Wrong....
but like I've said before we have tried it all nothing new here.

if we were doing 10 sales a day my average might be 4-6 months

we have a site that has more content then most and its only $6.95 a month every month. megaporn.com is that deal not good enough

Unfortunately the overall numbers do not support your claims. Average retention from trial to full might be 35% on the whole, and that's a might that decreases every day.

Surfers get smarter, they realize they don't have to pay a monthly charge to see what they want.

They more than understand the trial join. And they use it to their advantage.

For every member that stays more than two months there are at least 8 that dont make it past the trial, and that's a conservative estimate.

Talk to anyone doing triple or quadruple digit joins a day, they can corroborate.

The guy doing 15-20 sales a day on one site has a totally different revenue model than a guy doing 1500-2000 joins a day. Volume makes up for lots of things, including poor retention.

Then that seems to work well for you, exclusive content is king and that is proven. Thats the exception.


I ran 30 plus sites all hardcore niche, cookie cutter sites, our members area was a mega site, that being said our members rebilled 3-4 months, average, this is a few years back nowadays mega sites like rogers , ars etc members stay for no more then 2 months.

Im talking about mega sites, its no secret exclusive content/amateur sites members rebill for many months.

go sign up to adult bouncer.

and why is fletch on my ignore list

what the fuck

If I were to join any site and found that it had the same content as 90% of the other sites out there, I would cancel. Do you have anything exclusive?? if so, what is it?? Im sick of the standard cookie cutter, plugin infested template sites out there.

Did you read this?
http://gofuckyourself.com/showthread...threadid=96539

whatever I was one of the first to have an exclusive site called therealworld.com a ton of hot chicks in a mansion one of the first vouyer houses

the price was $19.95 and they still canceled
It was even on the news on many channels

surfers have no idea if your content is exclusive I can say all my content is exclusive they would never know or care.

also about the sales that go thru on a rev share model are far more less then our sites so you make more up front and on the bottom line then a few sales that stick for 4 months

please educate them great post:thumbsup

Earlier you said surfers are not loyal, now you claim 45% retain?

Thats a pretty good number considering what others do. So you saying almost 50% of the dollar sign ups turn to full? hmmmm...

Of course you make thousands of sales a day. How many dollar sign ups you processing?

Id rather have them recurring at 20 bucks a month instead, dont knock my opinion. Its not easy to figure out 1000 X 1$ and 1000 x 20$.

As you say you have 'tried it all' so have i.

I make more with recurring.

bottom line.

This argument carries over into the one by jennycards, but I'll say this:

There's a reason NastyDollars/OxCash do so well. There's a reason a lot of people use Lightspeed's revshare. There's a reason people come to GFY to piss about a certain sponsor's members areas.

People are sick of the BS and outlandish claims by PPS sponsors. If I had a dime for every 'I was one of the first's and 'show me's in this thread I'd have enough capital to start my own PPS.

At the end of the day people will use who they want. PPS sites with GOOD members areas or long successful histories will last, and small new upstart PPS programs will fall to VISA or other problems if they continue in the cookie-cutter tradition of their brethren.

I personally will enjoy watching the rats flee the sinking ship.

:thumbsup

good thread. the only people who know the truth about this are the people who own the paysites and the cc processors. The rest of it is all 'broken telephone' gossip about retention rates, membership counts.

An no Roger, all the big programs have not tried everything. You couldn't run a site like Amateur Teen Kingdom in your program, i'm assuming with your business model once webmaster affiliate payouts are done, overhead of running your business etc that it's not a big margin you're working on. Sites like ATK spend a FORTUNE on content every month, as do the new reality porn sites. Sites like Hustler can do it paying out 30 bucks per signup because they are in the content business.

you can also fall flat on your face, have shitty retention rates, even with spending a fortune on exclusive content. I've heard from people i trust who do shoot exclusive content that their retention rates aren't much better than what everybody here is talking about. So i don't discount the school of thought that retention rates suck and are about the same whether you've got a Mercedes Benz of a members area or a piece of shit members area.

and for you guys who think all the big boy programs have shitty
members areas - you're wrong. Do they have exclusive content, most don't have much if any but the MaxCash and Cybererotica members areas are BIG - surfers aren't getting ripped in those programs - both those companies buy practically everything available to be licensed. So surfers get a ton of stuff to choose from. I do think the surfers are getting more and more finicky, they want what they want - whatever the niche. They are in control now, they were so totally fucked over as hundreds of million were made it's almost like every time a surfer cancels on a trial he's laughing at the whole adult biz ''Nyah nyah na na na........YOUR CREDIT CARD WILL NEVER BE BILLED THIS IS ONLY FOR AGE VERFICATION PURPOSES........ahahahahhahah............guess what fucker? i just downloaded your whole fucking site for 1.99! Payback's a bitch ain't it!"

I think you will see the big programs going more and more to exclusive content, if a member's area for a big company like CE
is costing them 50,000 a month, they might find that spending that 50,000 on exclusive might be better in the end and getting rid of most of the plugin and filler content.

