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-   -   A Major Reason Our Industry is Suffering (https://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=968087)

ASW 05-12-2010 12:38 PM

how is everbody doing today i hope all is well

Amputate Your Head 05-12-2010 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ASW (Post 17132539)
how is everbody doing today i hope all is well

Congrats on your first post.

Roald 05-12-2010 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BFT3K (Post 17132525)
What does that even mean? If I ran a site that sells widgets, I can easily say that most of my customers use Twitter and Facebook too. That doesn't mean they used Twitter and FB to find my widgets, nor does it mean there is any correlation whatsoever.

Tons of people online are now using Twitter and FB in some way. Tying that in to people looking for porn is just a blanket statement.

If I am looking for a new camera I do not search Twitter or FB.

It's like saying "I sell electric chicken heads, and after polling my customers I noticed most of them are using Twitter and/or FB." So, what does that prove?

I've noticed nearly 99% of MY customers are using a video monitor of some sort to view my content.

Bingo! Go after the people who use video monitors of some sort!

I think you are too much talking about fb and Twitter, point is there is sooooo much to do on the Internet right now besides porn. So not only social networking.

Shap 05-12-2010 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BFT3K (Post 17132525)
What does that even mean? If I ran a site that sells widgets, I can easily say that most of my customers use Twitter and Facebook too. That doesn't mean they used Twitter and FB to find my widgets, nor does it mean there is any correlation whatsoever.

Tons of people online are now using Twitter and FB in some way. Tying that in to people looking for porn is just a blanket statement.

If I am looking for a new camera I do not search Twitter or FB.

It's like saying "I sell electric chicken heads, and after polling my customers I noticed most of them are using Twitter and/or FB." So, what does that prove?

I've noticed nearly 99% of MY customers are using a video monitor of some sort to view my content.

Bingo! Go after the people who use video monitors of some sort!

Wow Seriously? Here are two examples.

#1 I can name 100 pornstars I can talk to right now on Twitter. I can't even do that on Twistys. That is direct competition. Someone who loves Bree Olson may get more from interacting on Twitter than watching her on Twistys.

#2 7 years ago there wasn't as much to do online. Now there are numerous ways people spend their time online. If we are one form of online entertainment we are competing with other forms of online entertainment and with so many of them exploding and reaching new levels of traffic and adaptation that has to mean somewhere we are losing out to them.

Shap 05-12-2010 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by will76 (Post 17132453)
I think that was true, or more of the case 5+ years ago. The gravy train years were really the 90's from what I hear. I didn't start to 99, but I hear people all the time that say back in 96' 97' 98' etc if you throw out a couple pages in the SE you would get tons of sales. There was also less competition. The competition increased a lot in 99/00/01 etc. People had to start "working" to make money.

A lot of the dumb money people crashed in burned by the early 2000's. Everyone else who was left had to work harder and smarter to continue to make good money and stay ahead of their competition. Some people who had made dumb money early and couldn't cut the hard work resorted to shady shit like spyware, stealing content, and banging cards. Other people got on the cross sale craze to help try to make them more money. This all happened around the 2003 - 2008 time frame.


In the last couple years to current, what has really kicked everyone in the ass is the economy, but more so the credit crunch. I don't care what you sell if it takes visa there is a LOT less potential customers today then there was 2+ years ago. When the credit card companies started taking everyone's available balances away, and more and more people were losing their jobs and living on (and maxing out) their credit cards, we lost tons of potential customers.

Throw on top of that how tube sites / stolen content have hurt picture and video membership sites you can see the challenges today are a lot harder then even 2 -3 years ago.

There is still money to be made, it's just gets harder and harder to do it everyday. The people who made easy money way back, that then turned to shady stuff, banging cards, or living off of cross sales, their days are numbered unless they come up with another way to ride the wave a little longer.

So to reply to your post, the "dumb money" people have long been gone. What we are getting rid of now is the shady people, and everyone else who failed to work EVEN harder to keep it going / innovated to stay ahead of the competition.

Good post I agree with almost all of it. The one thing I disagree with is I don't feel we ever had a shake down. I think the guys who made big money early left. They didn't get shook down in most cases they hit a level of $$$ they were happy with left and moved on to bigger things. A lot of those guys were REALLY smart and it's a shame they aren't around today. The guys who came in after them have been able to survive until the last 18 months. Now the shakedown is going to start happening and happening more than ever. In a year from now I think the list of WHERE ARE THEY NOW programs/sites/webmasters will be much bigger than it is today. Probably double.

