adarpt or die.

You start to sell something better than crack. And/or go on a murder spree.

I think I'm going to have to disagree with you there.

Yep, that guy with the violin is ME with my tgps.

Still waiting for the punchline...

Then why the fuck are you just standing there? Go to another place and start playing on the violin.

Blame youtube, blame google.

Great example. So True. FUCK ADAPTING and the Followers that use that Word. Damn I hate that word when it comes to Tube Sites.

Because that's the only place he can play/panhandle without breaking the law. :winkwink:

That flasher will eventually go to jail, but justice is just way too slow.

:pimp

lol
Yeah, that's pretty much the situation.

I did try playing the drums and the viola and tuba to "adapt"...but it seems that no matter what I played, the free pussy kicked my ass everytime. :1orglaugh

:thumbsup:thumbsup:thumbsup nice one

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh awesome

interesting point. tubes are nothing more than a new way to distribute content made possible by better technology (faster connections).

the fact that no one seems able to control piracy and content theft online is the real issue, be it in tubes, rapidshare, torrents, etc. tubes are just more user friendly (and for that reason get a disporponiate amount of the traffic and attention).

Full length movies won't sell shit, but to be honest, those old looking sites need to adapt. Adaption doesn't mean posting full movies, but they look like shit. Seriously. Something out of the 90's. Or even 80's, my Commodore can do better. And you can't put up some few ugly women in their 50's fucking in a classroom and promote them as "teen" niche. Those times are over, those bookmarkers must be dead by now.

LIFE LESSON #26:

There are TWO types of porn "fans":

1. Those who just want to whack off, have a pop, get a quick orgasm and move on. It's like eating cookies to them: I'm hungry, what's in the pantry? Well, I really like Chips Ahoy but all there's only Oreos...well, Oreos are free and I don't feel like dragging my ass to the store so GULP. Ahhh that felt good! Now what did I have to do with the rest of my day?

2. Afficionados. The "discerning" consumer. Someone who loves porn but loves HIS kind of porn (whatever that may be). Fetish? Niche? Sure - but even guys who just like POV (so they can fantasize it's their dicks getting sucked/fucked) or big titted blondes or group sex or MILFs...THESE kind of porn fans WILL buy but only for something they consider "woth it".

SO: It's OUR jobs to stop concentrating on porn fan #1 because, honestly, he just wants to come and doesn't really care who/why/how/where etc. Therefore, we need to focus on porn fan #2: buy OUR shit because it fulfills what you want (and need?).

There's also an age factor: younger porn fans raised on free shit are disinclined to pay for something they've always gotten for free. So fuck the under-30's (they usually have little to no $ anyway). When you get to the over 40's - those with money, busy lives and responsibilities - they WILL PAY, for the convenience of not searching through free tubes for hours JUST to find that short-haired big-titted blonde they love to jerk it to.

So what do "older" porn fans WANT? Design your tours for THEM, focus your marketing skills on THEM, appeal to THEM and their needs. And guess what? Most people in this category do NOT want to visit a porn tour that looks like they just walked into a Red Light District in Amsterdam. Flashing GIFs, this element POPPING in their face, music screeching in their ears.....

Finally, if you're an under-40 adult webmaster then chances are you're struggling BIG TIME. NOT because you didn't get into the biz soon enough but because the way you view the world doesn't "match" your customer's expectations. You're marketing like a 28 year old and have no clue what the 44 year old porn BUYER wants, and what will motivate him to open his wallet.

So check yoself b4 you wreck yoself.

</RANT>

:eek7:eek7

Vsex.com is the answer to tube sites.

jump on the train, then you wont care anymore. Otherwise, I feel your argument as it is warranted but life is short and there is money to be made

Man, read the sell&buy forum, waiting for your reply. Whats your icq?

good luck, man!

Yes 16 pics versus a full movie is a big difference NOW but back in 95-2000 most people were still on Dialup and pictures were the in thing And back then whole sets from members areas were getting put up on tgps and no one said a damn thing then So in essence is kinda same thing thats happening now just in a different perspective. So those times versus these times i'd say are somewhat similar.

If you havent taken notice the spons programs that are surviving are the ones that have inner dealings with the tubes. Say what you want, but reality is spons tell us affiliates one thing to get the free traff but do totally opposite.

