50 tasered porn star samuri.

Every decision in life, business, government and everything else is and must be based at least partly on practicality. Its ludicrous to think that dozens of police officers and cars and ambulances and whatever else should stand by indefinitely while a crazy, sword weielding man decides if or when he might surrender at some point hours or days later when he gets too tired to stand anymore. I don't know what your problem with the police is, but obviously you must have gotten arrested or treated badly by them at some point in your life and this prepesterous argument is one of the results.

saves our tax dollars

These police might not be your common police.

"prepesterous argument"?

Let me just double check to make sure I got this down right.... The police killed an unarmed man (for all intents and purposes when you're up against a whole precinct of police armed with guns & tasers) by forcing him off a cliff after tasering him in the back, twice, and you support that because you think they have better things to do?

this is not, nor will it ever be the first or last time cops taser someone who is on a ledge, cliff, balcony, possibly not all there mentally etc... tasering is supposed to occur when the officer is under attack or threatened, fear of life or death stuff.

Murderer or not, the cops werent in fear of their life at all thats for sure, they tasered him for no real reason, media will just say "he jumped" And thats that.

However, if he killed someone in my family I wouldnt care, but thats not really how the system works. So how the cops handle the situation then becomes discussion, but only amongst civilians, media doesnt care nor do the higher up cops. The bad guy = dead is happy ending.

Whether or not the cops should taser people in these instances, = nothing more than debate amongst the third class.

He will not be missed.

They took too much time, deadly force should have been authorized way before that point.

"What should they have done?"

Already stated. Waited him out. All you needed was 1 officer who was trained at something important.. listening. Engaging. Talking him down.

But it clearly wasn't "worth it". I'm not sure they'd think I was worth it either. How could I know?

They should have hired a rodeo cowboy to lasso his ass and drag him away.

Cops are, generally, lower-educated and blue collar and working class. they tend to be the kind of people who, in High School, got off on beating other kids up. So they go right from HS into "da Force" and pretty much stop developing as human beings and begin punching the clock, hoping for that twenty year pension.

So these lower-intelligence people - cops - got frustrated by standing around for eight hours and did what dumb, uneducated, frustrated people DO when confronted by situations they cannot understand or control: they got violent.

BIG shock.

Horrible situation, all around, from soup to nuts, from samuarai sword to tazer.

on what grounds, he was not a threat to anyone ?

" hi can i get authorization to kill this dude ? "

" what is he doing ? "

" nothing we are just really bored , and it is hot out "

" ok kill him then "

should have taken a lesson from Red Dead Redemtion (been playing it all weekend) and lasso'd the fucker...

You seem to have forgotten he already killed someone and hurt others? Clearly he is a threat to others and himself, clearly he isn't innocent... And if you have a weapon, and you threaten a Cop - they don't really have to ask to use deadly force.

Innocence or guilt is not up to the police to decide.
I've seen that video several times now and I don't remember seeing him even once threaten the police with his prop sword.

Cops aren't here to judge you, that's the courts job. They do take into consideration if you're the correct person or not, in this situation this was the guy, without question.

You watched 30 seconds of a full day event and didn't see him threaten them... technically speaking, it makes no difference who you threaten, even yourself.

Deadly force doesn't always mean you have to kill them. It's about stopping the situation, when nothing else is working. It can be used when a person is running that 'could' cause harm to another person - and this is a prime example of when it should have been used.

What they did was no different or better than the people that "hunt" wild animals in an enclosed fenced-off area. Get your target into a corner, and kill it.

What situation were they stopping?

Of course the difference is the animal isn't holding a sword that also killed and hurt others with the sword.

Maybe a person that will harm others trying to escape, again?

Right. The animal has teeth and claws that will kill a person much more effectively than some stressed out dude literally on the brink.

He was surrounded by 30-40 cops with nowhere to run. Where was he going to go? Are you suggesting that many cops can't contain one guy without him escaping that situation? If that's true, then the police are much more inept than I originally thought.

Exactly... a stressed dude literally on the brink should have been stopped with deadly force. Again, as I said the situation should have been dealt with way before it reached that point.

He wasn't corned when he was running...

I saw a handful of cops attempting to stop someone that was trying to escape down a cliff.

Are you suggesting one of the cops should have jumped and tackled him? Cause that would be a bit nuts... probably why they tried tasers and when those failed they should have shot him... it might have saved his life.

I'm getting conflicting stories here....

on the one hand, some are saying that the police shouldn't be tied up or bothered chasing down and arresting a murder suspect because they have "better things to do" and should just start shooting people to speed things along.

On the other hand, I'm hearing from you now that it was a "handful" of poor helpless policeman.

So, if it was a "handful", (sure looked like more than a "handful" to me)... what was so pressing that they needed to be pulled away in such a hurry that summary execution was the only alternative?

Distraction, confusion, back-patting, misdirection, deceit, and straight up lying. That's how cover-ups work.

See, this is where this becomes identical to the "Dont tase me bro'!" guy! There was hundreds and hundreds of pounds of cop, everywhere. Neither of these boneheads was "going" anywhere but DOWN and everyone knew it.

I dont understand why tasers are even legal to unholster when there is overwhelming police already present. Propose that bill and it'll pass into law.


Seems that after the guy fell, nobody had trouble getting to the bottom. In fact, the ENTIRE thing was filmed from below. It was not hard to get down there and try to prevent another senseless death and rob the victims families of justice.

That's possible, but you're not getting that conflicting story from me.

It was 7 police officers on Video... Clearly by the video he was standing free, not cornered then he started down the cliff and the police engaged him. No distractions, confusions or anything of the such.