Shap 05-12-2010 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AcidMax (Post 17132478)
It just means you need to figure out a way to get those 20-25 year old's into your site. Long gone are the days of the simple tours, 3 pages, and a join page. Does that mean you need a tube site? Nope. Means you need to do something to make your site more "sticky", something for them to come back to other than another blonde babe etc. No reason there can't be porn 2.0, just like there is web 2.0 like facebook, twitter etc. More people just need to be creative and think of the ideas. That solely is the reason people do not make money in this business, or why their business is suffering now, lack of creativity and changing with the times (and I don't mean the tube bandwagon). A name brand like a Twisty's just needs to be expanded on imho. Those people that open 100 different paysites in hopes each will make a signup, those are the ones that fail. Work on a brand and expand on it.

ABSOLUTELY 10000%. I agree.

BFT3K 05-12-2010 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shap (Post 17132551)
Wow Seriously? Here are two examples.

#1 I can name 100 pornstars I can talk to right now on Twitter. I can't even do that on Twistys. That is direct competition. Someone who loves Bree Olson may get more from interacting on Twitter than watching her on Twistys.

#2 7 years ago there wasn't as much to do online. Now there are numerous ways people spend their time online. If we are one form of online entertainment we are competing with other forms of online entertainment and with so many of them exploding and reaching new levels of traffic and adaptation that has to mean somewhere we are losing out to them.

I agree with you on the level that individual porn models have a fan base, and if they have a brain in their head, and at least SOME ambition, they can use social networks to promote their own sites, and even more lucrative these days - their own webcam-related enterprises.

It is not nearly that easy to get popular porn girls to bend over backwards to promote your site however, simply because they are one of the models. What's in it for them?

I've worked with hundreds of porn girls, as I know you have as well. No offense, but the bulk of them are NOT ambitious, and are NOT reliable AT ALL! The ones who are, are the ones who WILL promote THEMSELVES, for their own financial gain.

Still doesn't help a male owner of a site network too much, unless you are running their solo site, and/or webcam enterprise.

Shap 05-12-2010 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kristin (Post 17132485)
I will always say the major reason the industry is suffering is because companies refuse to innovate.

People got too complacent when it was easy, then when more competitors came in, those lucky early bird money makers in porn had no clue what to do next.

There is a reason programs like Program3 rock -- innovative content, nice sites, simple affiliate program backend, etc.

How do you innovate if you copied your way to success? That's kinda my point. There is x% that can't innovate because they have no clue. Then we have x% who don't innovate because they are fat (money wise) and lazy without a reason to do so. That covers almost all of us myself included.

Shap 05-12-2010 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kristin (Post 17132485)
I will always say the major reason the industry is suffering is because companies refuse to innovate.

People got too complacent when it was easy, then when more competitors came in, those lucky early bird money makers in porn had no clue what to do next.

There is a reason programs like Program3 rock -- innovative content, nice sites, simple affiliate program backend, etc.

Btw Program3 also happens to be the company that really took paysites to a whole new level many many years ago.

Roald 05-12-2010 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dyna mo (Post 17132537)
:1orglaugh:1orglaugh too funny.

Check the comments here, that's him right:
http://www.lukeisback.com/?p=10196

BFT3K 05-12-2010 12:55 PM

This is a brilliant site. It is to webcam sites what tubes are to porn sites.

http://www.myfreecams.com/

I have no affiliation, and the reason I am aware of it is because the URL was posted here on GFY a number of times now.

You can communicate directly with the models, and ask them to do whatever you want, in real time.

It is not FB, but I suppose it is a social network of some sort.

A genius business model, and no affiliate program at all.

Addictive, dirty, and fun.

Will likely serve as the new webcam business model for the next generation of webcam sites. Not sure how it helps me in any way, but certainly interesting on many levels.

Easy, innovative, assorted models, direct communication, live sex... brilliant!

Rico 05-12-2010 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shap (Post 17131891)
Yeah I know. That's soooooooooo Hard. I'm guilty of it as well. It's so easy to chase after the next hot project.

LOL...

Tell me about it!

:thumbsup

Relentless 05-12-2010 12:57 PM

Ask yourself WHY people pay for porn even though porn is available for free.

I have actually asked 1000s of surfers that question and I know TheBestPorn asked it as well of their users. The results come back in four very simple statements, three about equally often and one that comes back more often than all of the others combined:

1) If I don't buy porn, people will stop making quality porn and Ill be stuck watching old dvd crap with nothing new to enjoy.

2) I don't feel right stealing... and pirating videos is stealing.

3) If I become a member of a good porn site they listen to my feedback and I have some say in what kind of porn gets made. I love being able to suggest a specific model or a story for them to create etc...

and #4 which gets said more than the other three replies combined....

4) I don't TRUST tube sites and torrents. I don't want to get my PC infected by a virus or have a free site abuse my credit card or get spam mail and other annoying crap from free sites so id rather just pay my 30 bucks and enjoy some quality porn without all the headaches.


Free porn does not kill the porn industry. Scam sites and aggressive billing does not kill the porn industry. The COMBINATION of aggressive billing by paysites and free porn being available is what is killing the industry. When a customer is just as likely to get card banged, spam emailed, virus or malware infected etc from a site he paid 30 to join as one that posts content for free... he becomes a permanent free site user instead.

