BTW...I don't know you and would have no idea what grade level you attended. It was a question that you apparently chose to take offense to.

Agreed. But I think that really pertains to being invaded by a foreign country doesn't it? I'm not so sure we should expand that to include fruit pickers from crossing over like they always have should we?
As for the drug cartels...even if we stop the Mexican ones...another will take their place. The American people like to get high. The government should stop trying to control our personal lives.

If that is what you think, then we can't have a discussion. I don't care to try and prove you wrong. And you won't believe it anyway.

You may want to google up some numbers on what the "War On Drugs" actually costs though. As for what immigrants use in "services"...that is a hot debate. I know what I saw with the thousands of orange pickers that my family hires. They don't use "services" but they damn sure paid taxes.
I don't have any reliable numbers on what you are implying...and you don't either. You only have numbers that you are reading from sources that are biased. There are no factual numbers on how many illegal iimmigrants used a govt. handout. My educated guess from having a lot of experience with them would be...they use a lot less than legal U.S. citizens percentage wise. But I'm sure you don't believe that. So be it.

I specifically stated "the war on drugs along the border" and according to every state that has a major illegal immigrant problem...specifically California...Arizona...New Mexico...and Texas...the cost in services provided to illegal immigrants is a tremendous drain on the State Treasurys. There are also many other states that complain of the same thing. Maybe they are lying and it is as you say.

Obama makes Bush look like a saint. Obama is truely an idiot!

Bullshit. That border was wide open since the beginning of our country. Mexican AND USA citizens were crossing back and forth unimpeded until very recently.

I can't believe that YOU believe that some dirt poor Mexican peasant who lives within 5 miles of the border would write Washington D.C. 100 years ago and petition for a "seasonal work visa" which was then issued by the magic Visa fairy along the border.

Or that anybody 100 years ago who lived and worked along the border gave two shits about what was said or done in Washington D.C.? Or do you think they jumped on the internet or turned on the t.v. to find out those kinds of things back in the 1800's?

Come on man, use some common sense. Not only were the real people who live in that part of the world unaware of anything that Washington D.C. might be doing back then...they also could have cared less if they did know.

Damn, it's shocking to see so many people with so much trust in the federal govt.
Very un-American if you ask me.

Or maybe they are telling the truth.

Or maybe, just maybe they are politicians trying to keep their jobs by exaggerating things. And this whole issue keeps the people's minds off of the fact that nobody has a job and that those politicians are living high on the hog.

I don't know. And neither do you.

But I would ask...what has changed in the last 50 years? There have ALWAY been Mexicans in Texas. They have always done whatever it is they do.

But now? They are killing people in drug wars. THAT is the difference.

Anyone reading..

It's truely UNSAFE out here, I live outside of Phx. and we simply don't
go to those areas anymore near or around mexico.

Alot of my friends out here will not travel to a local hot-spot in Mexico known as Rocky Point. It's about 60 mi. of a 2 lane road with 100% nothing between. Alot of fake checkpoints are being reported to harrass Arizonans.

2 weeks ago, the local police chief in Mexico and his bodyguard were ambushed and nearly shot to death in a attack rumored to be by drug smugglers.

The risk isn't worth it, it sucks. My friend owns a bad ass penthouse on the beach!

I own a nice timeshare on the beach in Cabo. Its more of the borders with the major issues.

Wasn't he supposed to be in Phoenix yesterday, but instead sent one of his worthless representatives?

From my understanding no one even went to the border to take a look....good way to see if there is any problem or what needed to be done, typical fucking politicians.

And then oslami offers to send 1000 troops and spread them between Cali to Texas....along the entire border states, but the catch is that they will be there for support and not to do any actual patrolling or guarding the border and they will only be there for a year.....like that is going to do any fucking good.
Oh, wait, they want to finish up 222 miles of fence which still does not finish the fence.

I say we let that dirt bag oslami and his cronies sue us, then we can file against the feds and their worthless politicians for not doing the job they are paid to do.

Personally, I am happy she called his goat sucking ass out. He is turning a blind eye to away from the problem and the problem is not going to fix itself so he might as well pull his head out of Pelosi?s cunt and start dealing with the issues.
And Immigration reform is not going to work for us in Arizona, so he may want to come up with a better idea?.. like enforcing the fucking law that has been in place forever.

Jesus Christ! lol
:1orglaugh

I don't know how many Mexicans traveled across the border during the dustbowl & Great Depression years. I'm sure many did to pick crops in California but from everything I've read...legal American citizens were swarming there too and working for pennies a day.

What does that have to do with the fact that nobody gave a shit about immigrants walking across the border from Mexico since the beginning of our country?

I don't know what the point is you're making. My point is that it is SUDDENLY all over the news. SUDDENLY we need a wall. SUDDENLY we need troops.

The only thing that changed is that drug cartels are killing people. BILLIONS of dollars are at stake. That's my point. What's yours?

what's that shit have to do with fixing the problem? you sound crazy :2 cents:

As a point of fact, there was no border between Arizona and Mexico 200 years ago... because Arizona has only been in existence as a state for 98 years.

