yeah, i hear ya. i geared up before, but will stop all sups in about 6 days, after my current batch is up. other than protein powder, i am going to go more natural, i realize all these years i've been putting too much emphasis on supplementation and not enough on smart exercise & nutrition, especially the nutrition part. in fact, i've put together a meal replacement cereal which has a perfect nutrient profile, made with uncooked grains, seeds, fruits and berries. i want to see how my exercise goes and my body responds to it without supplementation, so.........

A lot of that depends on your age and physiology.
If you're a young guy for instance...you are running around with your body FULL of testosterone. So you don't really need any supplements or gear.

But if you are in your mid to late 30's and up...then you are going to have to have HRT (test) if you want to continue to have the ability to build muscle.

Without that one hormone you won't be able to achieve much no matter what you do.

It's kinda fucked up that a young man is walking around producing testosterone naturally in abundance. And if I had the same amount in a bottle in my pocket as that young man has flowing in his veins...I'm off to prison! :(

Fucking police state. Or should I say fucking money grubbing medical industry and politicians.

it's weird because i've read and thought the same until recently. i'm 45 years old and i've gained 15 pounds of lean body mass and lost a couple pounds fat in the last ~70 days, no gear.

Everybody is different in physiology. Just like some guys go bald at 18 and others have a head full of hair at 90.

Your body may have lost testosterone production at a slower rate than the average male. Saves you some money at the moment for sure. :)

But that shit could turn off like a light switch at anytime. So if you begin to notice things slipping a bit, I'd go to a doctor and have them measure test levels. Of course they always want to tell you that your level is "within the boundaries" So you could have the lowest "acceptable" level and still feel like shit.

Anyway, just keep an eye on it and keep on going without it as long as you can. :)

that's a good idea eh, is that a blood test? i am getting my vitamin panel done in a week or so, i can get them to add a test test.

Yes it's a blood test for T levels. I forget now, but I think the ones you're interested in are the "free" ones in your system. Google that up and you'll get some ideas on what the optimal levels for kicking ass are. You get it up there just right and you'll feel like a million bucks. Energy levels, mental concentration, and of course your dick will be at full attention like when you were 18.

got it.
i wouldn't have an issue firing test at some point in the future but if i am cranking out any natural test i might as well run with it. from what i understand, dosing test causes whatever natural production you have to cease eh, no matter how small the amount.

Exactly. Once you start supplementing with it your body naturally sees you have enough and stops making it's own. Of course if you are like most men your age (and you aren't yet), your body is already barely making any.

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This is me too - I really like NOSHOTGUN - ...if you're pushing more weight, you're getting stronger...

had to re-read all this... been doin the Force Factor NO pills (pre-workout 3 pills) and the GNC Amplified Wheybolic Extreme 60 protein drink after.. and sometimes during the day whenever.. and man I think the shit is workin bcuz I'm not as gut fat as I was a month ago and I'm definitely gaining muscle... helps to be eating better too.. but I cheat here and there..

I think I'm gonna get the SuperPump 250 for pre just for the hell of it.. sounds pretty decent.. diggin the gnc protein chocolate.. actually tastes just like those hot choc milk packets I used to drink as a kid..

How did those work for you sire?

the n0xplode worked but was super hard to choke down, it got to the point where i couldn't drink it anymore without upchucking to some degree. it also tasted more sugary than the others.

superpump250 kicks ass but.. it gave me the shits the 1st week, then settled down. easy to drink, noticeable impact.

jack3d- worked at 1st but then i felt the impact tapered off. it does seem to work better for me when i cycle it with the superpump 250.

all that being said, i've been off the pre-wo drinks for a month now, and my lifts have not gone down poundage-wise. i have lost some size though, my upper arm measurement went down from 14.5" to 14" due to water loss though.

but the more i workout the more i realize it boils down to really really really hard work. supplements, other than protein, don't really seem to make a dramatic a difference as really pushing hard in my workouts and maintaining a very clean diet.

Don't waste your money on nitric oxide supplements. Like 95% of all supplements, it's got no science behind it, just mass quantity of "scientific results" advertising. If you want the same effect, take a caffeine pill before a workout. Since most NO supplements just pump you full of caffeine (basically their main ingredient).

Honestly, these things haven't gone through any sort of medical review process or anything. Do yo want to trust a company like muscle-tech or BSN? Who are they? Who comes up with these supplements? Who decides that all these random synthetic ingredients are what your body needs? How do you know they won't fuck with some aspect if your body in the future? Remember hydoxycut hardcore? It killed a few people who had pre-existing conditions that they didn't know about.

Quit trying to speed up results with supplements, they aren't doing anything :) The most I recommend as someonw ho's worked out for years with good success is protein powder. Nothing else does anything. Pre-workout supp's use caffeine as their man ingredient, so just buy some caffeine pills. They are really cheap.

I never tried it. Good luck, Adam X.