Of course they have. I assumed it was rhetorical, since I don't know of any country, group or issue which I don't have at least one reservation about.



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Actually, I think I'm addressing a salient point. If the Israelis were simply gunning down innocent aid workers that were just standing around peacefully, (as people here wish to portray this incident), then they would have done so on all 6 ships, would they not?


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Can we hear one please.

If and why.
They took on a largest one.
They did. None of the boats were able to go thru.
Or you think the other 5 just turned around because they felt like it?

the funny thing is nobody has portrayed it as you suggest except yourself.

What we all understand and you seem to be missing is that murder is bad , and we generally try to avoid murder not instigate it.

If you jump into a pack of lions , you will likely have to defend yourself. A smarter person would not jump into the pack of lions to begin with. lions generally want nothing to do with humans .

if it makes you feel better to believe that then feel free, you and i both know you are full of shit.


i'm pretty sure we have figured out you support murder by now
they had no right to stop them stopping them violated the law.
great analogy i am glad you used it. Any smart person would realise the lady in the car with her child was not intending to run over a cop, more than likely she thought she was being robbed. Yet another situation you feel comfortable with killing someone that is basically unarmed for comitting a crime that doesn't really affect us.
you mean the one israel breaks all the time ?
lol the israeli navy is not law enforcement, keep dreaming.

we understand you like the killing of gentiles, regular people try to avoid killing not instigate it. good for you for supporting murder though , i'm sure it will do you well through life.

[QUOTE=sperbonzo;17232772]I would LOVE to see what would happen to people on board a ship if the Turkish Navy came on board to inspect them and they attacked the sailors with knives and iron pipes....

From what I've seen of the well-earned pride of the Turkish Navy, (a darn good Navy, by the way), they would be some shootin' sailors and I wouldn't blame them!




.[/QUOTEj




Thank You, i know our army is good, but i don't think bunch of professional commandos would be desperate as this against a group of civilians with iron pipes and knives :2 cents:

2 that jump to mind are The Lavon Affair, and the 1982 Lebanon war.



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What happened on the ships is the least of Israel's recent violations of international law.

So international law no longer applies and the host country can never ever stop boats off our coast? The drug dealers would love that shit.

You say she was unarmed, I saw she was driving a two thousand pound guided missile that she intentionally used to assault a law enforcement officer investigating a crime. He had the right to defend himself.

You say they were "innocent civilians" and "aid workers" and I say there were twenty young men beating the crap out of people with lead pipes. Not sure what planet you live on, but if twenty men with lead pipes start beating the shit out of people at the local mall someone is going to shot.

I never said Israel is innocent. They aren't. But they do have the legal right to stop any ship off their coast, just like any other country has.

Why not?

In the United States, the US Navy is not tasked with enforcing US law and is in fact restricted from it. However, this is one of the reasons we have the Coast Guard. At the same time, all US Navy warships patrolling the US coast has a number of Coast Guard members on board just for their very reason.

I don't know what the laws are with Israel and it's maritime law enforcement.


At the end of the, it's international law for any host country to be able to stop any ship off it's coast for any reason. Everyone is so stunned that this is allowed to happen but it's simple law enforcement.

I will repost this since you refuse to acknowledge it.

You can board and inspect ANY ship within those 200 miles... Just because, when challenged, that ship SAYS that all they have is aid, doesn't matter. They don't have to take the captains word for it. I have posted the law... look it up yourself.

Every time the coast guard boards a large vessel, they are wearing bullet proof vests, carrying M16s, and they are covered by automatic 50cal machine guns from the zodiac, as well as 20mm cannon and a sometimes a 5inch gun from the cutter. and YES, THIS HAPPENS EVERY DAY. You obviously don't have the slightest idea what you are talking about. I suggest you call a coast guard station and ask them if what I'm telling you is true.

Stop twisting the facts.... the people on that ship were not unarmed, and they attacked the boarding crew. If you do that to the US coast guard, you will be shot dead. In fact, if you fail to stop your vessel when hailed and told to do so, they will fire on your ship.

Stop making stupid statements and simply call a coast guard station and ASK THEM


jeeez!.

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No shit?
Are you telling me that planting bombs is not good?

besides israel quoting iternational law when they are in possesion of weapons of mass destruction and illegal nuclear weapons is quite a laugh.

yes actually it does. because it is against the law to prevent people from getting aid , especially when doing it to punish a leadership. i realise israel like to pick and choose the international laws it decides to follow but sorry that's not how the game is played. You cant ignore laws when they apply to you and enforce laws when they apply to non-jews.

I posted the law go read it. israel did not let the ships continue thus it was an illegal action.



if it happens every day you should be able to provide me with ANY ONE coast guard armed boarding in international waters of an aid ship. Please provide some facts like i have to bolster your fairy tale .

the funny thing about laws is there are more than 1.

It is against the law to murder , it is lawfull to kill in self defense. Sometimes 1 law trumps another.

In this situation it may be lawful under certain conditions for a ship to be armed boarded, it is not lawfull to stop humanitarian aid.



common sense would say not to drive in front of the car, not murder for murders sake.


common sense would say , stay away from the men with bats NOT let's go shoot them.

Not sure what planet you live on, but if twenty men with lead pipes start beating the shit out of 20 guys shootting them in the face with paintballs from helicopters we would all be smoking way too much weed because these things don't happen in civilized countries for a reason.
ding ding, ever wonder why ?

ding ding ever wonder why..
cept for the whole murdering of nine people part .

There's an idiot that doesn't know how to separate facts and form a logical conclusion.:winkwink:

Israel thought it was good a few years ago when they honored the guys as heroes.

