not after.

Maybe homegrown will re-think it when the knock comes cause their name pop ups in so many crooked companies business partner accounts. I dont get the thinking at all. Trying to partner with a thief...How much shave do you think there will be? :Oh crap

Interesting... so let me get this straight... you are saying it is ok to do something that is clearly also against our T&C just because it is not as bad as another thing that we have issues with?

I can help you get better sales - I would be happy to talk about what is going on with your traffic any day. For example, if you are sending member area traffic then allow me to suggest letting us set up a feed page so you get extra content and the traffic will convert much better. Most people with member traffic are seeing better than 1:30.

Feel free to share how many uniques you have actually sent because I am not going to publicly discuss your numbers but I have zero issue with you discussing them.

Ok, genius, what has that got to do with dealing with someone that is already a problem and already shown a severe disregard for rules and regulations?

I try to make the best of a bad situation and you and others sit in judgment like you have some sort of clue and offer zero insight into any way to make things better or offer even an inkling of an alternative.

You must exist in some sort of plastic bubble or something where things like piracy don't exist and everyone is sincere and earnest and unicorns cavort in waterfalls decorated with rainbows. Go back to your land of milk and honey. You will be safe there. Things are too scary and rough and too many compromises have to be made out here in the real world.

What are you trying to infer?

If they shave they lose. Big deal, move on. If affiliates try scamming us, big deal, move on. This is always going to be about trying to make the best of a bad situation. That is all I am trying to do and frankly I don't care if you have a problem with our modus operandi when it comes to dealing with these issues.

First, when you have been around as long as we have then you know a knock could come at any time for any reason. We have nothing to hide and have shown that time and time again in Court, where things like accounting and record keeping and all those little ethical choices a company makes come under the bright light of deposition. We welcome the opportunity to show how we do things. Try getting a law firm like Fish and Richardson to represent your company.

I say I try to work something out, even with those that have wronged me and you have a problem with that? I think you have a problem for having a problem with that, but that's your problem.

Seems like every time there is a gaggle of goose hens honking and squawking and trying to raise a fuss... you show up. What is really bothering you? :321GFY

Thank you for the acknowledgement!

I should be thanking you! Please regale me with more pearls of pissdom that I may forever be blessed by the bounty of your all encompassing wisdom into all things profound, including needlepoint, but more importantly how to deal with errant webmasters!

If you don't get it by now then you'll never get it. Explaining it would be as effective as DMCA.

I'll send you lube. I was not inferring you guys are crooks. Its just you are so willing to work with crooks. Who you think in your sage like wisdom will give you a quarter due when instead they'll give you pennies. Sorry, bra. I dont like to work. partner or party with crooks. I'd rather wait them out and watch them drop. You, however, prefer to dip in to their ass. Enjoy it.

As someone far wiser than I once said, "we all have the ethics we can afford." Ponder that for a moment and I think you'll quickly figure out why he doesn't get it.

Great quote! I like that one.

Whomever said that really doesn't understand ethics, just like the rest of you, in truth that is just self indulgent sarcasm trying to pass for irony.

Besides that, I have already proven one of you that always thinks they are taking the "ethical" high ground is actually just as ethically challenged as those this thread is about.

Give me enough time and information I bet I could do the same with a few others before this is done.

Besides that, this is not an ethical issue so much as it is a problem of stopping recurrent trademark abuse. I would rather try and turn the situation around without lawyers, which you all seem to act like you have armies of to deal with the situation but no one yet has offered any better way. I am all ears. Whenever you all get done trying to pass judgement, I would love your suggestions...

Willing?

No, unfortunately it is not really about being willing. I wish these problems would go away every bit as much as any other content company. It is about dealing with it in the best way possible to have the least amount of headache and achieve the most positive outcome possible under the circumstances.

I suspect you are not truly willing. I know it's tough. We are looking for a firm that legally monitors our content, sends out cease and desists and threatens small claims actions if they do not stop and or pay up.

Its not the best solution. But it is available. My concerns over working with the people taking your content are multi-fold.

1. Tells affiliates, "thanks for the support but I need more money and you are not cutting it."
2. Disperses your content over many sites. Waters down the exclusivity of it.
3. Tells other crooks. Ah, ok. They'll deal a deal. I steal what I want and they will come to the table if they catch me.