I know at least 10 big spons that are in the pockets of the big tubes and they are making MAD bank. In reality think about it from business end of things, Why wouldn't they deal with the tubes? they only have to deal with 1 or 2 people per tube on a regular basis, not 500 diff affiliates asking how to do this and that, and they make BIG MONEY period. Therefore They can pare down their support staff and increase their profit margin.

Do they post here on the board bitching Why of course they do because they want all the affiliates that do send em traffic to think they are 100% legit and totally against tubes,

THIS.

Basically my exact opinion I have felt for some time before being a affiliate manager. So many sites just continue on as they have since day one, posting new content yes, but no other progressions. Better SEO, marketing, design, layout, quality traffic trading is what will matter. I don't see a tube site as a requirement to adapt and I personally don't even find them appealing, most are a bunch of low quality thumbs that all look the same. I MUCH rather prefer a TGP with some creativity to it that makes it different and appealing.

To this day, I think I actually viewed a tube once for my personal enjoyment, I stick to MGP/TGPs when I bother to surf in my personal time. Some of them have been around for 10 years. If I was going to spend time viewing a entire movie I would rather just buy the DVD or get a membership for the quality etc.

Do something different, market your site to be unique in some way. :2 cents:

90% of surfers are of no concern to us. In fact 99+% of surfers are no concern to us. It's the tiny minority of member, those who buy, who are of concern to us that count. And it's these people we need to address our attentions to.

An industry that keeps selling what's free is doomed to failure. An industry that desires to survive will adapt and start selling what's not being given away for free. Live shows is an obvious example. Costly yes, impossible no. Would it take surfers back from Tubes in growing numbers enough to hurt Tubes sites finances? Maybe. Could we then target Dating sites and start giving away their content? Needs someone to work out how it can be done but again possible. Selling it half the price of normal prices, for instance what AFF charge, or directing people to free and more reliable Dating sites. Could again be another add on to help revive the industry.

A big lock down of content is impossible. Totally and utterly impossible. If in the very unlikely chance of the Internet industry doing this 75% it leaves 25% who won't. If 100% of the Internet industry did it new content would be ripped from DVDs. Or did you think porn was just on the Internet?

Which tgps did that? We certainly never posted whole sets from members areas. Everyone we knew all bought content and made galleries. I can only speak from 1996 forward. But during that time period al4a.com was the number one site page ranked on sextracker, the only other guy even close to us was the hun who was number two. Nobody else was even close. We were the biggest and we didn't do that. So what tgp did that could have caused any damage during that time period?

The consensus seems to be that the vast majority of surfers prefer non-webcam content. They want to watch sex, not talk in a chat room with 50 guys and one girl. They want to access content whenever it is convenient for them, not when the girl they like is available once a day.

The technology to make content 99.9% theft proof is already easily and cheaply available, so that's not the problem. Now you just need make content which is worth paying for. You are the producer, I'm sure you can come up with such content without me needing to spell it out for you.

Yes but with the vast majority of surfers not buying anything who should we target. Them or buyers? A lot of members will not want to chat with a girl, but will they want to watch her get off in real time. Knowing that she's there now and doing it for the audience. You must of never seen a live show with people clambering to get a glimpse. :)

And it does not need to be only solo girl, it can be solo, lesbian, boy girl or even groups. The more varied the better.

And who says it need to be once a day? It can be more often than that. It does not have to be one producer feeding it into a site or a big sponsor only doing one a day.

The only thing that holds us back is the cost. With so much spent to get people to the tour there's not enough left for the members area.

Illustrates how little you thought this through.

Let's dream that 100% of websites lock down content. What will the pirates do? They will take content from DVDs. Porn exists beyond the Internet. :winkwink:

Of course I can come up with ways to make better content. The problem is getting sponsors to pay for it. You can't do much with the prices being paid for content today.

Also stop sending traffic to sites that advertise on Tubes, they too are as much the enemy as Tubes sites. If not more.

What I find most stunning about the tubes is the incredible traffic they receive. We used to drool over The Hun's daily traffic figures, but many of these tubes put even a peak Hun to shame.

The top TGPs screwed up by clinging to the same process for too long, which in turn caused the smaller TGPs to do the same since submitters weren't going to create one version for submission to the "TGP mafia" and another for the more liberal TGP owners. In fact, I don't think the submission rules really even changed over a 10+ year period.

