Originally Posted by BestXXXPorn (Post 17132832)

There's not a single user I know of that LIKES TGPs... maybe to look at a page but the endless skimming/new windows gets fucking OLD. Nobody likes that crap it's just a way to push junk traffic along and artificially bounce traffic back and forth between sites and/or traffic resellers... They're a joke, seriously... Good for pushing link juice if you know what you're doing but as far as for users... sure some of the traffic will convert but they're just feeder sites. The user experience is garbage.

TGPs started tanking because people got tired of the crap. Additional avenues to look at hot naked chicks opened up and surfers tried to avoid the TGPs. Tubes happened along just as TGPs were taking a dive and I'm sure accelerated this rate; not only is it MOVING pictures but there's also less skimming, more of staying on the same site, and a better user experience. :2 cents:

Originally Posted by Shap (Post 17132638)

Absolutely. The owner of that site is really smart. He's been successful for many years and continues to operate quietly and effectively.

Originally Posted by Due (Post 17132626)

I think the industry took a bad turn when the industry stopped evolving.

I haven't seen any fresh a cool ideas in porn for years. The adult business used to lead the way, now it copies the mainstream.

People will pay for an experience, the market of paying 39.95 / month for access to 2500 videos getting 3 updates / day is dying, that's why cross sales became so popular.

Originally Posted by will76 (Post 17132929)

sorry but that is not logical. People didn't one day say hey tgp sites suck, I am tired of it. I am not going to look at porn till something better comes along. time goes by.... Oh thank good, here is a tube site I can look at porn again. :upsidedow

people will always go for the best free deal. Person x goes to the hun once a day to jerk off. He comes across a tube site, he sees that the tube site has more to offer, he stops going to the hun. It really is that simple.

Originally Posted by MisterPeabody (Post 17132884)

Thank you - and to your continued success!

Just looked at my stats for Feb-April (3 months).

Traffic is up 32%
Sales network-wide are remarkably stable, within 5 + or - sales weekly (odd)
Some sites UP in sales, some sites DOWN in sales
Monthly Rebills: down 22%
(Rebill pattern getting worse, too: ppl join, rebill once maybe twice instead of four or five times, cancel, rejoin, repeat; noticing more and more familiar names on the sign-ups)
3 Month Rebills (biggest discount) UP 19%

So this is good AND bad. LOL So the tide MUST turn, in either direction, relatively soon because this kind of balancing act can't last forever.

Summer's coming, 50+ new affiliates in the past month alone, so a change is a-gonna come. Wonder if it will be good or bad?

Originally Posted by dyna mo (Post 17132932)

Originally Posted by will76 (Post 17132871)

I can tell you there was a good bit of people that I remember talking to back in 2003/04 that was telling me " damn, i should have saved some of my money while it lasted" etc. There were a lot of people who made it, blew it, and then it was gone and they were out.

I guess today's big guys, were at least smart enough to not blow it all and reinvested into their own membership sites and other revenue generating ventures that have been dropping like a rock the last couple years. There is two ways you make money in this industry and in any really: you cheat or your bust your ass. Either way you have to be good at what you do, it is just a lot easier to make a lot of money if you are a good cheater vs being a good business person.
The "cheater" bangs credit cards, and installs spyware on people's pcs to make 100's of signups. The good business man has to be better than his competition, be innovative, and has to bust his ass working hard.

The good business men, who have continued to work hard, innovative, and beat the competition are doing fine today. They may be making less than they did in the past but they are still moving right along.

The good business men, who made "ok" money in the past because they took the weekends off, didn't always have the best ideas, etc... they are hurting now and in trouble.

I think the big guys you referring to who are the people who resorted to cheating when the dumb easy money was gone. They continue to try to find the easy way to make money. For example, instead of offering a great product and developing your own traffic, they just make a couple deals and buy cross sales. If cross sales go away then they fucked until they try to find another easy way to make money. Those people will run out of luck sooner or later, if that isn't happening already. I hope the ones who are actually doing illegal shit end up in jail. I could have made 10x more money if I went the shitty route, but I rather be able to sleep at night and know my ass wont be in jail.

Originally Posted by RP Fade (Post 17132975)

I agree with you Shap but I also think that instead of being unified, we're fragmented. Instead of debilitating, we enable. Instead of innovating, they copy. Instead of creating, they steal.

And so on..

Originally Posted by Adult Rental Chris (Post 17132886)

I'll agree with that to an extent, but you may have overlooked the impact social networking can/has done.

