there is no comparison there.

shit american against solid german engineering.

well, you are right about that part, a luxury brand v. a non-luxury brand.

too bad bimmer quality can compete.

Your comment doesn't make any sense.

First of all, as an enthusiast I respect all cars cars that perform well. I'm not talking 'preferences' I'm talking hard performance numbers. I don't care what your opinion is about what type of people they're targeted towards.

I knew people who bought E30 M3s TO RACE, they weren't women and they weren't buying them to impress clients. They completely gutted them out, put racing compound tires and went head to head against Corvettes, Vipers, etc on a road course. You could show me a commercial right now with an M3 logo and a tampon, it won't matter those guys are still enthusiasts.

Go checkout the E30 M3 forum, a lot of those guys are hardcore racers.
http://www.s14.net/photopost/

Agreed 100%

Same curb weight
Same braking distances
Same acceleration numbers
Same skidpad figures
Nearly identical lap times
Same available options

No comparison at all, those guys were nuts to race them against each other! :1orglaugh :error

You can't compare interiors with only pictures.

What he means is that the Mustang is full of cheap hard plastics.

Press on the dashboard of a European car, including the 1 series, it is soft to the touch and warm, that is because they don't use hard plastics but Polyurethane foam. rubber like and very strong. It makes a huge difference to the quality, it doesn't rattle or shake at all, doesn't come off if you pull on it, no gaps between panels, etc.

not uncommon for that guy.
again, it's a luxury brand v. a non-luxury brand. funny thing though, ford wins on all fronts- price, performance, and quality.

i can respect a good car as much as the next guy but anyone who is influenced or impressed with you based on the kind of car you drive isn't worth the rubber on the tires of it...

No it isn't, not a single European car manufacturer will use hard plastics throughout anymore.

Having said that I like the Mustang :upsidedow

where's rochard

Not sure how a throwing a car round the track comparison test relates to real life ownership and usage.

And taste in cars is very country specific too.

no, it isn't what? certainly you aren't trying to say bmw isn't a luxury brand.

sup meta.. so if u had that kinda money, like $60k, ud get a Merc instead?

grandma's car-

http://imgs.worldcarfans.com/2010/8/...3614030426.jpg

I agree, you can't compare them with pictures. That's why I suggest you go drive a new Mustang. First of all, the new Mustang has the same Polyurethane foam, as you can see in this close up picture.

The material above it is brushed aluminum. Also, as you can see there are no gaps between panels.

Ford also made a big deal about refinement back last year when they redesigned the Mustang.

They claim the GT emits 69 decibels of noise while cruising at 70 mph. There were some pictures posted earlier, but they should the amount of insulation and padding they added to eliminate noise and bring the quality level up to it's import rivals. There are no loose plastics or cheesy things rattling and shaking. This isn't 1965.

Like I said the M3 is a more refined car, but again, not because it's a BMW, but because it's $30,000 more. The M3 is also a superior car, again for obvious reasons. However, for the money the new Mustang is one awesome machine in my opinion. Not everyone has $63,000 to spend on a car, (me being one of those people).

Fucking hope not, she was dangerous enough in her Honda Civic before we made her get rid of it :Oh crap

:1orglaugh :thumbsup

ok well

no thanks these are the same guys imo who are washed up losers and get a harley to get some attention.

BMW drivers are wannabes who wish they were balling. so they go buy a BMW and try to explain to everyone how high class it is. they dont drive a BMW because they are "enthusiasts". they drive it so they can say "hey look at me in my chick car BMW over $50k im such a baller".

there is a certain mystique that comes along with being a BMW driver. like having a second stickshift in your ass as you cruise around in $300 shades in reality struggling to pay the mortgage.

hell i dont even like mustangs very much. but if i had to choose id rather drive a car built for a man.

the fact is you cannot say BMW is not for women. their entire line is built for them.

look in a restaurant for the guy with the overpriced tacky flowered shirt, expensive shades, short, and wearing pointed dress shoes and you have found your typical guy who drives a BMW.

i love being on meta's ignore list. i can make him look even more retarded than he does on his own and he doesn't even know it. llololololololol

merc is class. the 2 lines are not even comparable.

Did you see which post I was answering?

He was comparing interiors :

".....it has no more plastic than any other import or domestic in it's price range."

Europeans cars in any price range don't use so much hard plastics. Polyurethane foam is the norm.

You own one and feel butt hurt or you want to turn this into another EU vs US thread, either way doesn't bother me, I like both cars.

you quoted my comment.