There is always going to be a scorched earth way of thinking with this business, nobody cares about how anything done today affects the future. Nothing anybody can do to change that.

They been fleeing! were you been?

This is one thing I'll admit I was dead wrong about, sometime in I think '98 I predicted the PPS model would be VERY short lived, in fact I lost 1k betting they would be all but over with before the year 2000. I was wrong about the timeline, but I'm still confident that they will disapear within a couple years. It's up to the webmasters to smarten up. Guys who just want to make some quick cash and get out should use PPS, anyone in this to make a living should be smart enough to go with recurring.

just because you can't do it doesn't mean others can't

decent retention from trial is 50%. average doesn't mean much because most sites suck shit, simple as that.

Wow Leader-anon, I find it amazing that you put your faith in the ability of others in this business to pay your bills.

Unless you personally administer the site, you have no control over what goes in the members area, what the members area evolves into, or even if the owners will stay in business... while I always like Jeff and Gav, let me remind you all of Busty Amateurs... or have you all forgotten how you bitched to high heaven and claimed they stole from you when in reality they didn't collect another dime off their members when it was over either?

Revshare type programs were designed by credit card processors to lower the bar to entry for the common affiliate who wanted to start a paysite and have a reseller program but did not have the cash to do it.

Don't confuse the processors rightful desire to increase their business with some overly solicitious feelings that revshare owners have for their affiliates.

And you are quoting this figure from where? Which processor? Because that's the ONLY place you get a decent view of the overall picture.

from a processor? again you're looking at the average. the average site blows. of course the numbers will be lower if the site sucks.

thats pretty much common sense.

i'm basing this on 4 years of looking at members area's and the ones that i thought kicked ass retained real well. and i've yet to see a members area that i was truly impressed with.

I see. Then let's take a look at the Bell Curve. If it weren't for the average, there would be no top or bottom.

I am simply playing devil's advocate, ok perhaps the devil herself, in this discussion.

So my next question iguana, what paysite do you run that has these incredible numbers you refer to? Obviously you've a ton of experience running paysites in order to know what works and what doesn't for retention, right?

Good Post Mutt :thumbsup

i promote sites. i see retention with my own eyes. i will look at the members area before i promote a site for % programs. i've seen what big cookie cutter sites retention is, wasn't impressed at all with the crap retention. i've seen other sites with exclusive content retain very well. sites that aren't the same blah blah plug in content site typically do better, and if done right will retain at very high levels.

if i actually ran paysites retention would be excellent. but i started in this business part time, and i'm still pretty much part time until i go where i want to go with my life. starting a paysite wasn't really on the agenda.

the local phone company here has a neat trick....

they implement it in two places..

if a phone number you ring is busy, a message comes up that says "We will continue to dial this number for you, so that if it becomes available in the next 30 minutes, you will be notified. You can do this by pressing 1... pause... for a charge of 90 cents"

Then, when you call information, it does the same thing...

"The number is 555-6785.. you can be connected automatically by pressing 1.. pause.. for a charge of 90 cents"

I bet they really thought about what they were doing when they decided they wouldn't tell you how much it cost until after they tell you you can conveniently be connected by pressing one.. I bet they'd lose half the suckers who do that if they said "For a charge of 90 cents, we can automatically connect you..."

It's no different in this biz.. I hate to be overly pragmatic and burst the bubbles of everyone who holds onto moral virtues and idealism, but the point is to make them forget... to cancel that is.

why do you think sponsors do tricky stuff on their cross sales.. they will offer three sites.. an initial site, and two cross sales. The initial site will be a 5 day trial, cross sale one will be a 2 day trial, and cross sale 2 will be a 3 day trial.. they do it to confuse them and get more $

Cuz the truth is surfers dont care and this whole industry is based on them forgetting to cancel.... I joined a site the other day to see members' area and forgot to cancel :) It's really easy and thats how we make money.. Btw, another good suggestion to keep your members is to make the prices for recurring really weird, so they won't notice it on their credit card bill.. like 39.82 instead of 39.99 .. Then they will think its just some charge.. etc.. billing companies will recommend you do this too :) It really helps.

Every industry does it... Those prepaid calling cards you buy.. you have to use all the minutes before a specific date, or you lose the remaining minutes. It's the same with anything else..

Caesar's Palace doesn't have $1 chips.. instead, they pay you with $1 slot machine coins... Why? So instead of cashing in your dollar chips, as you're walking to the cashier, you'll see the $1 slot machines and figure what the hell, and blow the $1's.. that shit adds up..

It's the same in this business.. :) You guys need to get your head out of the clouds... the surfer doesn't care about you.. fuck them.. it's just $40... and for the people who say that this industry is bad because people think that way "Fuck the customer".. I say that I'd rather be around people who don't hide behind a veil of hypocracy, convincing themselves that they're moral, when in reality they're just fake, and their whole lives are a lie... Let's just be real. A market economy works by selling something for a profit.. so the consumer always gets fucked.. I'd rather get $40 from some perv jacking off to porn than sell him a piece of shit car for $30,000 that will be worth half that in 1.5 years .. now go figure -- which business is more corrupt?