Think about word of mouth between friends, posting "Check this out" with links on their walls to tube sites, in private messages, IM's, etc. It has grown a very large community of savvy free porn surfers. Its taught purchasers of porn sites how to now get it for free, etc.

In addition to that, we have to constantly think about today's 'new credit' people. This years 18-year-olds, getting their first credit cards. Much more internet/computer savvy than 10-years ago. What does it take to get these 'new credit' students to plunk down their CC digits. What are they experiencing in 'Today's Web' that wasn't there 10-years ago, etc

Originally Posted by RP Fade (Post 17132975)

I agree with you Shap but I also think that instead of being unified, we're fragmented. Instead of debilitating, we enable. Instead of innovating, they copy. Instead of creating, they steal.

And so on..

Originally Posted by Nysus (Post 17132965)

I would say you're right. It's not the industry suffering, but the people in the industry suffering because they can't adapt because they, as you said, don't know why they were making money. Good 2 cents.

Originally Posted by Nysus (Post 17132980)

Are you implying people are using the internet more now to be social instead of masturbating as much? :upsidedow

Originally Posted by SZNY (Post 17132931)

Yeah is for sure very smart. Many years only promoting other cam sites and then starting one on his own.

If you look and compare MFC with other cam sites he is the only one that is booming and it's because he has a totally different approach compared with other cam sites.

There is almost no innovation and most programs are still floating on a business model that once made them success. Obviously it still makes money but it will never increase again unless you change your settings.

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head (Post 17132993)

How is this different from the competitive environment in any other industry? Sure, every once in a while we all pull some amazing shit out thin air, but the reality is that's the way the whole planet works. Everyone copies everyone. Competing militarys do it every day. No one is exempt. Even theoretical physicists copy & steal pieces of other's theories and incorporate bits into their own.

It just is.

Originally Posted by RP Fade (Post 17133026)

Yes and no. If one person is jumping off the bridge, does not mean everyone else has to and that it's a good idea. Copying good ideas is one thing, but copying things that are destructive and damaging is another.

For example, the record industry saw a common enemy and banded to together for the greater good of the industry. We see an enemy and try to figure out how we can milk it and make money at it. One shady program starts doing $100 pps payouts by either ripping off the surfer or the webmaster, other programs copy them just to compete, no matter how much of terrible idea and how damaging it is in the longrun.

Originally Posted by RP Fade (Post 17133026)

Yes and no. If one person is jumping off the bridge, does not mean everyone else has to and that it's a good idea. Copying good ideas is one thing, but copying things that are destructive and damaging is another.

For example, the record industry saw a common enemy and banded to together for the greater good of the industry. We see an enemy and try to figure out how we can milk it and make money at it. One shady program starts doing $100 pps payouts by either ripping off the surfer or the webmaster, other programs copy them just to compete, no matter how much of terrible idea and how damaging it is in the longrun.

Originally Posted by RP Fade (Post 17133026)

Yes and no. If one person is jumping off the bridge, does not mean everyone else has to and that it's a good idea. Copying good ideas is one thing, but copying things that are destructive and damaging is another.

For example, the record industry saw a common enemy and banded to together for the greater good of the industry. We see an enemy and try to figure out how we can milk it and make money at it. One shady program starts doing $100 pps payouts by either ripping off the surfer or the webmaster, other programs copy them just to compete, no matter how much of terrible idea and how damaging it is in the longrun.

Originally Posted by RP Fade (Post 17133026)

One shady program starts doing $100 pps payouts by either ripping off the surfer or the webmaster, other programs copy them just to compete, no matter how much of terrible idea and how damaging it is in the longrun.

Originally Posted by RP Fade (Post 17133026)

If one person is jumping off the bridge, does not mean everyone else has to and that it's a good idea.

Originally Posted by AcidMax (Post 17133045)

Not all of this can be pinned on the "FREE" side of the business by any means.

Originally Posted by will76 (Post 17132978)

Its fun to look at stats from day to day or month to month. But you really need long periods of time to get a good feel and you need large volumes of traffic to get good averages.

My sales can go up 100% one month from the next but its from MY work, not other conditions. The biggest factor that affects your sales is you.

Don't worry about the "summer slow down" unless you slow down. ie, there is no such thing as a summer slow down. People make less during the summer typically because that is when THEY work less. (see my first comment about you being the biggest factor controlling your sales). Programs might see dips during the summer but that is because their affiliates are working less. It is NOT because people stop jerking off during the summer :winkwink:

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head (Post 17133052)

So the question is, if it's damaging to your biz, why line up to jump off?

