all those guys shooting thrice would be losing control.. crazy

In some states they are taught at the acadamy to fire until the target is down...some military teams are trained to do the same...thus if several cops...that may have been trained to fire until the target is down...were firing at the same target the target could be hit with many rounds before the target hit the ground...and even more so if full automatic weapons were being used.

This isn't a Police Academy movie with Tackleberry.

And trust me when I tell you this....YOU have no place telling me anything about firearms or tactical training.

I know that you own a few guns...but unless I am mistaken you have never been trained at a police academy or served in the military. I also doubt that you have ever shot at a human target. I served in the military for 12 years in the Airborne Infantry and engaged in Grenada...Panama...and the first Gulf War...and have used my weapon against human targets. So no...I will not trust you...thank you very much.

Actually you are pretty much dead on, so to speak. I was justifying how it could happen not that it shouldn't have happened.

.

:2 cents::2 cents::2 cents:

As usual, you make a lot of mistakes and assumptions.

Please don't get mad at me and fake my death too.

Just to add to what L-Pink has already stated, there was a 10 person SWAT team hunting in the woods for this guy (the same woods where he had already "executed" another cop. I emphasize "executed" because after shooting and immobilizing the cop, he stood over him and put two more bullets into his head...)

Anyway, so you have a 10 person SWAT team, going through the woods, hunting this guy - and he comes up from under a fallen oak tree and some brush with a gun in his hand - nine of the SWAT members spot him and the a gun and they open fire on him.

Polk County SWAT members carry MP5s. From what I've read in this thread, you yourself apparently are a gun owner and versed in guns, so I'm assuming you are already familiar w/ an MP5 and it's rate of fire. But, for the sake of those reading that are not, it's 800 rounds per minute.

So simple math: 68 rounds hit this guy. 9 SWAT members fired - that's roughly 8 hits per SWAT member (not realistic that you could avg hits out like that - and that each would hit 8 times, but just for math's sake). They're firing a weapon that shoots 800 rounds / minute - that's 13 bullets a SECOND - basically a quick pull of the trigger.

That would mean that each SWAT member pulled the trigger for LESS THAN HALF A SECOND - when they saw this guy coming up from the brush with a gun in his hand.

HOPEFULLY now knowing that they were carrying MP5s you can get a better idea of what what was going on and agree that "68 shots" from 9 SWAT members does not indicate a loss of control in any manner.

:thumbsup

110 shots fired with 68 hits = 38% missed shots.

That being said....I've been around a number of tactical teams and competition shoots and missing your target 38% of the time will earn you a casket or last place. These people train for these kind of stressful situations.

I don't care if they were carrying mini-guns, 68 rounds is excessive ESPECIALLY for those with tactical training.

Was my mistake that indeed you have been trained at a police academy...or was my mistake that you have in fact served in the military...or was it that you have shot at a human target. Feel free to correct my mistake/assumptions.

But, you did read the part that this was in a dense, wooded area - and the guy was hiding UNDER a fallen tree - covered in brush... right? He stuck his hand and gun out from the brush. So you have a 6" (or let's be generous) - 12" target of a hand/gun coming out of some brush - and a 1 second pull (again being generous) of an automatic weapon - and you feel that a 42% hit rate - in this scenario - is bad??

These guys weren't out on a range for target practice.

I don't see a 1 second pull (hell even 2 second) as excessive. It was not ONE guy firing 110 rounds. It was nine SWAT members popping the trigger of an MP5 for a 1 second burst (or less).

I guess it's an agree to disagree situation...

You first mistake was faking your own death then sticking around here for years to follow. Beyond that, the rest of "my" experiences are none of your concern.

I am not concerned about your "experiences" fat boy...and BTW you are ignorant of facts. You are now dismissed.

So...In this "dense wooded area"....The visibility must have been poor. No? Yet 9 different people were able to see a target the size of a hand? And you think that this 6-12" area is what they were aiming for? Then why is he dead? A "dense wooded area" puts them very close to the target yet they still missed 38%.

All that aside I'm going to go out on a limb and make an assumption here....

Since I am familiar with the MP5 and their variations as well as tac teams....I'd suggest that MOST tac teams use a variant with a fire control group that includes a 2 or 3 round burst. In a "dense wooded area", and considering officer safety, full auto would not necessarily be the way to go....Unless you were exercising poor judgment and lack of control.

I've hunted in "dense wooded areas" and never wished I had anything more than a semi-auto and I hunt things that can hide better and run faster than humans.

Ignorant of facts huh?

Here's a fact:

YOU ARE A FRAUD.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it you faggot ass punk. :321GFY

Dismissed you say. LOL says I. :1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

No - that's my point. I would think that when they saw the hand they would try to aim for body mass - based on the hand they were seeing. The guy being on his side, flat - which way he was laying (head/toe) would all come in to play and explain the misses. I'm sure some folks where shooting what what they thought was center mass, but hitting toes - or head - or nothing - because all they saw was a hand poke up through the scrub.


That's a fair assumption, but I can tell you that Pinellas County SWAT (2 counties west) runs their MP5s full auto - and - they said that Polk County SWAT does as well. This was straight from talking with PCSO SWAT team members discussing this very case roughly 8 months ago. (Followed by a quick demo of their MP5 at the PCSO range [not me shooting unfortunately - them lol]).

Basically, it's one of those cases that they're asked about all the time.


But come on, if it was a human - waiting to ambush you (and had just assaulted your family), you wouldn't go full auto?? :)

I just go back to the math - a quick pop of the trigger spits out 8 - 10 rounds * 9 shooters. It SOUNDS excessive to say a man was shot 68 times, but it is really only a 1 - 2 second pull of the trigger. The entire incident probably lasted 5 - 10 seconds or less.

As a point of interest, here's the scrub where they were searching for him. :)

Good thing it wasn't a random homeless person.



I'll give you most of that.

However...Since you are going back to the math, I might as well go back to the Sheriff and this quote: "That's all the bullets we had."

Are those the words that a responsible publicly elected official would use when responding to such a situation? Obviously he was being a smart ass which again shows that the Polk County Sheriffs Department exercises poor judgment and lack of control. It starts with the Sheriff himself and goes to his officers from there.

Just to be clear...

I know a lot of people who use the word "hate" when describing how they feel about Police. Personally, I have no beef with most of them and I associate with officers on a fairly regular basis. In fact, about three weeks ago I had a nice face to face discussion on current gun laws with a man who is running for Sheriff.

That being said...If they were perfect then there would never be a need for I.A.D.

And ran out of bullets? Hm.. doesn't sound right.

That avatar of yours makes me want to fucking puke :throwup:throwup

FL LE are limited to 3 round mags. :winkwink:

I fucked Judd's wife and now he's being a total asshole.

Sorry, guys!

You are really quite emotional...now aren't you...fat boy? The question is rhetorical as it is obvious that you are quite emotional. Dismissed.

Emotional? No, not really. Just telling it like it is...and it's obvious that you are a fraud.

I thought you already dismissed me?

Perhaps you forgot in your old age. :1orglaugh