650 unanswered questions from operators of shady tube sites... :disgust

http://www.unodc.org/images/money-la...scheme_big.jpg

READ THIS: Connecting the Dots

ADG

only 14 pages?

14 pages is actually quite large, as are the 16k+ views.

The numbers would be higher if Nathian / Fabian Thylmann had have been more forthright about his known associates, such as the currently indicted O-u-i-s-s-a-m Youseff (minus the hyphens), and Stephane Manos ("Cheeks"), and then there is Matthew Keezer (Matt Keez), and Salam Said.

Oh well, their day will come in court. It's just a matter of time.

Since all of the above are likely foreigners, that day could come sooner than later, if they attempt to enter into the US anytime in the near future (since the FBI and Interpol, keep pretty good track of suspected criminals). If you think that you are in their cross-hairs, I would be afraid, very afraid:

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/...24_468x687.jpg

http://www.tampabay.com/multimedia/a...916_85426c.jpg

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/m...t_1214187i.jpg

If you are involved in any kind of shady/criminal activity, beware that law enforcement are probably on the lookout for you, and may be on-hand when your flight lands in the US.

I'm sorry if this inconveniences you, but if this concerns you, than maybe you shouldn't be involved in shady/illegal activities.

http://laht.com/Costa%20Rica/CR_Arrest.jpg

Roll the dice, pay the price... :winkwink:

ADG

Who doesn't launder money these days? I'd rather take my chances trying to filter it than pay it all to a government that doesn't know what to do with it.

And so, in the end, the people put aside their differences, and they all agreed... yes, indeed... the internet really was a series of tubes. Yes, tubes. Tubes large enough for cats to run around in and play and make merry and become overnight sensations in.

Because they were such nice pussies!

:winkwink:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...es_of_Bars.jpg

ADG

You sure have been the cocky one is this thread, for being a picture and video site owner. While you may still be doing ok sales wise and you may not be relying on affiliates, your days are numbered as well. I don't buy that your business is still doing great and if it still holding its own it will decrease over time with all of the other picture and video sites. Unless you offer live cams, or a ton of interaction you will go the way of all of the other sites closing down.

Sure the shit cookie cutter sites, that never updated and was built around cross sales are going first. But don't be so confident it will stop there. Those of you doing business with tube sites like pornhub are helping to supplement your sales some because of the customers you are plucking from the tube site where as the other companies with their content being stolen and put up on tube sites are losing sales to tube sites and gaining nothing.

Here is the deal, the tube site is hoarding a lot of the traffic on the net now. You and a small group of companies are doing deals with these tube sites to split up the "x" number of buying customers on the tube site. I'll give you an example.

Lets say 100K people find a tube site for the first time every day. (these are example numbers) Lets say of those 100K people 1K would have went on to be a porn buyer if they didn't find the tube site first and the full length videos. Of those 1K people, now only 100 is still willing to buy, the other 900 are satisfied with the full length videos. Now lets say that you and 9 other companies are featured heavily on that tube site. For the sake of examples, lets say that those 10 companies benefit from those 100 sales, they each get 10 sales a day. So even though 900 potential buyers were lost, you still made 10 sales, so what the hell do you care right? So what if you and those other 9 companies are the only ones benefiting from tube sites, where as those 900 sales didn't go other companies, so you don't care.

I truly believe what I explained above is happening. I believe the people who worked out deals on tube sites are making decent sales from it, because of shear volume but at the cost of the entire industry because so many potential porn buyers dont end up buyer because they found the full length stuff for free and that satisfies them enough vs paying $30 a month, potentially being crossed sale to death, not being able to cancel, getting bogus charges, etc.

Now here is the problem for those people like you Far-L. You doing good "now" but your days a limited as well because:

1. It's only a small group of companies like you working with the tube sites. But that wont last long, the tube site doesn't care about making sure the pool is small so the people involved get a big piece of the pie and a lot of sales, they care about having a ton of content. So people like Nathan will pick up as many companies as they can get so he can add as much content as he can to his site. So today you might be splitting it 10 ways, in six months or a year you might be splitting it 100 ways. So your 10 sales a day goes down to 1 sale a day.