They should have used deadly force on him when he was running or when he threatened to kill himself or at the moment when he tried to escape again. All of which would have probably stopped the current situation from happening.

prop sword?:1orglaugh

strange opinions in this thread..

police job to apprehend the suspect, if suspect resist or a become a threat the suspect must be "neutralized (not killed)", this is the job of the police.
no doubt the suspect in this question would have hurt anyone coming near him, he was on a suicide mission and was not going to be talked "out of killing" himself or others..

Hey Doc, calm down. Here's a fucking suggestion for the police:
How about shooting the fucker in the LEG? How about shooting him with a dart like they do wild animals to make them go to sleep?

(The lasso idea wouldn't work cause he'd chop his way out with the sword.)

Sorry Doc but I'm with AmputateyourHead on this one. The cops had HOURS to think this thing through, to try alternative methods of stopping/capturing this dude. All they did is what I posted above; in frustration do what small-minded people ALWAYS do: resort to the simplest, most cowardly form of violence available.

No defending these cops. But then again, I live in NYC and am used to many people defending the Police no matter WHAT they do and justifying it by saying "I felt threatened so BLAM!"

I think you're agreeing with me... Shooting him in the leg is deadly force, shooting him is the key. It's not deadly force because you kill them, it's deadly force because a deadly type of force was used to diffuse the situation.

I understand why they didn't shoot him at the cliff - even though it should have been authorized to do so. However if they missed or the round went through, it could hit a house or person below them.

Once he proceeded to back up to the edge of the cliff and look like he was going down the cliff, the cops did what they could to stop him, which didn't work. If they would have only used deadly force sooner, he would probably be alive.

I'm not really sure what alternative solution you think the cops should have taken.

I'm about as calm as I can get... :thumbsup

Btw.. I was a Cop/Mp and no longer am for more than one reason, but one being the hypocritical double standard that most "not all" cops have. I'm all up for bashing.... But for every bad dirty cop, you have a straight shooter doing everything he can by the books and breaking no laws himself - 100% dedicated to the job. It's not a one way door as many in this thread like to paint.

I like the idea Peabody mentioned about using a tranq dart. Why not? If they'd hit him with a tranq in the first hour, they could have saved themselves the other 7 hours and no one would have died. Anything wrong with that scenario?

When your wanted for murder anyway what else is there to do?

Sabby:)

What a horrible shot, why can't the show the shot with that other camera that didn't have the tree blocking it.

I'm sure his family will be suing.

You make it sound like they knew the guy was going to fall off a cliff. How about this idea? Wait the guy out like 99% of them end up and cuff the guy..... not to toss out any crazy ideas.

I would assume we don't have tranq darts, or they aren't safe to shoot humans with, maybe nobody is trained on them. But probably no law that authorized the use of them would be my guess.

Why didn't they use rubber bullets, sand bags, pepper spray, flash bangs? They have like 100 things they 'could have done' but those are authorized for use under different situations.

I wonder why it "sounds" like that. :1orglaugh

If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it ain't an eggplant.

Are you now saying the cops knew he would fall off the cliff so they let him?

Hell no. I'm saying what I've been saying all along. The police murdered him, made it look semi-accidental, and will be commended for their "bravery". Make no mistake, I'm saying nothing less than this was just one more story of police murdering someone that will be swept under the rug. I give those police zero benefit of doubt, they will absolutely get away with it, and it will happen again.

They didn't "let" him fall, they caused it.

The only victim of murder here is the person he killed... The only way 'you could cause' someone to fall is to push them, which the police didn't do - however he did make the choice to leap, when his other choice was to lay down and be arrested.

I'd like to try an experiment if you're down for it some day. Nothing lethal of course, but I'd love to plant a couple sets of taser prongs in your back (or mine) (or both), under a controlled environment, and do an analysis of how much bodily control you have while being fed 50K volts from both of them. We could do simple things, like, raise your arm. Speak. Blink.
And see how many you successfully complete. Then we can determine whether or not this man was able to "leap" off that cliff or had a "choice" in anything at that point.

life in prison or jump and start over...

I woulda jumped.


Sabby:)

To be certified with a taser, you have been hit with one. Same with pepper spray, sand bags, rubber bullets and tear gas - I'm certified in them all and more.

As we can see from the Video, this person could move with several tasers in him, he moved without issue. It's not an uncommon thing, people even get up and run, scream stop... all types of shit.

Thanks for that, looks like Fox News leaked it. :1orglaugh

If it's so common then why do the police still use tasers? Seems if it's that common, that particular tool would be pretty useless in law enforcement. My guess is they keep them around to avoid video footage of them blowing his brains out instead or simply giving him a good push.

Because tasers work the best... and work in almost all situations, but not all. We have no perfect solution.

I thought you just said it's common for people to completely resist tasers?
How can that be common, and still "work in almost all situations, but not all." ?

Sounds like police propaganda straight out the good 'ol boy handbook to me.

I was waiting for that :1orglaugh:1orglaugh

Wow, I am WAY too tired to respond to what was said above. Whew! The Never-Ending Argument.
But I WILL say this Doc - no offense to cops who are, like you said, trying to do the right thing and working their asses off in a tough job. Again, a New Yorker beholden to cops on 9/11 (and many other days). So I DO see both sides. But what we're discussing, I think, is that percentage of cops who just do what we saw in the vid. Darts, rubber bullets, pepper spray, a fucking NET for Jesus sake would've worked. they had HOURS.

This isn't a split-second "is that a gun or a keychain" type situation, which can be forgivien under certain circumstances. No, HOURS went by and the cops finally just said "fuck it" and killed the dude. Did they intend to? Why not tazer him HOURS before, before he got to the ledge?

Again, no way to defend THESE COPS. Not ALL cops - THESE cops. Bad, bad coppies, BAD coppies!