It is fair to be angry at Obama for not dealing with the problem. To me the main reason for this is that he is taking on the Arizona law and saying it is bad when he hasn't personally put forth any kind of alternative.

That said, let me ask you one question. Did you harbor this kind of anger towards the president for not protecting the borders during the Bush years? Obama has been in office 1.5 years and hasn't solved the problem. Were you ripping Bush apart when he hadn't solved the problem after 8 years in office?

You should still be working construction, most likely. And not voting.

That's quite Stereotypical. So you are saying the majority are feeding off the system. Do you have stats to prove that or just a generalization because you are pissed off?

you and 12clicks must get on well!

The anger I have for Illegal aliens stems from about 20 years ago. So I've been pissed about this for a long time, not just during bush, this was the one thing that Reagan did that I didn't understand.
The answer is simple BTW, put up a fence, patrol it. Then we can deal with the illegal immigrants we have here, I'm ok with work programs that lead to citizenship, not ok with anchor babies

Grew up in LA, I grew up around latino families, I love the culture, hate the music, one of my favorite places to go to in LA is Alvera Street. I learned spanish in the 6th grade.
I just have a major problem with people from other countries taking advantage of our system, we have to pay for that. When my daughter was going to thru school, budgets got cut to pay for more school breakfasts and lunches. More text books were needed in other languages. A lot of the kids I saw going to my daughters school I would have questioned their immigration status. I saw this as a drain on the California school system.
Recently I saw my nephew move from a good California School to a great Penn. school, they figured out he had a learning disability that the California school missed. See they didn't have the lack of funding, they didn't have all the people living on the system.

Basically, if they want to become citizens, learn the language, get a job, don't commit any crimes, but if you're here to be a burden to the rest of us, Fuck you and stay where you are. Put up the fence and protect the US citizens above all else

I take it you're here just to piss on my Wheaties and not offer anything that even comes close to a rational or statistical debate?

Try GOOGLE, it's all the rage!

very funny :(

and the pack of morons grows by one

http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/immigr...caillegals.htm

In hosting America's largest population of illegal immigrants, California bears a huge cost to provide basic human services for this fast growing, low-income segment of its population. A new study from the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) examines the costs of education, health care and incarceration of illegal aliens, and concludes that the costs to Californians is $10.5 billion per year.

Among the key finding of the report are that the state's already struggling K-12 education system spends approximately $7.7 billion a year to school the children of illegal aliens who now constitute 15 percent of the student body. Another $1.4 billion of the taxpayers' money goes toward providing health care to illegal aliens and their families, the same amount that is spent incarcerating illegal aliens criminals.

I also voted to pass Prop 187 and it was thrown out by one judge.

"Nineteen ninety-four was the same year that California voters rebelled and overwhelmingly passed Proposition 187, which sought to limit liability for mass illegal immigration. Since then, state and local governments have blatantly ignored the wishes of the voters and continued to shell out publicly financed benefits on illegal aliens," said Stein. "Predictably, the costs of illegal immigration have grown geometrically, while the state has spiraled into a fiscal crisis that has brought it near bankruptcy.

The amount spent on illegal immigrants would cut California's budget deficit by more than half...if they did not have to spend the money on illegals.

But Robbie apparently does not think that services provided to illegals far exceeds the cost of the "war on drugs" along the border.

You did not answer this question that Kane asked.

"Were you ripping Bush apart when he hadn't solved the problem after 8 years in office?"

If my recollection is correct...an honest answer from you would have to be no...would it not?

I answered it, look again, been pissed for over 20 years, since Reagan, before prop 187, any more questions?

I have friends that gold mine in the high moutains in Northern California, you should hear about some of the shit they find that the illegal aliens leave behind when doing a giant grow farm or worse, meth lab, they just dump that shit in the streams.

The federal government will deploy 524 National Guard troops to the Arizona-Mexico border, just like that, just little

I can share your anger. The town I live has two grade schools. One of them teaches K-3rd grade in half spanish so that they can help the spanish speaking kids learn english. If I go to the urgent care medical center almost all of the people in the waiting room are Mexican and you know many of them are illegal and won't be paying their bill. And these are just a few examples of many.

Like you, I have no problem with individual people. I know a lot of Mexicans who work hard, are good people and that I really like and feel add something great to our society. But there are a ton that do as you say and sneak in, drop out an anchor baby and leech off the system.

For me this is part of the solution:
1. Change the law that states if you are born in the US you are a US citizen. This will get rid of the anchor babies.
2. build a wall. A big fucking wall.
3. Create an MOS in the military, or make guarding that wall/protecting the border part of a regular rotation through the military so we have a ton of people on that wall watching that ground and patrolling.
4. Figure out what to do with those who are here. If they are good people with skill/ability to work and add to society then we can work towards making them a citizen. If they are criminals/not interested in working/leeches, they gotta go.
5. Put rules/laws in place that lay hefty fines or severe punishment for those who knowingly hire illegals.