2. In my example, those 900 that don't buy. Well that is 27,000 over the course of one month, as the number grows more and more each day you better believe that some of those people would have found your site somewhere else and paid. So you are losing potential sales because of the tube site. Don't be naive, you making sales from the tube site but you will have a net loss at some point even with your content on there with links back to you. Once the tube site is saturated with advertisers + the large number of potential buyers decreasing daily that find the tube site for the first time, you will see a net loss in the near future.

3. credit card crunch and declines, it is affecting everyone.

You might be a fast tough little dinosaur that made a deal with the devil for protection but sooner or later the comet is going to wipe you all out and the devil could give a shit. Enjoy your cockiness and continue to think you won't be affected by all of this... that attitude will ensure your own demise even more. I would suggest either starting your own tube site, or a cams site.. and praying you are good at one of them.

Shap can come on here and talk shit. He is one of the few who can, he owns some great tube site names and built his own tube sites where he controls the traffic and can control how the pie gets split up and how many of the sales his tube site generates can go to him. Far-L you have no room you be cocky, all you have is a picture and video site and dealing with the tube sites might cause you to hang on longer but it wont save you.

I'm better off than you, by being skilled in promoting cam sites. Tube sites aren't going to crush my sales, but it will crush your business ultimately.

Please, I thought you already promised to get off my jock and here you are, back on it and trying to ride me like a cowboy into the sunset before the final credits roll.

First off, calling me arrogant and then explaining to me how I am going to fail just pretty much makes you a self absorbed all assuming jackass. Climb off your high horse there cowboy. Seriously kemosabee, you better check the six gun before you start shooting blanks. Saying that all we do is pix and vids just proves to me how little you know about Homegrown Video and what we offer. Maybe if you actually realized how well we convert/retain off tubes you would back off a bit but I doubt it. You are too busy being so right and thinking I am so wrong that you could never even begin to comprehend the folly of your position.

By your own logic then even you are going to fail. Even cam sites are turning to a new "free" model in case you haven't been paying attention.

If you want to call us a "dinosaur" then you should probably realize that we are more like a tortoise or crocodile or one of those prehistoric reptiles that has been around for millions and millions of years. (Newsweek - "Homegrown Video is the longest running series in the history of porn") We are not one of those old school brick and mortar porn valley companies that sold off the library. If you actually were paying attention to the Acacia thing and understood that then you might have a better idea, but I don't think you think so much as react and act like a child about things.

Btw... did Newsweek, GQ, Marie Claire, US News, HBO, CBS, ABC, etc. etc., ever do a story on you camboy?

High noon hits and you are going to be the one eating the dust and feeding the crows you tenderfoot hayseed yellowbelly cuss. :1orglaugh:321GFY

I was off your jock, just pointing out the obvious and adding to the discussion. It would have been nice if you could have just re-fruited what I had to say and entered into a good discussion.

Thanks for more arrogant replies like " did Newsweek, GQ, HBO blah blah blah blah" do stories on me. You living in the past bro. Who did what on you in the past means shit going forward in regards to making money. The times are changing daily, while you may have been featured for something 8 years ago or even 3 that means shit now. I know you the cool guy with sites mentioned in the media so i have no right to talk and you the cool guy who spent a lot of money fighting acacia so I have no right to talk. But what you don't realize is that thinking that way doesn't make you a cool guy, just a pompous ass who thinks his opinion is the only one that matters to be heard because everyone else doesn't have the accolades that he has.

Reread your reply, you spent 80% of it on trying to bash me and brag about yourself. You spent very little if any disproving what I posted about. The only "knock" I made on you was you being cocky and arrogant, I think most people would agree after reading your replies.

As fas as cam sites being affected by sites like myfreecams, go do GFY search, its been commented on and explained by me and other people knowledgeable on cams several times. Go educate yourself on cams if you like and read those threads, i know whats going on with cams, if you have something new you think you have to offer feel free to share.

Btw, how is homegrown an interactive site and so much more than just pictures and videos? So people submit real home made stuff to you... it's still all based on pictures and videos, all your stuff that they can obviously be stolen and found for free on a tube site. Explain to me the value in the "experience" of being a member of your site that makes it worth paying $59.95 ? educate me, instead of insulting me and bragging about yourself... or is that all you are good for... patting yourself on the back and insulting other people.

btw, if you the main guy running the company then your attitude is going to be your down fall. You are so high on your past success you can't see the headlights of the freight train heading your way, you are so full of yourself and what you company DID that you not going to know what hit you in the end.