Give customers a quality user experience and an ethical sales pitch without scamming them... It really is that simple. :2 cents:

Due 05-12-2010 12:57 PM

I think the industry took a bad turn when the industry stopped evolving.

I haven't seen any fresh a cool ideas in porn for years. The adult business used to lead the way, now it copies the mainstream.

People will pay for an experience, the market of paying 39.95 / month for access to 2500 videos getting 3 updates / day is dying, that's why cross sales became so popular.

The Porn Nerd 05-12-2010 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 17132089)
I think we all have individual "leaders" in our own ways.

What I mean is this...For me, I was Ampland up until Nov. of 2006. I had a LOT of traffic, and made a LOT of money. So other people would come to my sites and look at what I was promoting because they knew the quality of traffic I had and knew that if I gave up a valuable piece of real estate on the main page...it would be because it sold well. And they would emulate that. Many times we'd find the entire category pages full of galleries ripped by other sites with the affiliate codes changed. They would basically just piggyback of my learning curve.

So tgp guys had their set of "leaders".

And then paysites and programs would (and still do) talk and set up deals to make money together. (remember when ARS and MaxCash were basically just a giant circle jerk of pop up traffic on their banners back in the 1990's?) So when somebody would come up with a way to make a lot of money...everybody else wants in too. So they copy it and implement it in their biz.

So cash programs/paysites have their set of "leaders"

Same can be said for every facet....from designers to tube owners and everything in between.

Not really "leaders" but sort of "the guy who figures out a new way to make more money first"

Irregardless, they can't really do anything of course. But they can "lead" the way and the smart ones will follow and begin to tweak whatever the "leader" did to make it even better.

Interesting thread. As someone who literally - literally now - started with ZERO I am one of "those" who got into this business for that very reason: I had zero and there are very few opportunities out there to be successful starting with zero money yet limitless 'sweat equity'.

So I believe in hard work, new guys getting into the business, not having limitations, being a success when almost everyone else is hurting or leaving or predicting doom. Perhaps it's my personality, or the fact that I've been a success - MY definition of success, mind you (the only def that counts, to me) - in every single thing I've ever done, ever. Of course, the "success" of which I gloat only came after years of struggle, disappointment, failure and learning. :)

So I knew this wouldn't be an 'easy' gig but could, potentially, pay off big time (I want to post silly GFY threads from my hot tub, too, like Mr. Frisky did earlier today). Do I lament not getting into porn back in '01, '02, '03? You betcha - but I simply cannot get my damn time machine to work properly so fuck it. LOL

The reason I quoted Robbie here - instead of the other 1/2 dozen or so excellent points made by others - is that what he wrote is, in my opinion, a major reason I "made it" (so far): modeling. I didn't try to re-invent the wheel, so to speak. (Well okay, when I knew nada back in '07 I did, but everyone does that at first.) Six months in I knew I'd better start 'copying', as Robbie puts it, others' success, and start doing what THEY were doing. I also looked at sites that were NOT successful so I could NOT do what they were doing. LOL

But then I found what I think is CRUCIAL to anyone's success, especially these days: a twist. Something just a wee differant than all the other stuff people see when they surf porn. Maybe it's a "so crappy it stands out" tour design, or maybe a funny/sexy video where you laugh first then get turned on. Maybe it's a little pervert in a green trenchcoat someone can instantly recognize as a 'brand'. Who knows? Keep trying til something clicks.

So what I'm saying here is this: follow the leaders...up to a point. Then, when you've learned just enough to be dangerous, try throwing in a little 'twist', something unique to YOU/your sites that will make you stand out a little. It will go a long way. be your own Leader, for your own World. :)

Roald 05-12-2010 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BFT3K (Post 17132617)
This is a brilliant site. It is to webcam sites what tubes are to porn sites.

http://www.myfreecams.com/

I have no affiliation, and the reason I am aware of it is because the URL was posted here on GFY a number of times now.

You can communicate directly with the models, and ask them to do whatever you want, in real time.

It is not FB, but I suppose it is a social network of some sort.

A genius business model, and no affiliate program at all.

Addictive, dirty, and fun.

Will likely serve as the new webcam business model for the next generation of webcam sites. Not sure how it helps me in any way, but certainly interesting on many levels.

Easy, innovative, assorted models, direct communication, live sex... brilliant!

Actually Leo does have some affiliates ;)))

dyna mo 05-12-2010 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roald (Post 17132613)
Check the comments here, that's him right:
http://www.lukeisback.com/?p=10196

yup. lolz, he's a good guy from what i gathered that night but he's made y'all the poster boy in his mind for what's wrong in the biz today.

Shap 05-12-2010 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BFT3K (Post 17132617)
This is a brilliant site. It is to webcam sites what tubes are to porn sites.

http://www.myfreecams.com/

I have no affiliation, and the reason I am aware of it is because the URL was posted here on GFY a number of times now.