We produce content and work with shooters all over the world. I feel your pain. But a solution that does not cost an arm or a leg or rewards theft, must be out there.

Just remember, when you're feeling snarky...I'm on your side.:)

Question... this comment I quoted. The trend for programs is trying to get there trailers on as many tubes as possible. Are you saying trailers are watering down the exclusivity as they can be seen all over the net, or the full length ripped movies are everywhere watering it down?

Basically, I am just wondering your thoughts on trailers being offered all over the place for branding, more traffic, etc.

I think trailers are a great way to go.

Full scenes? Common sense tells me that is just foolish.

Now for site with thousands and thousands of older scenes of various girls...full scenes MIGHT be okay.

But for sites like mine where it's one girl and exclusively shot and none of it is more than 5 years old a the oldest...NO. Full scenes for free destroys what we are trying to sell.

Yeah, trailers are fine. We limit ours to 3-4 minutes and never cumshots. NO FULL SCENES.
We are finally making them now. I didnt for a long time but we do need to extend our reach.

Sorry, meant to quote you. But trailers, if properly done should heat up the viewer to point they MUST join. Thats my angle. Trying to get it right without showing too much but enough to make the cock hit the zipper. :1orglaugh

It varies but most of these tubes with pirated content won't list "sponsored" clips shorter than 5 or 6 minutes.

You are looking for a firm.

Sorry, but that is not enough.

I have been paying firms for years to deal with it and they cost more than they save in most cases. Tell me when you find one and actually start paying real money to show how serious you really are about the problem. See how long you want to pay for usually pyhrric victories...

Do that then you can actually begin to appreciate where I am coming from, not from high on your mountaintop of absolute righteousness; you need to get down in the trenches, dug out muddy pits of concessions and compromises, to appreciate the long term costs of this war to even begin to understand why we do things this way.

You are wrong on all counts:

1. This is the way to bring things in line so other affiliates are not losing out to them but competing on the same terms with hard working legit affiliates.

2. We gain better control of the content and have a better coverage that keeps brand identity which is good for everyone that benefits from the brand.

3. Tells other crooks that we will find them and find a way to fix the problem before we go to legal measures. It tells them there is a better way than stealing. Hopefully.

I think we have some in the 5 minute range, after checking. I really want to avoid the pirate tubes anyway.

When was the last time you saw a 5 minute movie trailer on TV?

Sending you a quick e-mail.

In other words you don't really have a better idea and have zero input into a solution? Thank you but if all you have is just some sort of gripe about how we deal with it, then that really doesn't do much for either of us.

Hope that soapbox you are standing on doesn't break into little bits under the weight of your self righteousness...

It wasn't my idea but it's a good one called an "Affiliate Program". It has been working fine for years that allows sellers to profit from producers.

Have we found out why Gamme are listed on the site as the owners?

I skimmed the thread but did not see it come up....

I gotta aggree with Far-L the way they at least try and get the person to work with them instead of going guns blazing. I think u have a much better chance of actully sorting it out rather than going full steam ahead into them and making them do it even more, because in their mind you are an asshole so they will do everything they can to piss you off. Dought it will work with some people but there is no harm in at least trying to work something out which benefits you both before turning it into an eye for an eye. If that dont work then its time to get the lawyers involved.

I still think it sends a message to all of us who are affiliates.

We are wasting our time.

We should just steal and make money off of ad spots. And then when we finally get "caught", we will get a "deal" with the sponsor that is much better than the average affiliate gets (the thief gets to use full scenes and we real affiliates have to try and compete with small clips and hosted galleries)

That's the point I was trying to make.
In the end it's his company and he can do what he wants. The last thing I would do is try to tell him how to run his business.

God knows if someone tries that with me I'd tell 'em to fuck off. lol

I just want to point out that it's certainly not a level playing field, and in my opinion it's hurtful.

That's why I don't play that game.

I have Remove Your Content DMCA my stuff down as best as we can, I work to keep it from being stolen in the first place, and I try to keep my members area a valuable place that is worth the monthly charge and not available for free everywhere.

I'm crazy successful like that. And I wish that all the programs that I am also an affiliate of would do the same thing so we could all make money together again.

When is the last time you saw an "ending" without paying to go to the theatre?

They'd have to sell a lot of popunders, I mean popcorn.

uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh :throwup