To me this will go a long ways towards curbing the problem.

Last summer a friend of mine took his son and one of his son's friends on a hike. They were way up this trail that rarely gets hiked because it is pretty far out of the way. they came across an small sleep camper/trailer that looked abandoned, but there were some old torn clothes and what looked like blood on the floor/ground. There was a ton of crap inside and it smelled bad. He called the cops when he got back into cellphone range and eventually they sent someone up to check it out. Turns out it was a meth lab. Good thing he didn't happen across it while they were there cooking.

"Were you ripping Bush apart when he hadn't solved the problem after 8 years in office?"

You may have been pissed for more than 20 years...but as I recall you were not ripping Bush over illegal immigration.

Thats about the way I would do it to, except I would have had military training in some of the rougher areas. I'm all for them working their way to citizenship.

quick question about part of the solution and #1
Did you mean to say
1. Change the law that states if you are born in the US you are not a US citizen. This will get rid of the anchor babies.

The reason I ask is what you posted did not make any sense to me. Maybe I misunderstood, but that would be a good start.

I go into the wilderness with some frequency and one time I came across a marijuana grow...looked kind of small...and in my effort to detour around it...I was confronted by two individuals...young caucasions...and being that I had my .357 on my hip with my hand on it...and they did not appear to be armed...after a brief conversation I was allowed to go on my way. I basically just told them that I didn't give a fuck about their little patch of marijuana.

But that "study" was done by an anti-immigration group called "FAIR"
That's not a "study" that takes into account what people put IN the economy.

It started with a biased opinion, and then it's "study" miraculously reached the same conclusion.

That is not a govt. study based on real statistics. For instance...how much do those illegals put BACK into the economy in money they spend, sales tax they pay, money they save countless businesses (which is COMPLETELY undocumented by any study because of it's "illegal" nature).

The fact is, for every argument on one side, there is an equal argument on the other side.

And my point was that right now in 2010 the uproar has begun because of VIOLENCE on the border. And that violence for the most part is happening because of drug cartels whose only existence is due to the U.S. war on drugs.

I'll ask this one more time, since nobody seems to want to address it:

IF adults in the United States were able to have a little bit of freedom and make their own decisions on whether or not they like to get high (and judging from all the statistics and the aforementioned violence on the border...I think we already know that people DO like to get high), and the "war on drugs" was stopped. Just dead fucking stopped. Drugs were no longer illegal. Then don't you think that drugs would then become cheap and easy to get? Which would mean the very existence of a Drug Cartel would become meaningless (just like bootleggers were out of business once alcohol prohibition ended). And that would mean NO MORE drug cartels fighting each other (because they wouldn't exist).

Now if all that happened...and the violence was gone. Then wouldn't things be exactly like they have been all along? Mexicans crossing the border to do cheap labor that nobody else will do?

And please don't personally attack me. Just think about what I'm saying and address the reasons you think it would or wouldn't make any difference.

In other words explain to me...in simple terms...do you think that the violence and danger along the border that suddenly exploded in the last few years is due to drug cartel wars over turf. And if that stopped, and the national parks were safe again (because drugs would be legal) and nobody was being shot or kidnapped (because the drug cartels don't exist)...would it then be okay to have some wetbacks pick some damn oranges, do some yard work here in Vegas in the afternoon heat of 110 degrees, hand out advertisements for escort services on the strip, be a nanny to people's brats, and cook the food at the damn buffet?

Or is that just too much, and we need more troops and build a wall?

At the time I was not allowed to talk politics, i was a moderator here for a lot of that time, I did make mention on one board about when he sent 6000 troops to the border

This time is a little different, a state voted on it and the President said no

Prop 187 which I voted for was shot down by a judge.

I've been uphappy with every president since Reagan that hasn't done anything about it

SO how much of the money we give them for healthcare, welfare, schooling thats not sent back to Mexico via western union do you think they put back in the community?

I feel the same as you do...and even more so after 9/11. In my opinion after 9/11 it should have been a priority to seal both the Mexican and Canadian borders tight as a drum...for national security reasons let alone the financial burden illegal immigrants cost our country.

The issue in our state is not just the drug cartels. There have been plenty of people that are fed up with the mooching and draining of our tax dollars.
I would say there are more illegal immigrants crossing the border to get work and have the good life at the expense of American citizens VS the amount hauling drugs across the border.

This illegal immigrant uproar did not just start when the cartels got wild a crazy. It has been going on for years and finally people like our Governor has had the balls to do what the people of this state have been asking the federal government to do.

The feds are either to fucking dumb to do the job or they just don't care. The illegal immigrant issue is not going to fix itself on its own and it is up to the states to take action because the chicken shit feds refuse to enforce the laws. The drug issue is not going to fix itself either and these are two different areas that need to be addressed separately, not together.

Maybe we wouldn't have a bunch of fat lazy people in America if they got off their ass and did some of the work themselves instead of depending on cheap labor to do it for them.