You can communicate directly with the models, and ask them to do whatever you want, in real time.

It is not FB, but I suppose it is a social network of some sort.

A genius business model, and no affiliate program at all.

Addictive, dirty, and fun.

Will likely serve as the new webcam business model for the next generation of webcam sites. Not sure how it helps me in any way, but certainly interesting on many levels.

Easy, innovative, assorted models, direct communication, live sex... brilliant!

Absolutely. The owner of that site is really smart. He's been successful for many years and continues to operate quietly and effectively.

dyna mo 05-12-2010 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterPeabody (Post 17132629)
Interesting thread. As someone who literally - literally now - started with ZERO I am one of "those" who got into this business for that very reason: I had zero and there are very few opportunities out there to be successful starting with zero money yet limitless 'sweat equity'.

So I believe in hard work, new guys getting into the business, not having limitations, being a success when almost everyone else is hurting or leaving or predicting doom. Perhaps it's my personality, or the fact that I've been a success - MY definition of success, mind you (the only def that counts, to me) - in every single thing I've ever done, ever. Of course, the "success" of which I gloat only came after years of struggle, disappointment, failure and learning. :)

So I knew this wouldn't be an 'easy' gig but could, potentially, pay off big time (I want to post silly GFY threads from my hot tub, too, like Mr. Frisky did earlier today). Do I lament not getting into porn back in '01, '02, '03? You betcha - but I simply cannot get my damn time machine to work properly so fuck it. LOL

The reason I quoted Robbie here - instead of the other 1/2 dozen or so excellent points made by others - is that what he wrote is, in my opinion, a major reason I "made it" (so far): modeling. I didn't try to re-invent the wheel, so to speak. (Well okay, when I knew nada back in '07 I did, but everyone does that at first.) Six months in I knew I'd better start 'copying', as Robbie puts it, others' success, and start doing what THEY were doing. I also looked at sites that were NOT successful so I could NOT do what they were doing. LOL

But then I found what I think is CRUCIAL to anyone's success, especially these days: a twist. Something just a wee differant than all the other stuff people see when they surf porn. Maybe it's a "so crappy it stands out" tour design, or maybe a funny/sexy video where you laugh first then get turned on. Maybe it's a little pervert in a green trenchcoat someone can instantly recognize as a 'brand'. Who knows? Keep trying til something clicks.

So what I'm saying here is this: follow the leaders...up to a point. Then, when you've learned just enough to be dangerous, try throwing in a little 'twist', something unique to YOU/your sites that will make you stand out a little. It will go a long way. be your own Leader, for your own World. :)

i think what you are saying is spot-on and congrats to your success- so far.

:thumbsup

kristin 05-12-2010 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shap (Post 17132638)
Absolutely. The owner of that site is really smart. He's been successful for many years and continues to operate quietly and effectively.

One of the largest sites out there. That man can burn some bandwidth.

UFGators2007 05-12-2010 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roly (Post 17131903)
THE major reason the industry is suffering is because people no longer have to pay for it.

That's exactly RIGHT. FREE SHIT! The consumer and their expectations have changed.

I don't buy the rhetoric about LEADERS not having insight into what makes them successful. Beleive me, successful or not, leaders understand their strengths and weaknesses much better than the affiliate because they have the site analytics and customer data that we don't.

Shap 05-12-2010 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Due (Post 17132626)
I think the industry took a bad turn when the industry stopped evolving.

I haven't seen any fresh a cool ideas in porn for years. The adult business used to lead the way, now it copies the mainstream.

People will pay for an experience, the market of paying 39.95 / month for access to 2500 videos getting 3 updates / day is dying, that's why cross sales became so popular.

I agree.

One guy I think does a good job at staying hungry and trying to evolve is Andreas from Naughty America. :winkwink:

BFT3K 05-12-2010 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roald (Post 17132631)
Actually Leo does have some affiliates ;)))

I would add their link to my membership area in a heartbeat if I can become an affiliate.

I would add them to all of my blogs, and create new blogs for them as well.

Hit me up if you know how to become an affiliate - I would love to be onboard...

support (at) PeckerPass.com

Thanks!

Shap 05-12-2010 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UFGators2007 (Post 17132652)
That's exactly RIGHT. FREE SHIT! The consumer and their expectations have changed.

I don't buy the rhetoric about LEADERS not having insight into what makes them successful. Beleive me, successful or not, leaders understand their strengths and weaknesses much better than the affiliate because they have the site analytics and customer data that we don't.

A note to others. Saying or Quoting the people that say free shit or tubes really doesn't do much for your rep. You are best to just STFU and move on to the next thread.

DateDoc 05-12-2010 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shap (Post 17131851)
There are a number of reasons our industry isn't doing great. Here, in my opinion, is one of the bigger ones....