I also don't need to be featured on news week to be successful and make a lot of money or to make my opinion matter. I have no idea how much you have made, you have no idea how much this "cam boy" has made. However I don't going around bragging about what I have done and discrediting people just because they might not have been as successful as I have.

Have a good weekend, insult away back at me if you desire, however I really doubt I will get a mature, educated response out of you.

I spent so much time giving you reasonable and informative responses throughout; plus I was the only one here speaking up and taking the unpopular task of defending something that everyone else just wants to condemn out of hand - at least publicly. All you did was call me names, which you continue to do.

How about this? You learn a little bit more about what we do and why content is only one facet of what keeps people on our site, or any other successful member site surviving in the days of free content. When you actually say something more intelligent than just another long winded hot air indictment of me and my company maybe I will treat you with an ounce of respect. Considering I extended the olive branch to you already once and you attacked me for it I consider you to be barely worth the dead skin that will exfoliate off my fingers as I type this.

Unfortunately, at this point, I think you haven't said anything meaningful, nor are you about to. You are a zealot with an agenda that is kind of pointless at this point, seriously. If you want an intelligent discourse, then the proper thing to do would be to ask me why we have not been hurt in this market like so many others. I get where you are coming from. You still don't have a clue where we are coming from. The worst part is you try to hide that ignorance behind misplaced, unfounded, baseless criticisms of us.

:error

The only thing "we" have been talking about until my most recent posts is how you are an idiot for thinking that these sites don't steal the content, or at least didn't use to steal the content themselves. The last couple posts I made where questioning why you may still be doing good now but that you too are also at jeopardy to the tube sites even though you are profiting off of them right now. You have ignored that entire discussion.

fuck your respect. I didn't ask for it nor do I want it. The last 2 posts I have made were asking honest business questions, you want to continue to blow smoke up your own ass, thats fine keep trying to argue with me and belittle me. Ignore the business discussion, if can't answer the question, then make long winded replies avoiding the questions :thumbsup

I just posed some honest business questions about the model that you think is going to be fine. I see from your stats that a lot of your traffic is coming from youporn and pornhub. I explained how there isn't a lot of companies on those sites right now getting traffic back like you do so you are profiting from them, now. But how will you fare when they start adding several other companies on there and the pool of porn buyers keeps getting divided up?

You keep talking about how there is more to your site than pictures and videos but you wont say what it is?

Instead of answering the questions you typing long ass replies to argue with me and tell me how I am not worth replying to :1orglaugh You make no sense. It is obvious you can't answer my questions and you don't want to face the facts.... you will live and die by the tubes. You rely on the tubes for a lot of your traffic and if they saturate their own sites (which they will to continue to fill it up with legal content by doing deals with all big sites out there) then your sales will gone down as you will be competing with more and more companies for those sales.

keep replying back with your " we've been featured on blah blah, we spent more money than blah blah" hold on to your past, keep your head in your ass, and enjoy the ride down. :thumbsup

You are calling me long winded? ummmm. ok. Let's just let that one get called by a third party.

Ok. Here it is and better pay attention since you obviously missed this the first ten times I tried to explain it to you.

1. We are a brand that has customer loyalty. The fan example used earlier by Robbie about the Stones works for us too. People like us. They trust us. They are willing to pay for the service, entertainment, consistency, and the uniqueness of what we provide. I learned a lot about free content and community during my years following the Dead. I don't expect you to understand. We have long term fans and we continue to earn new fan's loyalty in the same way. I can get any Dead show for free, so why do I still buy their releases?

2. Yes there are ten more companies at the door. Some will have something unique but most will be just trying to copy what everyone else does so they will miss the boat. Looking at most tubes and after a while you realize that it is mostly the same stuff, over and over, very little personality, and starts to become boring. We do our best not to fall into the same trap. The tube surfers apparently think the same since we look at their feedback and ratings.

3. In a community site, where the members are part of the experience and feel like they are actively involved in the creation and mutual pleasure of the site, you get a different kind of loyalty to the product, beyond brand, beyond fashion... it is called love.

