He talked about reform during his campaign, 2 years ago, still nothing, you think this is going to be different?

What an astonishingly stupid statement. At least you are open about your belief that nation states have no right to control their borders. Unfortunately for you only about 10-15% of the US population (the radical internationalist left) would agree with you........ which is why all the lies and obfuscations are required by politicians to keep the borders open.

If all of the "open border" Marxists were as upfront about their desire to destroy national boundaries as you??.. then there would not even be a debate........ the border fence would have been built a long time ago. Unfortunately most of them keep their real agenda hidden to try and obtain their long term goals through dishonesty and propaganda about "racism". You honesty is refreshing even if your ideas are insane.

He...just as every President...has very little domestic powers. The Congress is in control of domestic power and the President has only the "bully pulpit/talk" to convince Congress to legislate immigration reform or any type of reform...and the Republicans do not want to see a Democrat President and Democratic congress succeed at anything.

Yeah...so astonishingly stupid.

And how "astonishingly STUPID" is it of you and everybody else to forget that there was NO problems on our borders for over two hundred years? But now the federal government is being BEGGED to put SOLDIERS on our borders.

You people are fucking communists and nazi's :1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

I don't trust the government. And if it weren't for the drug business being made so profitable by our government we would have no problems.

But hey...the world economy is destroyed at the moment. We are fighting two insane wars. We are occupying over 80 countries around the world.

So why not spend BILLIONS more on "protecting" the border from freakin' Mexico? Maybe they will raise the taxes of the few of us still making a little money to pay for this bullshit too.

OR, they could stop trying to tell the American people that they can't smoke a joint or snort a line. Doesn't cost any money for that. The violence stops. No need to build walls or send in the fucking Army.

Just stop trying to control everything and everybody. Problem solved.

But no, that is way too simple. And I'm sure you find it "astonishing" as well. :1orglaugh

You keep saying no problems on the borders for more than 200 years. Ever heard of the Mexican/American war...ever heard of the multiple raids by Mexican revolutionaries into the United States...ever heard of Patton leading a military force into Mexico...did you ever attend Highschool?

That's 524 on top of the ones already here... or 1.4 more national guard per border mile, not all of which is crossable.

Terrorism isn't why we need to secure that border... if that's the case, then the entire Canadian border needs to be secured. It has 1000's of miles of open range, no-check point, and is easy to walk across all over the place. Hell, every Port in our Country is more open than the southern border is.

The border needs to be secured because of illegal immigration and the drug/gun/gang wars spilling over the border. Not some fake, fear based, stories told by men that would scream bloody murder if the Gov setup camp in their back yards.

It needs to be secured...better than it is, but it damn sure doesn't need to be over ran with military personal.

No suh, we's don't has no "highschools" where I's come from.

And you are saying that a WAR between nations has anything to do with immigrants crossing that border freely for two hundred years to pick crops?

I won't fling an insult at you. I'll leave that childishness to you. But I will say again...there has been NO problems along the Mexican border for over 200 years...and now I will clarify it for those of you who don't grasp the topic: NO problems with immigrants crossing the border, NOT when two nations go to war.

Jesus...

I completely agree with you that the so called "War on Drugs" is a catastrophe and has destroyed Mexico and decimated personal freedoms in the US (paramilitary police forces, no-knock raids, random searches, unwarranted surveillance, etc.). It is the main reason I moved out of the US. Having said that..... the government has a legal and moral obligation to protect the border from foreign invaders. It is one of the few legitimate purposes of the federal government. A government that cannot control its own borders is not a legitimate government. A nation that cannot control its own borders is not a legitimate state.

To say that there has been "NO problems with immigrants crossing the border" is the problem. Do you not understand that the cost of the war on drugs along the border is insignificant to the cost of the services provided to the millions of illegal immigrants in our country?

I wonder how long it will be til the fine white aryan citizens of Arizona run thru the streets at night shattering windows?

BTW...I don't know you and would have no idea what grade level you attended. It was a question that you apparently chose to take offense to.

Agreed. But I think that really pertains to being invaded by a foreign country doesn't it? I'm not so sure we should expand that to include fruit pickers from crossing over like they always have should we?
As for the drug cartels...even if we stop the Mexican ones...another will take their place. The American people like to get high. The government should stop trying to control our personal lives.

If that is what you think, then we can't have a discussion. I don't care to try and prove you wrong. And you won't believe it anyway.

You may want to google up some numbers on what the "War On Drugs" actually costs though. As for what immigrants use in "services"...that is a hot debate. I know what I saw with the thousands of orange pickers that my family hires. They don't use "services" but they damn sure paid taxes.
I don't have any reliable numbers on what you are implying...and you don't either. You only have numbers that you are reading from sources that are biased. There are no factual numbers on how many illegal iimmigrants used a govt. handout. My educated guess from having a lot of experience with them would be...they use a lot less than legal U.S. citizens percentage wise. But I'm sure you don't believe that. So be it.

