I think you're agreeing with me... Shooting him in the leg is deadly force, shooting him is the key. It's not deadly force because you kill them, it's deadly force because a deadly type of force was used to diffuse the situation.

I understand why they didn't shoot him at the cliff - even though it should have been authorized to do so. However if they missed or the round went through, it could hit a house or person below them.

Once he proceeded to back up to the edge of the cliff and look like he was going down the cliff, the cops did what they could to stop him, which didn't work. If they would have only used deadly force sooner, he would probably be alive.

I'm not really sure what alternative solution you think the cops should have taken.

I'm about as calm as I can get... :thumbsup

Btw.. I was a Cop/Mp and no longer am for more than one reason, but one being the hypocritical double standard that most "not all" cops have. I'm all up for bashing.... But for every bad dirty cop, you have a straight shooter doing everything he can by the books and breaking no laws himself - 100% dedicated to the job. It's not a one way door as many in this thread like to paint.

I like the idea Peabody mentioned about using a tranq dart. Why not? If they'd hit him with a tranq in the first hour, they could have saved themselves the other 7 hours and no one would have died. Anything wrong with that scenario?

When your wanted for murder anyway what else is there to do?

Sabby:)

What a horrible shot, why can't the show the shot with that other camera that didn't have the tree blocking it.

I'm sure his family will be suing.

You make it sound like they knew the guy was going to fall off a cliff. How about this idea? Wait the guy out like 99% of them end up and cuff the guy..... not to toss out any crazy ideas.

I would assume we don't have tranq darts, or they aren't safe to shoot humans with, maybe nobody is trained on them. But probably no law that authorized the use of them would be my guess.

Why didn't they use rubber bullets, sand bags, pepper spray, flash bangs? They have like 100 things they 'could have done' but those are authorized for use under different situations.

I wonder why it "sounds" like that. :1orglaugh

If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it ain't an eggplant.

Are you now saying the cops knew he would fall off the cliff so they let him?

Hell no. I'm saying what I've been saying all along. The police murdered him, made it look semi-accidental, and will be commended for their "bravery". Make no mistake, I'm saying nothing less than this was just one more story of police murdering someone that will be swept under the rug. I give those police zero benefit of doubt, they will absolutely get away with it, and it will happen again.

They didn't "let" him fall, they caused it.

The only victim of murder here is the person he killed... The only way 'you could cause' someone to fall is to push them, which the police didn't do - however he did make the choice to leap, when his other choice was to lay down and be arrested.

I'd like to try an experiment if you're down for it some day. Nothing lethal of course, but I'd love to plant a couple sets of taser prongs in your back (or mine) (or both), under a controlled environment, and do an analysis of how much bodily control you have while being fed 50K volts from both of them. We could do simple things, like, raise your arm. Speak. Blink.
And see how many you successfully complete. Then we can determine whether or not this man was able to "leap" off that cliff or had a "choice" in anything at that point.

life in prison or jump and start over...

I woulda jumped.


Sabby:)

To be certified with a taser, you have been hit with one. Same with pepper spray, sand bags, rubber bullets and tear gas - I'm certified in them all and more.

As we can see from the Video, this person could move with several tasers in him, he moved without issue. It's not an uncommon thing, people even get up and run, scream stop... all types of shit.

Thanks for that, looks like Fox News leaked it. :1orglaugh

If it's so common then why do the police still use tasers? Seems if it's that common, that particular tool would be pretty useless in law enforcement. My guess is they keep them around to avoid video footage of them blowing his brains out instead or simply giving him a good push.

Because tasers work the best... and work in almost all situations, but not all. We have no perfect solution.

I thought you just said it's common for people to completely resist tasers?
How can that be common, and still "work in almost all situations, but not all." ?

Sounds like police propaganda straight out the good 'ol boy handbook to me.

I was waiting for that :1orglaugh:1orglaugh

Wow, I am WAY too tired to respond to what was said above. Whew! The Never-Ending Argument.
But I WILL say this Doc - no offense to cops who are, like you said, trying to do the right thing and working their asses off in a tough job. Again, a New Yorker beholden to cops on 9/11 (and many other days). So I DO see both sides. But what we're discussing, I think, is that percentage of cops who just do what we saw in the vid. Darts, rubber bullets, pepper spray, a fucking NET for Jesus sake would've worked. they had HOURS.

This isn't a split-second "is that a gun or a keychain" type situation, which can be forgivien under certain circumstances. No, HOURS went by and the cops finally just said "fuck it" and killed the dude. Did they intend to? Why not tazer him HOURS before, before he got to the ledge?

Again, no way to defend THESE COPS. Not ALL cops - THESE cops. Bad, bad coppies, BAD coppies!

If you line up 100 people and taser them, almost all will drop to the ground... a couple, a few, maybe none will be able to remain standing, most can move. For example, I can move rather easily - I just can't open my hands. If I had a gun in my hand and you tasered me, I would pull the trigger.

The taser also isn't always on, it's a trigger.. they shoot you, which hurts. They then juice you and you freeze up, they give you instructions and they let off... If you don't obey, they juice it again. It's the freeze up that doesn't happen on everyone.

Everyone will register the pain, some people deal with pain differently than others.

Pepper spray is for close contact, hitting him at that distance he would have ran off the cliff or risk hitting everyone with blow back. Rubber bullets/bags work for crowds. Flash bangs suck outside. Gun fire could have missed or went through him and hit people/houses below.

What they did was standard procedure. My only suggestion was they should have shot his ass before he had a chance to leap/slip off that cliff - Not really giving a crap about the people below. They could have shot his hip bone, shattering it, maybe killing him but bullets almost never go through that bone.

I can subscribe to this as well. I submit that all cops are not sadistic, ego-maniacal, trigger-happy murderers. There, that puts me on the record. But in the name of self-preservation, I personally choose not to trust a fucking one of them with anything more than checking parking meters. And it should be pointed out and publicly discussed when police in this country cross the line from "officer" to "criminal". Every time. All of our rights are on the line when shit like this is viewed as perfectly acceptable behavior.

Personally, I don't think they did anything wrong in the video and see nothing to blame the cops about. A commanding officer would have been barking orders. Someone would have been trying to talk him down, which almost always works.

A huge net might have worked, if we had one and a way to shoot it, or if that bastard Spiderman would ever do his job.

Spidey for Police Chief!

I'm confused by this thread also. I've watched the video over and over and it clearly looks like he pushes himself off the cliff after being hit. The cops try to move in to grab him but he is still pointing the sword at them. Whatever...

All they really needed was a cowboy to lasso his ass ;)