4. We have always looked past where things are and set goals for what we want. Sometimes we win. Sometimes we lose. Regardless, we stay in control of our brand and product and don't ever "give it all away" or do anything desperate. If you saw as many companies fall apart as I have over the years then you would probably appreciate our "tortoise" approach rather than the "hare" strategy so many employ.

5. Diversification - we know how to pick lots of different apples from the money tree.

6. If you are a cam expert, then you must understand how the girls that are the best looking are not necessarily the ones making the most money -in fact, it is usually the girls with the best personality. Imagine a site where even the management staff/webmasters/etc. behaved in that manner, interacting with the customers in that fashion -and the content had personality and spontaneity instead of being so rote you could set your watch to it - would that make sense why we are able to convert and retain?

There is more but I will leave it at that for now. If you can have the decency to respond professionaly then I will be happy to discuss further and provide more detail.

you guys are way off the topic of this thread. let's get back to nathan and the new owners.

The difference is I am not making a long wind post about how you are not worth replying to.


You may have loyal customers, but they fall off along the way and you need to replace them. They get married, move on, can't afford it, credit cards get declined, find something better... well that stuff happens regardless of tube sites but now that your content is out there on tube sites for free, its hurting your ability to replace those that fall off.

You totally missed it here. I said that tube sites will keep bringing in more and more companies as they go legit because they will want legal content. They not going to just stick with the small group they are working with right now. There is a finite number of porn buyers they produce a day from their site. When you have to split up the site with 100 other companies vs 10 (from my example) your tube sites sales will suffer. You live by the tubes you die by the tubes. According to alexa 40% of your traffic comes from youporn and pornhub alone.

what is more powerful than love is money. When times get tight for your site lovers, they will do with out the "experience" and watch the same damn full length clips for free that are on tube sites.

I see you reference "the sky is falling" people but yet you are still here. It's your arogance that is going to kill you. Your full length content on tube sites for free, is the one issue that really will kill you. If you didn't think it was an issue and didn't hurt you wouldn't ask them to take it down. Why do you ask them to take it down if your "experience" is so good, then the full length videos out there for free wouldn't be hurting you then right?

about the only thing I agree with and with your attitude on your current business forecast about tube sites, i hope you do a good job at diversifying.

sure, it would help, but just having the "managment' interact with you isn't going to be worth it for people to stick around at $19.95 a month when they can get everything else for free on a tube site. But you can't compare a girl chatting with a guy live on cam and giving him a great show with the management of your site getting involved with the members. You also can't compare with going to a concert with making pirated copies of the music. If you want to do a good comparison, you can go to one concert 100% free but you have to walk around to a couple different stages and the people in the crowd aren't talkative to you or you pay $100 to go to a concert to see the same band where you can sit in a chair and don't have to move and the people next to you are nice. In today's economy, 95% are going to go to the free concert and do a little walking if they want to catch all the songs or they will just listen to a few and go home and save their money. How do you compete with the free concert when you trying to have a paid one?

ALSO, your "experience" isn't something you advertise on your site, so how will potential buyers even know about it, nor to be honest would they care. The only thing 90+% of these viewers care about is watching the video and getting off, not that the managers of the site might interact with them and it might be fun, especially not at a price of coughing up $59.95 to join the site... when they can get the videos for free on the net. Maybe you can keep a small portion from leaving you to go to a tube site, but everyone cancels eventually. And retention rate is just as important as replacement rate. If you retain even 6 months but your new sales are impacted and drop off then your base will still decline and you will never recover.

I suspect you doing business with the tube sites has insulated you some from seeing the big drops that other programs have faces from their content being stolen and found on sites like youporn and pornhub. But you get sales from there. I explained, at lenght how that may help you now, but even that will be diluted as they add more and more people like you. You are just a pawn to them, they could give a shit about you, but it seems you have this false sense of security and can't see how in the end you going to end up just like everyone else but you were in bed with them and defended them and they still fucked you.

And with you having an attitude like this:


It seems like you think you will be ok with tube sites because you made the tactical decision to work with them therefore you will continue to make lots of sales. You don't want to listen to anyone else if they disagree with you because the rest of our opinions don't matter because we haven't done what you have.... in the past. And you made it through everything else so you will again and we are all just stupid complainers missing an opportunity to do business with the very people that will ultimately kill your business.