The barrier to entry has always been very low. That coupled with the nature of our business has allowed a number of unqualified people get into the industry. People that shouldn't be in business in the first place. They were able to make good money because it was easy to make money. Now that times are tough they are completely screwed. They never truly understood why they were successful or how to be successful. They are trying to re-create the past with no success and don't know where to turn. The old tricks aren't working and they've blown all the money they had and are now screwed.

Now more than ever it's easy to see who the real entrepreneurs and who got lucky.

What do you think?

That does not make sense to me as you are saying the business WAS too easy to get into and it WAS easy to make money. Now that the economy has gone south these people are no longer making money and do not know what to do. This SHOULD make them look elsewhere for work which would be a POSITIVE thing for those the business as a whole.

UFGators2007 05-12-2010 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shap (Post 17132680)
A note to others. Saying or Quoting the people that say free shit or tubes really doesn't do much for your rep. You are best to just STFU and move on to the next thread.

I'm not here for a 'Rep', and I'm not selling anything. I'm here to provide a point of view, like evryone else. And Free content has indeed changed the game.That's what a discussion board is for ... so take your own advice/acronym.

Shap 05-12-2010 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UFGators2007 (Post 17132707)
I'm not here for a 'Rep', and I'm not selling anything. I'm here to provide a point of view, like evryone else. That's what a discussion board is for ... so take your own advice/acronym.

So you are here to waste time, procrastinate and come up with reasons why you aren't making more. Right?

Roald 05-12-2010 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dyna mo (Post 17132634)
yup. lolz, he's a good guy from what i gathered that night but he's made y'all the poster boy in his mind for what's wrong in the biz today.

Well at least we were mentioned again ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by BFT3K (Post 17132676)
I would add their link to my membership area in a heartbeat if I can become an affiliate.

I would add them to all of my blogs, and create new blogs for them as well.

Hit me up if you know how to become an affiliate - I would love to be onboard...

support (at) PeckerPass.com

Thanks!

If he wants you as an affiliate he will hit you up, sorry!

dyna mo 05-12-2010 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shap (Post 17132680)
A note to others. Saying or Quoting the people that say free shit or tubes really doesn't do much for your rep. You are best to just STFU and move on to the next thread.

is this directed at me?

smutnut 05-12-2010 01:26 PM

I like to watch myself masturbate in the mirror and tell myself how great I am!

Shap 05-12-2010 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dyna mo (Post 17132732)
is this directed at me?

Nope. To the one line complainers :winkwink:

Shap 05-12-2010 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smutnut (Post 17132735)
I like to watch myself masturbate in the mirror and tell myself how great I am!

HOT! Film it and upload it to GayTube. We'll fuzzy out your face if you like :winkwink:

dyna mo 05-12-2010 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shap (Post 17132741)
Nope. To the one line complainers :winkwink:

right on, i misunderstood the comment eh :1orglaugh

Semi-Retired-Dave 05-12-2010 01:32 PM

You don't have to be a Rocket Scientist to know that Tube Sites has in fact hurt the industry. Everyone that knows me asks me how I'm still in Business with all the Free Shit that goes around. I ask people what their favorite Porn sites are and they always give me Free Tube Domains. It's a no brainer. You can get Porn for free and you can find just about anything you want with a little bit of Surfing, and most surfers do just that.

Now, I'm not saying the business has gone away. I've been in this game since 95' I've seen it all. People still buy porn, Our AVS sites still do some decent numbers, we do credit card processing, I see what people pay for, they are definitely paying!!!

This week we are seeing the highest numbers ever for our new Cams Site that's been up and running for about a year now. That tells me something, people are still willing to whip out their credit cards. BUT!!!. It's nothing like it used to be and if anyone is telling you they are making the same amount they used to or more from back in the day, they are lying.

Keep your overhead low, stay in business and when all the Tube sites fade away, you will be at the right place at the right time.

Content theft is straight out Crime, and these tube sites killed our industry with our own content. It's ridicules.

I'm a big believer on keeping your existing members happy. Always update your content area, give them more then what they expect. Spend the same amount time and money on your existing members as you do finding new members.

Stay positive!

smutnut 05-12-2010 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shap (Post 17132746)
HOT! Film it and upload it to GayTube. We'll fuzzy out your face if you like :winkwink:

:1orglaugh:thumbsup

roly 05-12-2010 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justinsain (Post 17132356)
I say you're wrong :)

You've assumed porn is just a form of entertainment.

It's more of a way to satisfy a primal urge.

Go ask 100 people which one they would give up if they had to. Sex or Face-book.

There will always be a need for porn and it won't be replaced by anything.
The only thing that will change it it's content and method of delivery.

exactly, and if the reason for the decline is people aren't looking at porn anymore but using social networking, why is there 5 tubes sites in the webs top 100 busiest sites.

anyone that denies the major reason for the decline in sales is the fact that no one needs to buy porn anymore because they can now get it for free is either deluded or is onvolved with tube sites in some way.

fatfoo 05-12-2010 01:37 PM

Having money allows more valuable options.