I specifically stated "the war on drugs along the border" and according to every state that has a major illegal immigrant problem...specifically California...Arizona...New Mexico...and Texas...the cost in services provided to illegal immigrants is a tremendous drain on the State Treasurys. There are also many other states that complain of the same thing. Maybe they are lying and it is as you say.

Obama makes Bush look like a saint. Obama is truely an idiot!

Bullshit. That border was wide open since the beginning of our country. Mexican AND USA citizens were crossing back and forth unimpeded until very recently.

I can't believe that YOU believe that some dirt poor Mexican peasant who lives within 5 miles of the border would write Washington D.C. 100 years ago and petition for a "seasonal work visa" which was then issued by the magic Visa fairy along the border.

Or that anybody 100 years ago who lived and worked along the border gave two shits about what was said or done in Washington D.C.? Or do you think they jumped on the internet or turned on the t.v. to find out those kinds of things back in the 1800's?

Come on man, use some common sense. Not only were the real people who live in that part of the world unaware of anything that Washington D.C. might be doing back then...they also could have cared less if they did know.

Damn, it's shocking to see so many people with so much trust in the federal govt.
Very un-American if you ask me.

Or maybe they are telling the truth.

Or maybe, just maybe they are politicians trying to keep their jobs by exaggerating things. And this whole issue keeps the people's minds off of the fact that nobody has a job and that those politicians are living high on the hog.

I don't know. And neither do you.

But I would ask...what has changed in the last 50 years? There have ALWAY been Mexicans in Texas. They have always done whatever it is they do.

But now? They are killing people in drug wars. THAT is the difference.

Anyone reading..

It's truely UNSAFE out here, I live outside of Phx. and we simply don't
go to those areas anymore near or around mexico.

Alot of my friends out here will not travel to a local hot-spot in Mexico known as Rocky Point. It's about 60 mi. of a 2 lane road with 100% nothing between. Alot of fake checkpoints are being reported to harrass Arizonans.

2 weeks ago, the local police chief in Mexico and his bodyguard were ambushed and nearly shot to death in a attack rumored to be by drug smugglers.

The risk isn't worth it, it sucks. My friend owns a bad ass penthouse on the beach!

I own a nice timeshare on the beach in Cabo. Its more of the borders with the major issues.

Wasn't he supposed to be in Phoenix yesterday, but instead sent one of his worthless representatives?

From my understanding no one even went to the border to take a look....good way to see if there is any problem or what needed to be done, typical fucking politicians.

And then oslami offers to send 1000 troops and spread them between Cali to Texas....along the entire border states, but the catch is that they will be there for support and not to do any actual patrolling or guarding the border and they will only be there for a year.....like that is going to do any fucking good.
Oh, wait, they want to finish up 222 miles of fence which still does not finish the fence.

I say we let that dirt bag oslami and his cronies sue us, then we can file against the feds and their worthless politicians for not doing the job they are paid to do.

Personally, I am happy she called his goat sucking ass out. He is turning a blind eye to away from the problem and the problem is not going to fix itself so he might as well pull his head out of Pelosi?s cunt and start dealing with the issues.
And Immigration reform is not going to work for us in Arizona, so he may want to come up with a better idea?.. like enforcing the fucking law that has been in place forever.

Jesus Christ! lol
:1orglaugh

I don't know how many Mexicans traveled across the border during the dustbowl & Great Depression years. I'm sure many did to pick crops in California but from everything I've read...legal American citizens were swarming there too and working for pennies a day.

What does that have to do with the fact that nobody gave a shit about immigrants walking across the border from Mexico since the beginning of our country?

I don't know what the point is you're making. My point is that it is SUDDENLY all over the news. SUDDENLY we need a wall. SUDDENLY we need troops.

The only thing that changed is that drug cartels are killing people. BILLIONS of dollars are at stake. That's my point. What's yours?

what's that shit have to do with fixing the problem? you sound crazy :2 cents:

As a point of fact, there was no border between Arizona and Mexico 200 years ago... because Arizona has only been in existence as a state for 98 years.

Just thought I'd throw that out there.

Yep! Things have got real bad and no one will understand it if they don't live here and see what the influx of illegal immigrants have done to the system and the city.

You wouldn't get me into Rocky Point for all the tea in China, but then again, I wouldn't go there either way. We have friends that have a nice condo on the beach in Las Conchas and they are not planning on returning any time soon or at least that is what they are stating at this point.
Personally I could care less who came here for years and no one said anything. That just shows how long the feds have turned a blind eye to this situation and now it has come full circle to bite them in the ass.
American citizens across many states have had enough and the free lunch is over for the moochers that drain the system.