Reply 666 is mine.

Rereading your last post I can't believe how many false assumptions you continue to make about us and business in general. That wouldn't bother me so much if you weren't so supercilious about it. You tell me to fuck off and make false accusations and clueless assumptions about our business model and then turn around and expect me to treat you professionally.

Amazing really.

In any event, I apologize to all the people that are sick of listening to me deal with your antagonism. The worst part is that you actually think you are treating me professionally. I re-read what you wrote and you really don't ask me anything so much as tell me what you think about why we are idiots, sell-outs, whatever, doomed to fail. Why should I respond any differently?

Now, for the record - we are not one of those companies that lived and died with the rise and fall of tgp/mgp or cross sells like so many others. If that were true, I would get your point about tubes. But, unfortunately, that is just one more of your accusations that requires correction.

Here are a few of your basic, albeit, false assumptions:

Customers are dwindling. Not true. Customers won't buy anything if they see stuff free on tubes, not true. While it might not convert like SE hits it still is possible to convert. You assume customers leave but forget they come back too and especially if they have a bad experience elsewhere. You assume we put all our stuff up on tubes like others do, wrong again, and besides how many companies here have almost 30 years of content amassed? We have customers that have been with us longer than you have probably even been alive. If you think money is more powerful than love then I feel sorry for you. You have a lot to learn. Don't worry. Take your time. We will still be here if you have any questions.

Now here is a real business question... How many cam sales did you generate in this thread vs. how many affiliates we brought in? I feel pretty confident that Nathan is also having a good laugh too about how long this thread is running... :1orglaugh

leave it up to will to derail another thread with his deranged illiterate rantings that no one reads.

Word is that money launderers on the FBI/Interpol hit-list get taken down at the airport, as soon as they land:

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/...error1_600.jpg

ADG

DWB's definition of Love:

Money can buy me teenage Thai twins who will both slob my knob at the same time and make out while doing it. They both love my money. I love when they make out and eat my cum out of the others snatch. I have a phone full of numbers of little hookers like this who I can order to my house like a pizza.

What's there not to LOVE about that? :pimp

That other version of love is over-rated. Been there, done that, and it didn't involved Asian twins. :upsidedow

I know, I know... it's sad and you feel sorry for me. It's tough, I will admit. Some days I don't know how I'm going to make it, but somehow find the power to man up and pull myself through those depressing days.

I've treated you the way your pompous ass has acted in this thread.

i'm not reading your shit any more, and just putting you on ignore so I am not tempted to reply to your crap. The funny thing is if you weren't so defensive and quick to spout off all of your accolades from the PAST, you might actually give some thought to what I and other people here was saying and it could help you. Time will tell how things work out in the future for your business model especially with so much of your traffic coming from tube sites now.

I'll leave it at that and that I think you are an asshole. have a good one.

I've worked with Asian twins a few times, including Luci and Nyla Thai, but that was on separate occasions:

http://3.thumbs.tubesubmits.com/v2/t...7-53932467.jpg

While it's true that money can in some instances buy love (or a reasonable facsimile), there is still much to enjoy about true love and even platonic love... :)

ADG

Don't know how this transformed into a literal "love" vs "money" debate. I am sure jackass took it out of context some kind of way instead of how it applied here. The discussion was in regards to the "love for a site" bullshit vs money. Someone might be a happy customer and loves the site, but if money gets tight and they can get the content for free elsewhere, then money will reign all most all the time.

mjauuuuuu... :upsidedow

lol @ signbucks making 10m

Love the business your customers bring and treat them with great affection and LOVE in return. Like I said, I knew you would never get it.

Will, go back to promoting your cams and climb down off your high horse, pard'ner... you made this personal and no amount of quoting me out of context is going to change the fact that you are a tenderfoot full of skunk piss looking to play keyboard gunslinger. You were beat to the draw and now all you have accomplished with your petty tirades is to make most of the real business people run screaming from this board... They don't want to indulge the drivel you enjoy driving through like a six mule team on every thread where you hope to look like some kind of preacher come to raise Cain.

All you got at this point is calling me names and swearing at me. You might want to go back and re-read "Idiots Guide to being Professional". In the end though, you should just get your pious annoying ass out of town by sundown since you already tarred and feathered yourself in this thread, you good for nothing yellowbelly cur.