Shap 05-12-2010 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberAge-Dave (Post 17132765)
You don't have to be a Rocket Scientist to know that Tube Sites has in fact hurt the industry. Everyone that knows me asks me how I'm still in Business with all the Free Shit that goes around. I ask people what their favorite Porn sites are and they always give me Free Tube Domains. It's a no brainer. You can get Porn for free and you can find just about anything you want with a little bit of Surfing, and most surfers do just that.

Now, I'm not saying the business has gone away. I've been in this game since 95' I've seen it all. People still buy porn, Our AVS sites still do some decent numbers, we do credit card processing, I see what people pay for, they are definitely paying!!!

This week we are seeing the highest numbers ever for our new Cams Site that's been up and running for about a year now. That tells me something, people are still willing to whip out their credit cards. BUT!!!. It's nothing like it used to be and if anyone is telling you they are making the same amount they used to or more from back in the day, they are lying.

Keep your overhead low, stay in business and when all the Tube sites fade away, you will be at the right place at the right time.

Content theft is straight out Crime, and these tube sites killed our industry with our own content. It's ridicules.

Stay positive!

I agree. Part of my original point if we had all been better businessmen we would have never let that happen. I'm just as guilty.

The Gay market is a really interesting example. The large gay studios are suing the shit out of tube sites. And they are having relatively good success at keeping their content off it. The general feeling amongst Gay Tube sites is you don't want to fuck with the Gay Studios. As a result our numbers on GayTube are SICK! As an example we put up one video of a site and got 65+ signups on the first day to that site. I believe we got 45 on the second day. And I'm not talking free signups either.

trevesty 05-12-2010 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head (Post 17132398)
It would seem that the logical answer is to incorporate the two together and provide an all around solution. Yes?

Yes. That's what we're doing with Pornoob, or attempting to anyway. We'll see how it takes off.

BestXXXPorn 05-12-2010 01:45 PM

Shap,

I couldn't agree more with your posts in this thread...

I come from mainstream and when choosing a new market to go into I decided to take a serious look at the adult industry. I had always heard it was way ahead of every other industry and blah blah blah...

When I started to take a closer look I realized while the adult industry knows how to generate traffic and skim probably better than most other markets it has fallen WAY behind in terms of user experience. Virtually every pay site is nothing more than a glorified gallery based off of one of a few different frameworks. I don't know of any major players in mainstream that use a prebuilt framework...

The more I learn of the average adult site the more it becomes apparent that there are a LOT of companies lacking knowledge... For example, how many companies do A/B testing? That simple fact alone speaks LEAGUES about this industry.

That being said I decided to dive into the adult market. I've been in development for over a year now and plan to launch on 10.10.10... When completed I will have put about $250k in development into this site (if I were billing). I'm fortunate enough to be a developer with a lot of experience so it's a sweat equity only investment (minus basic hosting costs, etc...) for me.

The face of the adult game is changing. The industry is "growing up" in my opinion and it's got a few more years before it settles down. I'm hoping to hit post summer slump with my launch date and ride the curve up to get things kicked off, positioning myself to be a major player within the next few years.

IMO the barrier of entry remains the same however the results from entering the market on the low end will take a massive hit. You're going to need to breach the barrier at a higher point if you want to stick around and be very profitable.

UFGators2007 05-12-2010 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shap (Post 17132713)
So you are here to waste time, procrastinate and come up with reasons why you aren't making more. Right?

Boy, you assume a lot. I'm providing an alternate point of view (to yours) which is that the performance of some businesses is depend on consumer behavior/ expectations. Take the troubles of adult print magazine industry. They have had to adapt to consumer behavior and you can't say that these leaders don't understand what made them successful.

will76 05-12-2010 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shap (Post 17132348)
Tony you are DEAD DEAD DEAD ON! I think we talked about this in your suite in Miami last august. Social Media started the industry decline not tubes. The 18 to 30 demographic can get WAAAAAY more out of social media than a porn site. Hell they may even REALLY score. On a personal level I spend so much time on social media I have no time left for porn and I know I'm not the only one.

they can get waay more out of a social networking site then they can from a dating site, but I don't agree vs a porn site. There is no nudity on facebook, myspace. There is no nudity on those sites.

I think social networking sites have cut into dating sites, mainly because most of the adult dating sites don't even have real people on them in the first place. Sure you can hook up on social networking sites, but I don't see it as a substitute to porn.