Hmm. Seems to be a big price difference here unless the $63,000 is plus taxes.

M3 Coupé OTR Price £53,275 = $82,335

Appears to be about £35,000 for the Mustang from an importer = $54,103

Even for £35k there is a lot of choice of other things about if you want a sporty car and aren't a brand snob.

:thumbsup:thumbsup:thumbsup

http://www.autoforspeed.com/wp-conte...bmw-m3-gts.jpg

That thing will be laying down some serious track numbers. Should shave off a couple seconds off their regular production M3.

Ford recently announced their answer to it, the new Boss 302.

They claim it will lay down 1.03G of lateral grip!

http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/5...s302engine.jpg

Factory equipped with a lap timer
http://www.caranddriver.com/var/ezfl...cd_gallery.jpg

Recaro racing seats, factory x-brace
http://www.caranddriver.com/var/ezfl...cd_gallery.jpg

What's gonna help it pull 1.03gs with regular street tires
http://www.caranddriver.com/var/ezfl...cd_gallery.jpg

7500rpm rev limiter
http://www.caranddriver.com/var/ezfl...cd_gallery.jpg

http://a.imageshack.us/img23/9564/blackandsiver.jpg

Oh wow $54,000 for a Mustang..:helpme That's more than what the 550hp supercharged GT500 costs here. It might be a lot more expensive for you guys living out of the States. Here the base price starts at $30,495 USD. With the premium package and brembo brakes it's $33,685 USD.

http://www.mustangblog.com/blog/1041...-msrp-is-30495

Base price for an M3 is $55,000 and goes up to $67,000
http://www.motortrend.com/new_cars/04/bmw/m3/index.html

As tested in this article there was a $30,000 difference assuming you lived in the states. :thumbsup

Your comparing a Mustang worth $30k to a BMW worth twice as much; That seems fair. Yet these two cars have the exact same numbers. Do the math.

If your stupid enough to pay twice as much for the same car, only to loose most of that value the moment you drive it off the lot, well, you don't look nearly as smart.

I remember when BMW in the 1980s - First they were the status symbol of the new yuppie, then became the laughing stock because everyone had one and they were a dime a dozen.

How is the BMW better? Does it have power windows and power locks? Power seats, power mirrors? Seems to me like these items that once luxury features are fucking standard on even Hyundais. Leather seats? I've never understood leather seats. Pain in the ass to maintain, they crack, they are cold in the winter and hot in the summer.

If you show up to a business meeting in a BMW the first thought that comes to my mind is "pussy" and "not too bright". Show up in a nice new Volkswagon and I'll like you a lot more.

more than a couple, 17 seconds quicker around the 'ring, i believe.

was going to post a couple vids of the new boss 302 a bit earlier, they are also doign a laguna seca version of it, so here ya go

http://a.imagehost.org/0589/mustang3.jpg

http://www.gotbroken.com/wp-content/...ew-588x422.jpg

These are the best close ups I can find. :thumbsup

Fixed it for ya. :thumbsup While I think the BOSS will be awesome for the track junkies, I'm not really a huge fan of the styling. Way over the top for my tastes.

As for the competition M3, 17 seconds is HUGE..I bet it's going to be a complete animal.

i have a 2010 bmw m3 and i love it, have driven hundreds of cars but there is something about the me that just rocks

It might interest you to know that "shit American engineering" was used by Rolls-Royce for over fifty years in their use of the venerable HydraMatic transmission, fitted first to the Silver Dawn and running through the Shadow series. Ditto Jaguar and Daimler. Mercedes Benz trannies for years were licensed under HydraMatic patents.

Mercedes-Benz also still uses AMERICAN produced leather in their cars because the Connoly method, developed in the UK is shit and leads to short leather life.

Most all-wheel drive systems on cars and trucks are based on more "shit American engineering" going back to the F.W.D. patents of the 1920s.

The now ubiquitous "hemi" design was perfected by Chrysler Corporation in the immediate post-WW II period.

The monocoque or unit construction body was initially put to the test by yet more "shit American engineering" from the Budd Body Company in the 1930s working with Chrysler in the from of the first true unit construction car, the famed Chrysler Airflow. Every single car and truck manufacturer now uses unit bodies in some form. The Airflow is also regarded as the first production auto to be crash-tested for safety.

Auato safety glass was first fitted to certain Stutz automobiles in the late 1920s, "shit American engineering" pioneered by Pittsburg Paint And Glass.