Normally, immigration becomes a hot political issue during a recession. Is the recent debate about immigration just part of this pattern or does it signal a fundamental shift?

:1orglaugh we weren't alive 98 years ago.

there are nation guard troops already here? The ones that Bush sent are gone, what troops are you talking about?

I just brought up that because it's a joke that we make people take off their shoes to get on a plane and yet let people walk into the country

If we are being 100% fair, Bush talked about "securing our borders" right after 9/11. He even sent Colin Powell out to all the news stations explaining out border security was something we needed because 10,000 illegals come into this country every day and any one of them could be a terrorist.

So with about 5 1/2 years where he and the republicans held all three houses, he talked and did nothing. So it isn't 100% fair to just lay all the blame on Obama for not getting this done.

Obama has to take some heat because he is legally challenging the Arizona law yet seems to have no policy of his own which seems kind of hypocritical, but border security is not solely his fault.

Not to go all Clinton on you.... but that depends on how you define "we." :winkwink:

That sounds about right!
Bush should have locked this country down the day after 9-11, but he didn't. The thing I find funny is all these politicians talk about homeland security and how much safer we are which is a crock of crap. I have been saying this for years "there is no homeland security". And there will be no homeland security until we get control of our borders.

On the other hand, it is now oslami's duty to deal with the issue and it appears he is going to do noting, like his predecessors did.

the head of homeland is our ex-bull dike governor. :helpme

The state of AZ is in a world of financial hurt and the only way they could even get close to possibly balancing the budget was to increase taxes, layoff state employees and now they are going to be laying off even more employees and will start outsourcing the work.

Sounds like it is time for some of these state politicians to take a pay cut, but that will never happen. I find it hard to believe that they want everyone to give something up, but the stinking politicians are not willing to take a pay cut or give anything up.

Truly a sad state of affairs :Oh crap

Oh, don't get me started on the bitch.
I never could stand her ass. She will be the downfall of all border security, she did not do anything when she was in office in AZ and she is doing nothing now....what a waste of blubber :Oh crap

State legislators typically don't make all that much money. State employees on the other hand, do... depending on job of course.

Presidential material right there! :thumbsup

I have no idea what they make, but my buddy that works for the city tells me that they are all upside down as far as directors, managers and such. He said most of them are near the 6 figure range for income, so I figure they could stand to lose a few bucks.

If we as citizens have to give up then they should have also have to give up something, but as I said, that is not going to happen.

And this state needs to stop spending money on fucking artwork or pretty freeways. Basically they need to have the credit card shut off for quite a while.

I don't know if I would go that far, but at least she has the balls the other male politicians are lacking ;)

Yeh, city, state, county, federal employees... I agree. Some states are cutting them back now. Not like the private sector obviously, but cutting back.

You said the state politicians should take a pay cut... I was just saying the state legislator typically doesn't make that much money. :-) They are actually in a kind of weird situation. They only work half of the year, so they need a flexible job or they need to be self-employed. Very strange actually... I don't know that the current system of paying a state legislator half of a salary can really bring out the best candidates. Who knows... something to consider doing better times I suppose.

We have 8,000 people serving in the AZ national guard, not all are active and not all are at the border that are active, but she damn sure has the power to make them all active and at the border, legally.

The problem is she and her crew of shit stains ran the state in the ground and ignored the illegal immigration problem for so long, that now we're like 40 billion in the hole, so bad our rest stops can't even stay open. She wants Obama to pay for it though....that's the "only" issue she has - and it allows her to turn it into politics.

If it was really about security, border security, whatever.... she would fire up those troops herself and pay for them. If it's "that" bad.... it's jacked up, yes.. more/better security is needed - and she is the key to making it happen and proving it works.

Bush did kind of do something right when he sent the 6k troops here, however they didn't go to the border. They were stand-ins for our BP and immigration agents, to build more staff, train more, better, etc. We increased 40% in BP agents alone to just over 16,000 - the problem today is we can't find'em as fast as we need them.

I think the shoe crap is ridiculous, but history wise... the southern border hasn't produced a problem with terrorists and planes have, and so has the northern border.

http://www.stateline.org/live/detail...ntentId=179978

Looks like Arizona pays around $22,000 a year. California pays nicely.

well considering the only 'problem' is right-wing politicians exploiting the racist emotions of our less educated segment of society, I'd say it's very relevant. It won't be long til it reaches a krystalnacht-like fever pitch.

Bullshit tea-party pandering at it's most blatant, must suck to be so easily distracted and misled.

Why not just put a dome over Arizona???

http://blippitt.com/wp-content/uploa...vie-dome-1.png