You mean dont start out your relationship with a customer by ripping them off with fraudulent charges and update you members area frequently?

Adapt or die?

far l, dont be so quick to jump on a ship without knowing its manifest.

Don't worry about me though I appreciate your concern. I only go on boats where I can bring my dive kit... and it is never a problem to pack my dry suit either.

:thumbsup:thumbsup

well unfortunately, IT shows as #667.................... ;)

Alias is right, though. He has the 666th reply, since the opening post is #1. :)

yeah I know............. just splittin hairs:winkwink:

Trouble maker! :winkwink:

We must be twins! Life is grand!

Why do international criminals think they can avoid arrest when they travel to the US?

The FBI and Interpol keep lists of names of people to apprehend upon landing in this country...

http://www.judiciaryreport.com/image...i-arrest-2.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_5KANzsTyCI...erroarrest.jpg

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crime does pay.

When Interpol locks in on a target, such as an international money laundering operation, it's usually the criminals that pay...

http://m.boonty.com/gamesimages/4463_us_sc1.jpg

ADG

While Nathan can act big, since he did dish out 140Million just recently, i have no idea where does Far-L come from. Programs with 2-3k members can't really be called successful can they? What would 50k+ programs say then.

?

ok. I am fine with you underestimating us, you are not the first and you won't be the last. You actually do us a favor by doing so. However, I never said we were big, nor would I ever claim to be. I merely stated that we are growing rather than shrinking and that we spent a lot fighting some legal battles over the years -that is not bragging, that is just fact, and one which I am not proud of by any stretch - except for the hard knocks education it afforded us. I would much rather have put that money in my bank account trust me. We are not small, we are not big, but we are much bigger than small and way smaller than big.

Anyone that has actually met me knows that I am the opposite of arrogant. That charge is just one more falsehood created by Will76 and it is just part of the effort to find something, anything, wrong with us. Guess it is easier to pick on poor, weak, scrawny little Homegrown Video than it is to start a fight with $140 million dollar company...:1orglaugh

So go ahead and piss in the same bucket with Will76. Maybe you can both compare dick sizes while you are at it... :321GFY

So your claim is that you have more then 2 to 3 thousand active members? You're going the Nathan route there where he does not know stan or whatever was it i can't recall now.
Also, from since i've known of your program you were dwidling around those numbers. I would not call that growing.
Start a fight? Wtf, are you 10? I'm just reading and calling it how it is. When nathan lied, i called him on it. You do act like you are worth way more then you are.

I honestly dont thing 50k programs excist anymore.....not even close

Besides even if homegrown "Only" has 3k members that will put them in the 7 figures a year easily if you take other revenue sources into account im sure.

Besides if you dont know homegrown i would say that you much have had your head in the sand for a loong loong as time

They very much exist. I did not even name all the shitload of programs that are inbetween 3k and 50k.
Your paysite math is way way off. I hope you don't plan on running a paysite anytime soon.
Just because i do know them, that's why i dont get the attitude.

I just honestly think you dont know much about business to be honest
Figure 10+ years of gathering productions....
1. 3k members paying 20-30 bucks pr month
2. Traffic sent to other systems
3. Most likely tons of Cam traffic
4. VOD / Feeds / IPTV
5. Broadcast / Sattelite
6. DVD
7. Hotels

List goes on
Anyone who has been in business for that long and not taking full advantage of all of the above is loosing money, and i doubt that is the case with Homegrown

This is not just about what paysites make, its about what your company makes.

don't forget webmaster referrals.

Yea, like i said, your paysite math is way way off if you think 2-3 k members gives you 1 mill in profits yearly. I see you listed all that and there's absolutely no expenses, and you figure all the joins are their own etc etc etc i could go for ages here. You should really stick to doing what you do, leave paysite math to others, since if by your calculations, 2-3k programs were raking in 1 mill a year in profits, please, how much would a program with 200k rake in yearly? By your math, at least 200 million a year.
I know paysites with 10-14k members that don't make nearly 1 mill a year clear in profits.

Most of that doesn't pay anywhere near what it used to. Times are slow all the way around. At one time it was all a gold mine. Times change.

Where did i say profit?
You are jumping to conclusions.

And no my math is not off