With all of this traffic that the largest tubes get, it now seems pretty clear that surfers disliked the TGP format all these years. You can of course get into the argument of longer, higher quality material, but I think the general presentation of that material played a huge role in surfers leaving the TGP for the tube.

You know what I hate? I hate people bitching for 3 years about something that won't go away any time soon.

I really believe that Paul is on the right path with his approach. The guy that just watches a few clips of generic porn and wacks off was never the guy that bought porn in the first place. He was whacking to the tgps and then the mgps and now the tubes.

Porn has got to become more interactive and more personal than before. Youtube brought us the tubes, now facebook will bring us the next phase. I have some ideas, but the first companies to bring truly interactive porn will make bank.

:thumbsup

Great answer, I agree.
The "Free Model Business" is not only piracy or stolen content.
Online Porn Business should update. Think about Mobile Apps Marketplaces, tons of apps free but some developers are making money like crazy.

Great post. My thinking exactly. Sexual gratification is one of the most powerful human emotions/needs. There are 1000s of people who have certain fetishes and will pay to see more of what they like.

Tubes suck but if there is any good that comes from them is that they are creating a society that is hooked on porn like never before. As these people age their income will increase but their lives will also become busier, they will have less time to search for the free porn they love and more willing to pay for it.

Even if there werent any tubes the amount of competition that would have entered into the industry in the last few years (because of how profitable online porn was) would have probably put everyone in the same spot financially. Its the basic law of supply and demand at work.

I do feel for the content producers who see their shit stolen. That definitely isnt right. Content protection is a new business requirement in this day and age, and if you arent protecting your stuff effectively you are going to feel the pain.

The glory days of easy money may be gone but after 13 years in this business I am still making a great income and I am looking forward to many more years of success :)

Great post.

We need to stop worrying about the 99%, #1 porn fan, who don't buy and look after the 1%, #2 porn fan, who do.

Of course the people who like webcams are "clambering to get a glimpse" in a webcam show. That doesn't change the fact that most people don't like webcams. Your logic is flawed.

If you are confident the "live shows as part of membership" will work, why don't you do it? Why do you have to wait for somebody else to pay you for the content? If you think it will work, you should try it to take the risk and keep the reward.

You are confused. If you have content which is only found on your website, and it is 100% locked down online, and you never put it on DVD, then the pirates will never get hold of it.

You have been saying the same thing for so long that you just keep repeating yourself, even when presented with new facts and ideas.

You are thinking: They won't buy because they are not buyers.
My position: They are not buying because what you are selling is not good enough.

This is not communism. There is no such thing as "buyers" and "non buyers," the only difference between your potential customers is how good of a product you need to have before they become willing to pay for it. The better the product, and the value of it, the greater % of people will take out their CC.

This should all be obvious to you by now.

Shall we all move to the dope market then??

I am doing it and the numbers who log in just to watch the live show back it up.

You are confused. If you have YOUR website 100% locked down you still rely on the rest of the Internet to lock down their sites. And even if you did there would still be DVD content. Unless you had something so unique and wonderful the customers just had to have it. And in todays world that's pretty well unlikely.

People have been repeating the same thing for so long they just keep repeating themselves, even when faced with logic.

Right you can't force people to buy, you have to supply them with something worth buying. And can't be found or it's similar for free.

Getting sites to upgrade their content to that level would take a major rethink. And restructuring of the industry. No sponsor can afford to do this today. They couldn't or wouldn't in the good times.

If your solution to free content taking the business away is locking down content and up grading it to a level that surfers have to buy you're kidding yourself.

There are way more people online right now?

mitnick once said "let the games begin". and martin luther king once said " this coffee tastes like shit"

p.s. any word on the security compromise at gfy ?

Yes it is possible to create great content. Here are some examples. Viv Thomas and Wicked and Evil Angel and Ben Dover One of them does not even have an affiliate program.

None are 100% web based and probably earn more from DVD than the web. Even I could not of produced what I did without magazine sales.

Dude thats it right there... it is NOT about what the surfers want, the fucking surfers want it all for free of course! But we should tease them and only give them a little so they buy... this is the problem. Give them what they want, which is everything for free, they wont fucking buy.

Ive always been about limited samples and it used to work...

Welcome to 2010. What year have you been living in?