"Shit American engineering" also showed up in early 1950s Rambers, Hudsons, Ford and Nash autos when they were fitted with safety seat belts, although the belts were rejected by the public.

British manufacturers who sought power with reliability for their cars used engines developed through "shit American engineering". Allard used Lincoln V-12s, Ford and Mercury flatheads, 313 Olds, 331 Cadillac, 331, 354 and 392 Chrysler hemis. Jensen stabbed 331 Hemis, 361, 383, 413 and 440 B and RB engines in to their high-dollar customs. Railton in the 30s and 40s used Hudson straight-eights.

In France, "shit American engineering" was incorporated into the Facel Facellia, the Facel-Vega and the Facel Excellence, which used again 331 and 354 hemis, 361s, 383s, 413s and 440s.

Monteverdi used 413s, 440s and even a few 426 Hemis in cars; more products of "shit American engineering".

The McPherson strut was perfected by Ford Motor Company and first put into production in the 1949 Ford, although is somewhat modified form.

Bendix-based fuel injection systems are used throughout the world.

The overhead valve V-8 engine, the mainstay of world-wide production for years was first used on a production basis by Chevrolet in 1914.

During WW II, Rolls-Royce developed the famed Merlin aircraft engine but could not get any reliability due to typical British over-complication, so the designs and dies were sent to.......Packard in the USA such that a bit of "shit American engineering" could be dropped on it, with over 200 parts being eliminated as superfluous, a decent supercharger built, cooling improved and when the PACKARD re-design was put into service, British warbirds stopped dropping out of the sky due to engine failure. This engine is also known as the Allison........................................

I probably shouldn't mention the Iso Grifo which used Corvette 327s, nor should I discuss the AC Cobra, which used 260, 289 and 427 "shit American designed" engines from Ford or the cars of the British Monarchy, Daimlers, which used in the 1930s the "shit American designed" Knight sleeve-valve engines.

Yep, lots of "shit American engineering" out there that no one ever wanted or used.

Sally.

The other great part of the new Mustang is that giving it some real performance numbers kills your already shitty warranty:

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/08/23/f...w-5-0-liter-v/

"The base package provides 525 horsepower and 470 pound-feet torque and comes with a 12-month/12,000-mile warranty when installed by a Ford or Lincoln dealer."

you are mixing up your mustangs. the car we are discussing is the mass production boss 302. moreover, you are referring to the warranty for an upgrade.

american top gear is fucking boring... british original is a thousand times better...
as far as the cars go
EVERYONE would always prefer the m3 over the mustang, assuming you can afford one

i wasn't aware they re-edit TG for americans. Either way, whilst i find the bbc america show to be very entertaining, it's not to be taken seriously.

both are nice cars, but the m3 is a class above the mustang

if you show up in the m3 the thought that comes to my mind is 'crooked hat jerk off' :2 cents:

if you show up in a mustang my thought is 'wonder why he didn't get a vette :winkwink:

Absolutely love the whine of a supercharged car :thumbsup

Hi Rochard, nice of you to show up. :thumbsup

I think it's time you sold that 03 Cobra of yours and got yourself a 2011 GT, (that is if you're still a fan of Mustangs). I drove one a couple weeks ago and it's worlds better. The interior quality, refinement, interior noise levels, handling, braking, engine noise, transmission, shifter, available options, basically everything short of the forged motor and supercharger. :)

As for why the BMW is still superior, I could name a few LOGICAL reasons. Although the Mustang is tuned to do everything the BMW can all while having the same options; the BMW is still more refined.

It has absolutely nothing to do with "plastics" or fitment of panels or any other ridiculous assumptions people make about all American cars..

It has everything to do with R&D and production costs though. This is a $63,000 car, almost twice that of the Mustang, it has a lot more R&D and money put into producing them.

The M3 is built on a superior chassis than the Mustang. It has an independent rear suspension, a variable differential that adapts to changing conditions to give full control and traction, coilovers and the fact nearly the entire front axle is made out of aluminum. A lot of hi-tech, very expensive aluminum suspension parts and twin pivot steering geometry as well.

That combined with the IRS out back make the M3 a much easier car to drive. The professional driver made it clear that the M3 was easier to push to it's limit than the Mustang; he even clearly demonstrated it while driving both.

Obviously, with a $30,000 base price no car, whether American, German or Japanese can offer all of that technology but I'm disappointed in the few true car enthusiasts who can't respect how much the Mustang offers.

I wish it was $63K over here!

Definitely BMW M3. :)