Just thought I'd throw that out there.

Yep! Things have got real bad and no one will understand it if they don't live here and see what the influx of illegal immigrants have done to the system and the city.

You wouldn't get me into Rocky Point for all the tea in China, but then again, I wouldn't go there either way. We have friends that have a nice condo on the beach in Las Conchas and they are not planning on returning any time soon or at least that is what they are stating at this point.
Personally I could care less who came here for years and no one said anything. That just shows how long the feds have turned a blind eye to this situation and now it has come full circle to bite them in the ass.
American citizens across many states have had enough and the free lunch is over for the moochers that drain the system.

Normally, immigration becomes a hot political issue during a recession. Is the recent debate about immigration just part of this pattern or does it signal a fundamental shift?

:1orglaugh we weren't alive 98 years ago.

there are nation guard troops already here? The ones that Bush sent are gone, what troops are you talking about?

I just brought up that because it's a joke that we make people take off their shoes to get on a plane and yet let people walk into the country

If we are being 100% fair, Bush talked about "securing our borders" right after 9/11. He even sent Colin Powell out to all the news stations explaining out border security was something we needed because 10,000 illegals come into this country every day and any one of them could be a terrorist.

So with about 5 1/2 years where he and the republicans held all three houses, he talked and did nothing. So it isn't 100% fair to just lay all the blame on Obama for not getting this done.

Obama has to take some heat because he is legally challenging the Arizona law yet seems to have no policy of his own which seems kind of hypocritical, but border security is not solely his fault.

Not to go all Clinton on you.... but that depends on how you define "we." :winkwink:

That sounds about right!
Bush should have locked this country down the day after 9-11, but he didn't. The thing I find funny is all these politicians talk about homeland security and how much safer we are which is a crock of crap. I have been saying this for years "there is no homeland security". And there will be no homeland security until we get control of our borders.

On the other hand, it is now oslami's duty to deal with the issue and it appears he is going to do noting, like his predecessors did.

the head of homeland is our ex-bull dike governor. :helpme

The state of AZ is in a world of financial hurt and the only way they could even get close to possibly balancing the budget was to increase taxes, layoff state employees and now they are going to be laying off even more employees and will start outsourcing the work.

Sounds like it is time for some of these state politicians to take a pay cut, but that will never happen. I find it hard to believe that they want everyone to give something up, but the stinking politicians are not willing to take a pay cut or give anything up.

Truly a sad state of affairs :Oh crap

Oh, don't get me started on the bitch.
I never could stand her ass. She will be the downfall of all border security, she did not do anything when she was in office in AZ and she is doing nothing now....what a waste of blubber :Oh crap

State legislators typically don't make all that much money. State employees on the other hand, do... depending on job of course.

Presidential material right there! :thumbsup

I have no idea what they make, but my buddy that works for the city tells me that they are all upside down as far as directors, managers and such. He said most of them are near the 6 figure range for income, so I figure they could stand to lose a few bucks.

If we as citizens have to give up then they should have also have to give up something, but as I said, that is not going to happen.

And this state needs to stop spending money on fucking artwork or pretty freeways. Basically they need to have the credit card shut off for quite a while.

I don't know if I would go that far, but at least she has the balls the other male politicians are lacking ;)

Yeh, city, state, county, federal employees... I agree. Some states are cutting them back now. Not like the private sector obviously, but cutting back.

You said the state politicians should take a pay cut... I was just saying the state legislator typically doesn't make that much money. :-) They are actually in a kind of weird situation. They only work half of the year, so they need a flexible job or they need to be self-employed. Very strange actually... I don't know that the current system of paying a state legislator half of a salary can really bring out the best candidates. Who knows... something to consider doing better times I suppose.

We have 8,000 people serving in the AZ national guard, not all are active and not all are at the border that are active, but she damn sure has the power to make them all active and at the border, legally.

The problem is she and her crew of shit stains ran the state in the ground and ignored the illegal immigration problem for so long, that now we're like 40 billion in the hole, so bad our rest stops can't even stay open. She wants Obama to pay for it though....that's the "only" issue she has - and it allows her to turn it into politics.

If it was really about security, border security, whatever.... she would fire up those troops herself and pay for them. If it's "that" bad.... it's jacked up, yes.. more/better security is needed - and she is the key to making it happen and proving it works.

Bush did kind of do something right when he sent the 6k troops here, however they didn't go to the border. They were stand-ins for our BP and immigration agents, to build more staff, train more, better, etc. We increased 40% in BP agents alone to just over 16,000 - the problem today is we can't find'em as fast as we need them.

I think the shoe crap is ridiculous, but history wise... the southern border hasn't produced a problem with terrorists and planes have, and so has the northern border.

http://www.stateline.org/live/detail...ntentId=179978

Looks like Arizona pays around $22,000 a year. California pays nicely.

well considering the only 'problem' is right-wing politicians exploiting the racist emotions of our less educated segment of society, I'd say it's very relevant. It won't be long til it reaches a krystalnacht-like fever pitch.

