And guess what people PORN in general especially on the net is viewed as shady by mainstream people. and mainstream people control the banks.

BRANDS, as the liable parties to the financial institutions (or aggregators) who acquire their transactions have several challenges to hurtle in order to maintain their processing, especially those who have direct relationships with acquiring banks.

1st, the BRAND has to maintain website compliance, PCI compliance and then manage to an aggressive VISA/MC mandated domestic chargeback threshold (it's more lenient internationally).

Further, the BRAND has to manage their affiliate traffic. Not every affiliate simply "get's traffic to the front door" as stated here earlier, but some engage in various sketchy business practices.

Rogue affiliates who create chargebacks for the BRANDS add to an already significant challenge for the BRAND who is struggling to make sure that their chargebacks don't exceed their thresholds. An account closed for chargebacks can put a BRAND out of business or at the very least increase their cost for processing by having to move to an aggregator at a much increased cost (sometimes double their processing costs with a direct merchant account).

I spend a significant amount of my work day helping clients and potential clients clean up these issues to either maintain or obtain solid processing solutions.

Thank you! This guy knows exactly what i mean. and the way you explained it is 20x better then i could have. :)

Thanks, Meta. But I do think that there is plenty of room for affiliate players in the industry. The BRANDS need to do a better job of managing, vetting and reviewing their affiliates.

Poor affiliate management is definitely effects the overall performance.

Totally agreed. I wish i was wrong, but it's just the climate we are in.

Affiliates will always be around but i see things going extremely private over the next couple years.

I'm going to rip you a new asshole, just because I'm bored.

Actually, I thought you had just curled up, crawled into a basement conber and just quietly died somewhere. You've always been a confrontational piece of shit. None of the garbage you have spewed over the few years you've been a member has been relevant. Its all about you. Oh, Metaman! Will you sign my 'taint? I worship the ground you hover ever so slightly over. Dude, you are an embarrassment to this board.

Tell your mommy to get you a glass of water, and take your Ritilan. We're gona have a Palaver.

Most affiliates are idiots, granted. Its a hard job, this online marketing thing. Sometimes I think to myself, "Would I rather make $50k a year doing this, or should I lease a general store and try to cough out a living selling cigarettes and milk?" Hard decision. I choose internet marketing. It works for me. You might be better off selling Lay's chips and Gummy Bears. I only say this because you cry. Like a girl. And crying girls do well as cashiers.

I know that this board is full of millionaires like you, Metaman. I also realize that anyone making 30k-50k is a loser.

In all honesty, though, this is the best job on the face of the fucking earth. Unemployment rate=zero. If you can manage to haul your fat "comic book guy" ass out of bed and be civil with your future superiors, you might have a chance at survival. There are a LOT of people at GFY who will happily lend you a hand. And maybe - just maybe - one of the people that currently makes no money may just fluke out and start pulling in huge dollars in a few years. Who's to say? Not YOU!

Speaking of making millions, God knows you haven't. You've been here since 2003 (I think that was the figure posted. I may be wrong because I've never read anything your fat basement-dwelling fingers have typed...) and you're STILL insulting newcomers.

Maybe one day I'll actually argue why affilates aren't irrelevant. Hint: For every brogram that shuts its doors to affiliates, there will be ten niched sites that want my traffic.

That's not even fucking English. That is some random beating off dialect. I am not a program owner and I am not processing any sales. Neither are you. But at least I'm not typing with one hand while I pound my pud and hit random letters on my keyboard.

Zub zub zub? What relevance do you have to anyone who processes affiliate sales? Maybe you do. I don't know. For all I know, you're the head of scrubbing at CCBill. I have an itch that tells me you're just a fat dude who likes to bitch. The only thing you control is nothing - including your own irrelevant opinions.

Why the fuck would you care whether some company you have no control over can process credit cards? You. Are. A. Fucking. Retard. Say it again, bitch.

You have no control over the processing of anything ANY affiliate might choose to sell. Shut the fuck up, you fat stupid idiot. Shut your mouth and start blindly hitting your screen, your keyboard, your dog. Close your eyes and flail blindly like the baby you are.

Nothing you say has any relevance. You control nothing. You influence nothing. Fuck off.

I can't believe I just wasted this much time responding to three of your "paragraphs".

You have the entire world figured out. Unfortunately, you got it wrong. Nothing you typed here has any relevance. Go back to 2003, fuck head. I'm more interested in what the noobs have to say.

garce you're sooooooo pussy whipped over me it's not even funny.

Lets hear more about how you don't bash people but then start threads photo shopping peoples faces bashing them. LOL.

what did you answer other then using the word "bitch, mom and fuck"? LOL
yep you disproved me by using as many swear words in 1 paragraph as possible.

even billers agree with me. You're a nobody affiliate and you're pissed you're getting shoved around.

also please point out where i said im a millionaire? LOL too funny. baby got mad.

can someone translate your post?

I changed and adapted years ago to cut off my affiliates the amount of money I made from them wasnt worth the stress. now i train my associates to think like me and make money plus they are alot more loyal and grateful

Attacking affiliates is fucked up. Go fuck yourself.

lol this thread is awesome

Garce owned your ass metaman... hahahaha

I dont come here much but all the threads ive seen with metaman talking is just GARBAGE.