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head (Post 17133052)

So the question is, if it's damaging to your biz, why line up to jump off? And why have so many? I'm trying to relate to a program owner's perspective here, because I'm not one. I guess the closest thing I can think of as an analogy is how designers have a tendency to continue cutting their fees to nearly nothing, and in the case of "design contests" to literally nothing except for the "lucky" winner. I consider those things damaging to my business, and so I do not "jump off the bridge".

Only the program owners can explain why they do the things they do. I think they're all a little nutty anyway. :1orglaugh

Originally Posted by Shap (Post 17131851)

There are a number of reasons our industry isn't doing great. Here, in my opinion, is one of the bigger ones....

The barrier to entry has always been very low. That coupled with the nature of our business has allowed a number of unqualified people get into the industry. People that shouldn't be in business in the first place. They were able to make good money because it was easy to make money. Now that times are tough they are completely screwed. They never truly understood why they were successful or how to be successful. They are trying to re-create the past with no success and don't know where to turn. The old tricks aren't working and they've blown all the money they had and are now screwed.

Now more than ever it's easy to see who the real entrepreneurs and who got lucky.

What do you think?

Originally Posted by Headless (Post 17133284)

I think the question is.... When was the last time YOU paid for porn?

Think about it...

Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 17133314)

As an affiliate with access to any user/pass I want anytime...that doesn't really apply. To most of us in the biz it just doesn't really apply as most can get a user/pass with a simple email to the owner of the site.

I do see sites that I would join though. And every time I do it always comes down to the way a girl looks.

If the girl has something that makes my cock hard, that's what catches me. And that don't mean "perfect 10" babes either. Just some strange little quirk that makes my dick jump. It could be a real big ass on a skinny girl. Or a certain set of titties. Or a girls personality. But isn't that kinda what it's always been?

Then the next question I have to ask is...do I need to join this site to see what I want? Or is it already totally and completely ripped and free on a torrent site?

Or if I join the site do I have a chance to fuck her? Or at least establish an online relationship with her via email etc.

That's the kind of thing that really makes a site special. A girl who has that certain "it" factor. A great personality. Live interaction. And communication with members.

People WILL buy that.

The harder sell are the big mega sites full of outsourced content or even in-house production content of girls for hire that can be found everywhere else and you can't interact with them on the site you're trying to sell.

Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 17133314)

As an affiliate with access to any user/pass I want anytime...that doesn't really apply. To most of us in the biz it just doesn't really apply as most can get a user/pass with a simple email to the owner of the site.

I do see sites that I would join though. And every time I do it always comes down to the way a girl looks.

If the girl has something that makes my cock hard, that's what catches me. And that don't mean "perfect 10" babes either. Just some strange little quirk that makes my dick jump. It could be a real big ass on a skinny girl. Or a certain set of titties. Or a girls personality. But isn't that kinda what it's always been?

Then the next question I have to ask is...do I need to join this site to see what I want? Or is it already totally and completely ripped and free on a torrent site?

Or if I join the site do I have a chance to fuck her? Or at least establish an online relationship with her via email etc.

That's the kind of thing that really makes a site special. A girl who has that certain "it" factor. A great personality. Live interaction. And communication with members.

People WILL buy that.

The harder sell are the big mega sites full of outsourced content or even in-house production content of girls for hire that can be found everywhere else and you can't interact with them on the site you're trying to sell.

Originally Posted by Headless (Post 17133349)

I agree 100%.

What I am saying is... In todays world nobody has to pay to jerk it. We can find anything we want for free. Its just the way it is.... The only people who are going to pay for porn will find that extra "value" added. Whether they find it by a tickle in their pickle or some other way...

Thats what different today verses 10 years ago... It's just too easy to find it free.

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head (Post 17133362)

What about these mainstream media companies that are either already charging for their content, or are about to be? Is there really anything in the Wall Street Journal that I can't find for free? So why does anyone pay for it?

Originally Posted by Headless (Post 17133369)

The only people that pay for the service are either 1. doing so because it's the "right thing" to do... or 2. They enjoy the ease of access premium content.

Originally Posted by Headless (Post 17133369)

The only people that pay for the service are either 1. doing so because it's the "right thing" to do... or 2. They enjoy the ease of access premium content.