I see you and a few other people here think social networking sites are killing porn. Your "proof" is based on the amount of time that younger people are spending on social networking sites. While it is a fact that this younger generation does spend a lot of time on these sites, it doesn't mean they gave up porn time for social networking. Perhaps they watch TV less, or play less video games. Porn is NOT entertainment IMO. It is not in the same category as watching movies, playing games, hanging out with friends etc. Porn is something you do when you get horny. You don't get less horny just because you spending a lot of time on facebook, and there is nothing to jerk off to on facebook.

What seems more plausible, there is less people buying porn now because:
1. They are maxed out on their credit cards.
2. Because they get it for free on xyz tube site.
3. Because they are too busy chatting with friends on facebook.

Shap's argument that TGP sites started tanking before tube sites came out. 1 I don't agree, but even if they did, the top 5 tube sites today get more traffic than all of the tgp sites combined got 5 years ago. If people were so busy on social networking sites and that killed porn then why is there so many porn tube sites in the top 100 sites in the world??? Tube sites are 100x more popular than tgps. What happened was tube sites drained all of the tgp sites AND a lot of the pic and video sites, and pooled all of that into a handfull of top ranked tube sites.

will76 05-12-2010 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shap (Post 17132519)
I agree.

You know what's interesting about you Will? I know you get into a lot of heated discussions on the board but it's obvious you are no dummy. Far from it. I'd love to meet you one day and have a drink and a conversation with you. Something tells me face to face we'd probably get along and have a really interesting conversation.

i didn't know it was interesting that I wasn't an ass kisser and that I speak my mind. I am 100% exactly the same way in person. If people like honestly and good feedback, then they should like me. A lot of people prefer to have some one agree with them vs disagree with them and give them another perspective or hell possibly even the correct answer. I also think it is easy to miss understand people online because of the lack of facial expressions and tone of voice.

I don't need to toot my own horn, but I am pretty knowledgeable and have done really well for myself. I only get involved in subjects that I know really well, unlike a lot of other people who like to put their 2 cents in everything.

I should be making a show before the end of the year, if so i'll take you up on that offer for a drink.

BestXXXPorn 05-12-2010 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by will76 (Post 17132809)
Shap's argument that TGP sites started tanking before tube sites came out. 1 I don't agree, but even if they did, the top 5 tube sites today get more traffic than all of the tgp sites combined got 5 years ago. If people were so busy on social networking sites and that killed porn then why is there so many porn tube sites in the top 100 sites in the world??? Tube sites are 100x more popular than tgps. What happened was tube sites drained all of the tgp sites AND a lot of the pic and video sites, and pooled all of that into a handfull of top ranked tube sites.

There's not a single user I know of that LIKES TGPs... maybe to look at a page but the endless skimming/new windows gets fucking OLD. Nobody likes that crap it's just a way to push junk traffic along and artificially bounce traffic back and forth between sites and/or traffic resellers... They're a joke, seriously... Good for pushing link juice if you know what you're doing but as far as for users... sure some of the traffic will convert but they're just feeder sites. The user experience is garbage.

TGPs started tanking because people got tired of the crap. Additional avenues to look at hot naked chicks opened up and surfers tried to avoid the TGPs. Tubes happened along just as TGPs were taking a dive and I'm sure accelerated this rate; not only is it MOVING pictures but there's also less skimming, more of staying on the same site, and a better user experience. :2 cents:

Amputate Your Head 05-12-2010 01:56 PM

There's a heavy Bromance heating up in here too...

will76 05-12-2010 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shap (Post 17132566)
Good post I agree with almost all of it. The one thing I disagree with is I don't feel we ever had a shake down. I think the guys who made big money early left. They didn't get shook down in most cases they hit a level of $$$ they were happy with left and moved on to bigger things. A lot of those guys were REALLY smart and it's a shame they aren't around today. The guys who came in after them have been able to survive until the last 18 months. Now the shakedown is going to start happening and happening more than ever. In a year from now I think the list of WHERE ARE THEY NOW programs/sites/webmasters will be much bigger than it is today. Probably double.

I can tell you there was a good bit of people that I remember talking to back in 2003/04 that was telling me " damn, i should have saved some of my money while it lasted" etc. There were a lot of people who made it, blew it, and then it was gone and they were out.

I guess today's big guys, were at least smart enough to not blow it all and reinvested into their own membership sites and other revenue generating ventures that have been dropping like a rock the last couple years. There is two ways you make money in this industry and in any really: you cheat or your bust your ass. Either way you have to be good at what you do, it is just a lot easier to make a lot of money if you are a good cheater vs being a good business person.
The "cheater" bangs credit cards, and installs spyware on people's pcs to make 100's of signups. The good business man has to be better than his competition, be innovative, and has to bust his ass working hard.

The good business men, who have continued to work hard, innovative, and beat the competition are doing fine today. They may be making less than they did in the past but they are still moving right along.

The good business men, who made "ok" money in the past because they took the weekends off, didn't always have the best ideas, etc... they are hurting now and in trouble.