Anyway.. just my :2 cents:

ah yes, and if a frog had wings...

i'm sure your paysites are soooo successful

Busty Amateurs :(

For the most part the ones I have been associated with definitely were.

Persignup programs arent going nowhere. You can graph and chart average retention, trials to memberships, etc. But that means very little when you control the payout. How can you make a bad investment when you just payout what you want?:glugglug

exactly

just because i don't run paysites myself, i do know what sells and retains and what doesn't because i've been pushing this shit for years.

Leader-anon? :1orglaugh

I don't understand how I'm more anon than anyone else here. You want to contact me? My name, e-mail, and icq have been posted on this board a couple times. What, do I have to post my home address to not be anonymous here?

Richard Helman
richard AT bigleaguebetting.com
icq: 177240182

Oh I see, you want 12clicks to be the next guy you fuck for a job, so you're kissing his ass. I see now, sorry, at first I didn't understand. Blow away ugly.


I find it amazing you'd rather trust some cokehead PPS owner to credit you all your signups through his software than run your own paysite. Or at least take the time to find a good, honest reccuring program that updates often and cares about its members.

Yep, http://www.bustyamateurs.com/

Let me know if you want to promote it.

ICQ: 44957551

I think you'll be satisfied with the conversions.... we are.

Note: we are/were not affiliated with Jeff.

Struck a nerve I see... rofl.

I love reading about these whiners.. "If a program did this.. and a program did that"

You know.. Let see you spend at lease 15k to even start a program, to pay programmers, designers and others, and then use the rest of the money to market that program.

So when you finally have a webmaster base in your program that cost you an arm and a leg for, try to manage them, watch for the cheaters, and keep the good ones happy in a non stop 24/7 business..


Point here..

Stop fucking complaining.. Send the traffic.. Get paid.. You want recurring money.. then find a exclusive content program. You want to convert great and get paid.. Go with PPS

agreed:thumbsup

if i was to start one i would need in the 50-75k range to start up. 15k isn't gonna get you a whole lot, would be a bit thin on content.

My point exactly..

Word... well said.

escort biz how is your escort site doing since its a niche we don't have maybe a revshare works well for it.
we should talk at the show
we have this free escort site maybe we can work something out
http://www.worldsexguide.org/WSGMainPage.html

pps is not going anywhere... as long as the webmasters want it, there will be a sponser that has it. even if sponsers decide to shut it down, there will always be another sponser to buck the trend. if you're smart you'll use both and see what works best for you.

I couldn't agree more.

Try out a few sponsors and see who makes you the most.

I have at least 20 sponsors on my exits and I get a daily report on who's doing well and we bump them up acordingly. its an ongoing process that never ends.

If you can't convert a one month $1 trial membership you've got problems.
we made it simple for you Porn4aBuck

There's only one site out there I would join today.
It isn't any of the big mega-sites... you kidding me? They've all got the same girls on the tours, which says "we've all got the same stuff inside". How many ways can you take that Matrix set of Skye in the blue outfit or Aria in the red patent leather and make a tour out of them? Surf around, you'll find out.

Trial? Don't make me laugh. I don't trust it - and that was BEFORE I became an adult webmaster. Tell me I'll pay $X for a yearly subscription or even a 6 month subscription, then you've got my attention. That tells me a few things:
1. The site plans to be around for a while
2. I'm getting some value for my money
Besides, from a webmaster's point of view - surfers are far more likely to forget about a bill that recurs in 6 months or 12 months than one that pops up on their statement every month.

Monthly fee? Hell no... I've got enough monthly bills. The minute you tell me it's $X per MONTH you've changed my line of thought from "damn I'm horny" to "oh shit, what bills do I have left this month? I'd better check the online bank statement..." and I'm gone.

Offer surfers a 3/6/12 month membership and you'll see wallets getting pulled out. It's what the customer *perceives*, not necessarily what you tell him or show him. Make him think he's getting a real deal and he'll hop on it. A trial membership or $1 membership doesn't say "deal", it says "you're gonna get burned on this, don't trust it".

Then again, I'm a spendthrift who gets horny, rather than a guy who's always horny and thinks with his little head before his big head.

Oh yeah, the only site I'd join? Nina's. Because it's so damn different and it SCREAMS personal attention and interaction. This isn't just some site where you can jerk off to the girl, this is a site where you can get to KNOW her by interacting with her on a regular basis. A lot of amateur sites have this angle, but they don't push it; instead they try to push themselves off as "just like the megasites but with a personal touch".

Just my :2 cents: ...I've not been in this so long that I can't see things from the surfer's point of view.

All of you guys arguing... it's a moot point. Different traffic converts and retains differently. People in different niches convert and retain differently. You can make a generalization about retention rates etc. but arguing over it is pointless unless you can take over your arguing opponent's sites and traffic and see things/change things for yourself.