Originally Posted by Shap (Post 17132372)

Trust me you are wrong. My team and I have spent many hours researching our stats (as well as others). The downturn in tgp traffic (and other sources) started before tubes. It started when Myspace and Facebook blew up.

Originally Posted by BFT3K (Post 17132320)

Too much free content = less sales... period!

Stop giving everything away for free, and maybe people will care to buy again.

Sales still exist, despite the industries best efforts to destroy itself from within, but as long as you are giving the milk away for free there is less and less reason for anyone to buy the cow.

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head (Post 17133425)

And that's all anyone is ever going to get. Whether it's the WSJ or "Watch Me Fuck My Donkey .com"

This whole topic has been kicking around for at least ten years. Everything is out there. It's just the way it is. Anything is free if you want to spend a few minutes looking for it. Freeloaders can't be bullied or forced into buying memberships. No amount of discussion is ever going to change that. It's no different than the cable & satellite companies. I can probably see everything I want online if I spend enough time looking around, or watch from a friend's tv, (like sharing a password). But I prefer the convenience of premium content that does not require effort on my part to view at any time. That's why I continue to pay them. But you can't win them all. There will always be people that refuse to pay for television as well. The online adult biz is not special or different. :2 cents:

Originally Posted by dyna mo (Post 17133418)

there are a lot of these types people in the world.

imo, tubes skimmed off many of the free loaders that would of never paid anyway.

Originally Posted by RP Fade (Post 17132975)

Instead of innovating, they copy. Instead of creating, they steal. And so on..

Originally Posted by BFT3K (Post 17132617)

This is a brilliant site. It is to webcam sites what tubes are to porn sites.

http://www.myfreecams.com/

I have no affiliation, and the reason I am aware of it is because the URL was posted here on GFY a number of times now.

You can communicate directly with the models, and ask them to do whatever you want, in real time.

It is not FB, but I suppose it is a social network of some sort.

A genius business model, and no affiliate program at all.

Addictive, dirty, and fun.

Will likely serve as the new webcam business model for the next generation of webcam sites. Not sure how it helps me in any way, but certainly interesting on many levels.

Easy, innovative, assorted models, direct communication, live sex... brilliant!

Originally Posted by MisterPeabody (Post 17133676)

One of the biggest problems this Industry faces is that porn, adult, etc has hit a 'tech wall' that's hard to bust through.

What I mean is that porn was always the leader in technology, from VCRs to DVDs and CD-Roms, then online, etc. But once you've gone to the "watch porn on your phone! Watch it on your watch! On your laptop, on your car phone, on this, on that..." then we've hit a wall. People keep saying INNOVATE! But HOW?

At the end of the day it's really quite simple, isn't it? We sell pictures and movies for people to masturbate to and fantasize over. Case closed. So getting interactive is fine, great, but 3D porn? Virtual porn? What's next, and how do we even get there? Consumers won't have 3-D porn machines setup for us to sell to. LOL

No, we've gone just about as far as technology will take us so it comes down to selling shit you can't get for free, or things (fetish) people know they have to pay more to see and can't easily find free (horses pissing, etc). Ramp up the illusion a member can fuck his dream girl somehow, whether it be through chat or cams or emails. But in the end this is IT ladies and gentlemen. There IS no 'next big thing" we're all waiting for to "save us". THIS is it.

Besides, if something DOES come along to revolutionize this Industry and re-start the gold rush it'll come out of nowhere, and no one will see it coming, so why fret? Either continue to work yer ass off, maybe re-adjust your expectations, or stop. If it gets too much in terms of effort vs. little reward then get out and do something else. Chances are you had a life before Adult so chances are you'll have one after Adult, right?

I like to simplify things, you see.

Originally Posted by Headless (Post 17133470)

Nice way too look at it... But wouldn't then ratios improve if we use the same thinking?

Originally Posted by BV (Post 17133717)

It has only increased year after year since the beginning and logic tells me that it will keep doing so. (none of us can stop it)

Originally Posted by MrBaldBastard (Post 17133710)

I think a lot of people forget when the net was young 97-2000 porn was basically the only way to make money online.

Originally Posted by BV (Post 17133717)

It will never be like it was.

The only hope we have is that the economy picks up and millions of people get their credit limits back. ( and I don't see that happening any time soon)

I don't see free porn going away.

It has only increased year after year since the beginning and logic tells me that it will keep doing so. (none of us can stop it)