Bullshit tea-party pandering at it's most blatant, must suck to be so easily distracted and misled.

Why not just put a dome over Arizona???

http://blippitt.com/wp-content/uploa...vie-dome-1.png

Yeah, I realized that you had mentioned legislators after I hit submit, sorry about that! They don't have to take half pay cut, but just something that will help to budget during these hard times. I don't think it is right that we have to always bail out the irresponsible city, state and federal persons that abuse the system with reckless spending.

Hell my buddies? boss makes s100K a year and he is never around. He has told me others have seen him at his house, the bar and other places when he should be at work. The only way to get in touch with him is by phone.

I am sure he will be gone because there are a few that have documented this and filed complaints. He also mentioned that this guy is not the only one, so who knows what is going to happen, but it is time for some big changes.

Wow! I did not know this. If you ad up the time they work VS the salary, they are making some good wages. I wonder if they have some part time job the rest of the year?

Don't give them any ideas. We have enough domes that taxpayers have had to pay for, we don't need anymore domes or taxes ;)

From a conservative..I agree with you on this. Legalize drugs or at least marijuana and a lot of these border problems will go away. Along with that we won't need as many prisons as we have. A few common sense approaches and this would go a long way in helping the economy. I could almost forgive Obama's bullshit healthcare reform if he took some real steps in fixing things. And legalizing pot would go a long way in doing that.

Are you saying we would be shitting gold bricks if McCain and Palin were runnin' shit?

this is a national problem. there are 20 states that will adopt the law in 2011.

I am sure the list will be growing once others see we are proceed forward with the law ;)

I heard on the news that other states that feel our law is just are sending in money for the upcoming law suit that oslami is threatening us with.

Hope fully we will have a shot at suing the pants off of the feds for not doing their job by upholding the laws of this nation.

house busted in west phoenix 51 illegals inside. :disgust then there was and illegal pulled over with $250,000 and large amount of drugs and they searched his house. and found more money and drugs and guns. :helpme

I don't want that guy busted...I want to party with him! :1orglaugh

Saw that on the news, crazy stuff always going on.

man hanging with him may get you killed. with that kind of cash he isnt a joke connected to some organization.

atleast the drive-byes are not like in the 90's that was some crazy shit.

There's a reason why the US is full of illegal aliens. Getting into the united states to live and work is probably one of the most difficult things to do. Even as a Canadian, if I wanted to live and work there, the amount of hoops I'd have to jump through would be absolutely mind boggling.

Enter the illegal aliens, who see this big prosperous place with work and a higher quality of life. They've got nothing in their pocket in their home country, which leaves them with no hope to better their lives. Unfortinutely for the USA, they are connected to a country of poor, uneducated people who all desperately want to improve their quality of life (and who can blame them?)

There's only one way to stop illegal immigration into the United States. The US has to become a thirld world country. Bam, suddenly Mexican's have better opportunity in their own country. So long as the US represents wealth and prosperity, poor people with no chance at all will continue to sneak in. Because they sure as hell can't get in legally. They don't have the education, the money, or the ability to achieve those things. It's a giant, vicious circle that will never end.

So you're making excuses for the person you voted for?


OK, I just read this

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...tcTDgD9GL5KG00

The system became so overrun with pot busts, for example, that until recently federal prosecutors in Arizona generally declined to press charges against marijuana smugglers caught with less than 500 pounds.


500 pounds?

Wow! I didn't even consider those ramifications!
Hey I have a crazy idea: How about we let GROWN UPS alone that want to smoke a fucking plant! :1orglaugh

Wouldn't that be something? Actual freedom? Everybody NOT in jail. The police state NOT all over our ass? Violence on the border NOT happening?

EDIT: Oh yeah. I almost forgot: One Hundred American Versions Of The Iron Curtain

My brother and I had this conversation over the weekend. He doesn't see the point in legalizing pot because every job out there drug tests. I told him that not every job does, and those that do test do so when they hire you and never again. He works construction and if there is an accident on the site they drug test everyone on site and you get fired if you have drugs in your system.

I told him that nothing would change if it was legal. Those jobs that test still will. Those who work jobs were they could get fired if they smoke will have to decide for themselves if they want to take that chance. It should be up to individuals to take responsibility for themselves. The government is not responsible for protecting me from me, I should be allowed to choose for myself how I want to live.

Then put a bigger dome over the US, seems you guys are pretty much afraid of everything, including your own President :upsidedow

No one is afraid of oslami, there are allot of us that just don't care for him. You sure are hooked on domes today.....:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

On another note, you don't even live in the US and are hardly abreast of the situation here so I doubt you have any idea of what the states are going through :2 cents:

Just saying ;)

Don't need to be in the US when GFY brings the US to us :upsidedow (just being sarcastic Nikki)

afraid what are you talking about?