Noone in congress said a word lol. We're fucked.

http://www.ynetnews.com/Ext/Comp/Art...5838,00.html#n

When is the western world going to WAKE THE FUCK UP and realize Israel is the real threat to the western way of living and not the muslim world. it is just insane to me how brainwashed people are by the media in the western world. they somehow believe media is not filtered here and we get the "real" info.

So what was the point of you asking me if I had ever disapproved of Israel, and to name something that I did not approve of? Did you have a point? I also named the 1982 Lebanon war... did you want to comment on that? The point of my answer was two examples of many things that I did not approve of Israel doing....


.... and BTW, that same condition applies to my view of EVERY SINGLE COUNTRY IN THE HISTORY OF THIS PLANET.


In fact, I would be interested to hear if you think that you can name ANY COUNTRY ON THE PLANET that has not committed an atrocity of some kind at some time in their history.


(This isn't really a fair question, since I'm quite passionate about history and I'm already pretty sure that there isn't one)...but please.... go ahead and try. I would be fascinated to hear your choices.



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Actually Atlantis, I have no doubt that if a Pro-Kurdish "aid convoy" refused to stop to be inspected by the Turkish navy, and then attacked the boarding party with knives and pipes... The Turkish Navy would use force.

Do YOU doubt that? Do you think that the Turkish Navy would allow a Pro-Kurdish convoy through without boarding and inspection, simply on their word that it was only aid?


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Seems like the Israelis did not manage to confiscate all footage of the attack on the Mavi Marmara

http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=12429821



Gaza flotilla attack: activist releases new footageDocumentary maker Iara Lee smuggles out video despite Israeli attempt to confiscate all recordings
(31)Tweet this (5)Haroon Siddique guardian.co.uk, Friday 11 June 2010 17.33 BST Article historyIsraeli Attack on the Mavi Marmara, May 31st 2010 // 15 min. from Cultures of Resistance on Vimeo. Warning: contains graphic scenes

New footage has emerged of the Israeli assault on a convoy of aid ships headed to Gaza in which nine activists were killed.

The high-quality film was reportedly recorded by New York-based documentary maker Iara Lee aboard the Mavi Marmara, the Turkish ship that bore the brunt of the Israeli attacks.

Israel attempted to confiscate all footage recorded by participants in the Gaza Freedom flotilla ? including taking away mobile phones ? but Lee managed to smuggle one hour of video out of the country by hiding it in her underwear, it was reported.

The 15 minutes of film posted online shows the moments leading up to and during the Israeli commandos' assault on the Mavi Marmara.

At one stage, the captain of the boat can be heard over the public address system saying: "Do not show resistance ? They are using live ammunition ? Be calm, be very calm." Gunshots can be heard.

The film includes footage of an Israeli inflatable boat carrying commandos, and troops can be seen rappelling from a helicopter on to the Mavi Marmara. While they do so, two men on the Marmara can be seen using catapults aimed at the soldiers, who are high above them, although the projectiles they are firing cannot be ascertained.

At one point, a passenger on the boat says to the camera: "[The activists] hold two soldiers down here, bleeding and wounded." One soldier can be seen being carried down the stairs of the vessel. In an interview with Democracy Now, Lee said the soldiers were injured in the commotion. "They got treatment by our passengers," she said.

A number of passengers are shown in the video receiving medical treatment for wounds, including one man being resuscitated. He does not appear to respond. At the end of the footage a woman can be heard shouting: "We have no guns here, we are civilians taking care of injured people. Don't use violence, we need help."

Lee described the attack as terrifying. "[The Israelis] came to kill," she said. "They wanted to take over the ship."

More than 600 pro-Palestinian activists were detained by Israel in the 31 May raids on the aid convoy. There was global condemnation of the assault but Israel claimed its troops acted in self-defence after coming under attack from members of an "extremist" Turkish group.

It announced on Monday it would conduct an internal investigation into the incident, defying pressure for a thorough international inquiry.

The UN special rapporteur on extrajudicial executions said any inquiry set up by Israel should include "all video and other records of the incident, including those confiscated from civilians". Philip Alston said it must be able to interview all key witnesses, including military personnel.

"Any inquiry set up by Israel to investigate the Gaza flotilla incident must be given a genuine capacity to find the facts. Without that capacity an inquiry will simply not be considered credible."

Alston said the inquiry must be independent of government, have full legal authority to investigate and make its final report open to the public

Jesus fucking christ, get it through your head - they legally had the right the stop, board, and search the ship. There is no exception. It doesn't matter if they were carrying aid or dildos.

They legally stopped the ship, was attacked, and defended themselves. The ship violated international law by refusing to stop, and the ship violated international law by refusing to be boarded. At this point, it's a local law enforcement issue. It's pretty fucking simple - you attack any form of law enforcement, and they have the right to self defense. Plain and simple.

They legally attempted to stop the ship, they legally boarded the ship, and legally defended themselves when attacked.

FACT: Israel has illegal nuclear weapons and weapons of mass destruction.
CONCLUSION: Israel has no right to enforce international law while at the same time breaking the biggest international laws themselves.

I realise you are not smart enough to come to this conclusion without some help from someone educated.

no they didnt and you havent shown one shred of evidence to support your fantasy.

unless you follow laws of course , the law says you cannot interfere with an aid ship , they did , making it an illegal boarding
israel says legal, racists say it's legal , the rest of the world and international law says ILLEGAL.
only if by legal you mean completely illegal and against the geneva convention.:thumbsup

exactly, the fact they took all mobile phones and tried to destory all evidence says alot.

I don't understand why every time the Mahmoud Ahmadinejad the president of Iran does a speech and yells "death to Israel" he also yells "death to America"

why does america have anything to do with it?

That was a joke, right?