Every report that I have ever seen speaks to how much of a drain on our coffers illegal immimigrants are. I have never seen a report that speaks to how illegal immigrants increase our coffers.

You seem to think that legalizing drugs is some kind of a cure all. I personally think that legalizing drugs would increase the amount of usage and the number of users. For the most part people on drugs cannot get a decent job and the overwheming majority cannot keep a job. The drugs are in control of their lives not them. I do not think that crime would go down with legalization as druggys would still committ crimes to pay for their habits.

Unfortunately...at this time I have someone very close to me (I will not say who) that was injured about 10 years ago and became an addict via legal drugs provided by Doctors. This person is not capable of holding a job although they keep trying...just fired again two weeks ago...and is on the verge of eviction...and having the car repoed. Owes every one...including me. I have repeatedly helped this person in every possible way I know how...including two interventions...paying for rehab...financial bailouts...etc...just to see this person using more and more. I am considering giving up on this person as I am really just an enabler.

Correct. Right now the law says if you are born in the US you are a US citizen. We need to change that so that if you are not a US citizen and have your kids in this country those kids are non-citizens as well.

Ok, I thought that is what you meant. I agree and the sooner the better. We should also include that there will no longer be any free health care or any aid what so ever by the taxpayers of this country. That in itself would save millions if not more.

There are no reports on how much they contribute to the economy that can be accurate. A lot of them are paid under the table. But just go to a 24 hour walmart late at night and see all the Mexicans buying staples like sheets, curtains, coffee makers, etc. And then realize that they buy food everyday. And gasoline. And vehicles. And everything else that people use on a day to day basis.

As for the drugs...Number one, everybody that wants to do drugs does them ALREADY. Neither me nor anybody else I know is going to do what we are told by the govt.
Nor is anybody who doesn't like drugs going to suddenly decide to do them if they become "legal"

If I want to get high. I will. If I have to pay a lot for it and make some murderous thug in a Mexican Cartel money...then so be it. I'd rather pay a lot less, have it taxed and freely available. I don't NEED you or any govt. telling me what I can and can't do. Doesn't that bother you in the least? That you are being told what you can and can't do to get high? "Oh, WE (big daddy govt.) have decided you can use alcohol. And prescription drugs (which are VERY addictive). But marijuana? That plant that ISN'T addictive? Oh HELL NO! We are going to make it illegal and profitable for drug cartels to become billionaires"

That's what I'm talking about. Where drugs are concerned...just look at Amsterdam. I've been there. Prostitution is legal. People don't get arrested smoking pot.
Those people are FREE. The way we are supposed to be.

I'm sorry guys...I just really feel like the Mexican "problem" is caused by the drug cartels. And in my mind there is no doubt that U.S. policies are 10000% responsible for creating the conditions that made those cartels. And now the chickens are coming home to roost.

In my humble opinion, we made a mistake starting the drug war. And now, instead of just admitting it and backing off...we are compounding that mistake with MORE mistakes. And we end up with violence and our prison system clogged with people who are not "real" criminals.

Funny to see how a situation that the USA loved ( having cheap labor, kept in a catch22 situation ) backfires.... :1orglaugh

[QUOTE]Mexican Workers in Canada on the Increase
Sunday, 19 August 2007 19:00 .| Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper and Mexican President Felipe Calderon will be meeting this week to discuss increased labour mobility between their countries. Building on a current successful program that brings in thousands of Mexican agricultural workers every year, the Canadian government would like to bring in even more Mexican workers to deal with Canada?s chronic labour shortages.

Canada's Seasonal Agricultural Workers Program currently takes in 12,000 Mexican workers. The Canadian government plans to channel the additional temporary Mexican workers into the low and semi-skilled occupations where the labour shortages are most severe. The energy sector in Alberta, for example, would benefit from the increase.

Mexican migration to Canada has been soaring since the mid 1990's due to the easing of entrance requirements brought about by the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) and the mounting problems in the United States regarding Mexican immigration. Between 1991 and 2001, Canada's number of permanent and temporary residents from Mexico nearly doubled to almost 43,000.

Though the focus of a possible new labour mobility agreement would be on temporary workers, the number of Mexicans arriving in Canada under the Skilled Worker category of immigration is on the rise as well. Additionally, the number of Mexicans studying in Canada has been steadily increasing.

http://www.canadavisa.com/mexican-wo...se-070820.html
[/QUOTE]

The border wont be closed. Democrats want the votes and big business wants the cheap labor.

[QUOTE=directfiesta;17293217]Funny to see how a situation that the USA loved ( having cheap labor, kept in a catch22 situation ) backfires.... :1orglaugh
[QUOTE]

I would have to agree with you on this one :winkwink:

MY Father used to always tell me we were living under a false economy, and all this cheap labor/free lunch stuff would come back to bite us in the ass one day.

His favorite term was "This country is gong down the tubes" and china will own us one day.

That was in the late 60's......looks like he was right once again :thumbsup