I think the big guys you referring to who are the people who resorted to cheating when the dumb easy money was gone. They continue to try to find the easy way to make money. For example, instead of offering a great product and developing your own traffic, they just make a couple deals and buy cross sales. If cross sales go away then they fucked until they try to find another easy way to make money. Those people will run out of luck sooner or later, if that isn't happening already. I hope the ones who are actually doing illegal shit end up in jail. I could have made 10x more money if I went the shitty route, but I rather be able to sleep at night and know my ass wont be in jail.

The Porn Nerd 05-12-2010 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dyna mo (Post 17132643)
i think what you are saying is spot-on and congrats to your success- so far.

:thumbsup

Thank you - and to your continued success!

Just looked at my stats for Feb-April (3 months).

Traffic is up 32%
Sales network-wide are remarkably stable, within 5 + or - sales weekly (odd)
Some sites UP in sales, some sites DOWN in sales
Monthly Rebills: down 22%
(Rebill pattern getting worse, too: ppl join, rebill once maybe twice instead of four or five times, cancel, rejoin, repeat; noticing more and more familiar names on the sign-ups)
3 Month Rebills (biggest discount) UP 19%

So this is good AND bad. LOL So the tide MUST turn, in either direction, relatively soon because this kind of balancing act can't last forever.

Summer's coming, 50+ new affiliates in the past month alone, so a change is a-gonna come. Wonder if it will be good or bad?

Ravage 05-12-2010 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by will76 (Post 17132809)
they can get waay more out of a social networking site then they can from a dating site, but I don't agree vs a porn site. There is no nudity on facebook, myspace. There is no nudity on those sites.

I'll agree with that to an extent, but you may have overlooked the impact social networking can/has done.

Think about word of mouth between friends, posting "Check this out" with links on their walls to tube sites, in private messages, IM's, etc. It has grown a very large community of savvy free porn surfers. Its taught purchasers of porn sites how to now get it for free, etc.

In addition to that, we have to constantly think about today's 'new credit' people. This years 18-year-olds, getting their first credit cards. Much more internet/computer savvy than 10-years ago. What does it take to get these 'new credit' students to plunk down their CC digits. What are they experiencing in 'Today's Web' that wasn't there 10-years ago, etc

Robbie 05-12-2010 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by will76 (Post 17132809)
the top 5 tube sites today get more traffic than all of the tgp sites combined got 5 years ago. If people were so busy on social networking sites and that killed porn then why is there so many porn tube sites in the top 100 sites in the world???

Yep, porn will always be VERY popular. Social networking sites and other forms of entertainment are very popular as well. But you're right. Porn sites have more traffic than ever. Problem is...it's ALL on the tubes and torrents giving away entire members areas.

AcidMax 05-12-2010 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberAge-Dave (Post 17132765)
You don't have to be a Rocket Scientist to know that Tube Sites has in fact hurt the industry. Everyone that knows me asks me how I'm still in Business with all the Free Shit that goes around. I ask people what their favorite Porn sites are and they always give me Free Tube Domains. It's a no brainer. You can get Porn for free and you can find just about anything you want with a little bit of Surfing, and most surfers do just that.

Kind of a cop-out imho. Had you asked surfers what their favorite site was 5 or more years ago, it probably would have been the hun, al4a, etc. AVS sites, while not entirely free, used Free Sites and such to support them, Free is definitely nothing new, tubes are just the new version, it takes ingenuity to make it all work.

Quote:

Now, I'm not saying the business has gone away. I've been in this game since 95' I've seen it all. People still buy porn, Our AVS sites still do some decent numbers, we do credit card processing, I see what people pay for, they are definitely paying!!!

This week we are seeing the highest numbers ever for our new Cams Site that's been up and running for about a year now. That tells me something, people are still willing to whip out their credit cards. BUT!!!. It's nothing like it used to be and if anyone is telling you they are making the same amount they used to or more from back in the day, they are lying.
I think you are just seeing what increased bandwidth speeds and the need for instant gratification are creating. Why would you go to a porn site and look at thousands of shitty photo sets when you can get real time video chat on a cams site? I don't think tubes are necessarily the cause, but just the simple fact people have more bandwidth, why not watch a movie?

Quote:

Keep your overhead low, stay in business and when all the Tube sites fade away, you will be at the right place at the right time.

Content theft is straight out Crime, and these tube sites killed our industry with our own content. It's ridicules.

I'm a big believer on keeping your existing members happy. Always update your content area, give them more then what they expect. Spend the same amount time and money on your existing members as you do finding new members.

Stay positive!
I don't think TUBE sites will ever go away, not with the popularity of YouTube etc., but you will see them fade away just as you did with AVS's, TGP's etc. The big ones stay, the small ones wither away. I definitely do not condone stealing content, I hate it with a passion, but there is a way to make money with tubes if done properly. Same thing with any other website, people just need to stop thinking like its 1999. This whole business like any other business is cyclical.


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