What sites do you actually run? I would like to see why you think your such hot shit.

At this time I get people to the front door of a program. If they do not like how I get them to the front door tell me what I am doing wrong and I will fix it or they can fire me. Period.

If programs want to do away with affiliates then that is their choice. I say in the long term they will regret it. One program that says they are #1 nude site in the world looks to be expanding their affiliate program I wonder why they are doing that!

Well anyways This is an open forum that anyone can join. I am posting in a thread that is called fucking around and Program discussions. I was entering into a conversation about opinions on a subject. Not an expert panel of discussions just throwing thoughts back and forth. When I was called out and stomped on. That seems to be the norm at GFY. If you are a newbie you are scum for some of the old grumps to kick around.

Well old grumps I have this to say. Ya all do not know everything Like ya think ya do. If you all were experts the adult business might not be in such bad shape. But I will voice my opinion here as I feel I can ad to a conversation. And for the some that want to get all puffed up and mad, Go Fuck Yourself....

If you had a billboard on the moon that could be read from earth you would be the rich. An internet business is much the same. If you create a place in the vastness of cyberspace that many come by regularly then you will have done just as a billboard on the moon. And people will pay to share that spot in all of cyberspace. That's my business plan. Period.

Ya all have a good day I have to go to work...

Talk about an useless argument...

Agreed, awesome thread!!! Like with any business you have to first get lucky with getting exposure so you can be successful, then comes more hard-work managing and growing the biz and then the last, most impotant part is still innovating, coming up with new ideas to stay on top and adapting your biz for the current market/times... it's that last bit that bites people in the ass I think! ;-)

Well said fine sire.
:thumbsup

It always cracks me up how people admit, especially in this industry and on this forum, and more a less BRAG about stealing software, music, movies, and anything they can get their hands on in regards to the internet. Then when THEY are stolen from, get all high and mighty playing the high horse card.

Pure comedy.
:1orglaugh

all coming from morons that have nothing to do with adult anyway. go spew this shit on digital point.

This seems to sum up the happenings of the last 18 months.
:2 cents:

This industry is full of mercenaries. It always has been. Always will be.

The only difference is a few more are getting exposed as their house of cards collapse. No worries though sport. They will be back in a few month with a new dancing chicken, and then Sheeple will flock to them all over again.

It has worked for a decade, and will keep working.

:2 cents:

ya he owned me by not disproving what is fact lol.

you people can keep running lemonade stands. I'm giving you all a fair warning about the state of this industry. It sucks but i got mine a couple years ago and it changed my life. Literally changed it.

You don't have to listen to me. But if you cannot look around and understand what is going on there is no hope for you.

you, garce and all other affiliates (including myself) can beat our drums as much as we want but it doesnt change anything.

I decided to get ORGANIZED with my business. It's the only thing that is going to save people out of these times. You can choose to look the other way or not that is really up to you. the days of lemonade stands are gone.

as for my sites. why would i tell you? i would rather have you people not listen to anything i say. Watch from the shadows and rip all your traffic when no one is left.

sounds like a better plan to me. the more i speak truth the more people do the opposite on here. it rules.

Agreed JD, classic!

Dosn't have to go "extremely private" Programs need to put more effort into affiliate program management. Fewer affiliates under a stricter regime. Details on how this should work is still to be worked out. During the last five years I have been denied an affiliate account (only) 2 times and you know what? I now really respect those guys because at the time I didn't have anything to bring to the table. They where managing their brand.

Not that it matters but my opinion of you just went up. Peace!

:1orglaugh

:1orglaugh

:1orglaugh

:1orglaugh

It is indeed sire.
:winkwink:

Which is part of the reason the Adult Net is in the shitter. For every sponsor ripping off customers there are 100s of affiliates sending him traffic because the sponsor is ripping off customers to pay them more than the next guy.

Stopped reading at this point because the posted is clueless. Affiliates don't get paid until a sign up happens. That's an entirely different thing to not costing money. Go think about it.

***********************

With posts like that and others you can see the problems of this industry. It can be blamed in short on "Short term greed and thinking." These are some of the ways this industry fucked itself.

1. Putting too much emphasis on getting traffic. And too little emphasis on keeping the customer satisfied.

This could be seen from the early days of people buying content for a site as cheap as they could and spending the bulk of their money promoting the site. That attitude still exists today. Prices paid for the actual product that keep people buying are too low. The result is "Pulp Porn". Repetitive garbage with little innovation and imagination.

You need something worth buying to keep selling it to a repeat buying audience.

2. Short term greed.

For every sponsor short changing or ripping off customers there are 100s if not 1,000s of affiliates sending him traffic. They bare a lot of the responsibility for customers not trusting us.

Even today I saw a thread about a Dating site being sued for misleading (conning) customers. The attitude of many was the customer is easy prey. Seems so long as the affiliate earns there's no problem. Truth of the problem can be seen in your stats.

3. Short term thinking.

Few in this industry think further ahead than next months paycheck. Even big earners don't, not only those who have to worry about paying the rent next month.

Throwing up increasing amounts of free porn was self defeating. It used to be said loudly a few years ago about TGPs giving too much away. Seemed no one was listening. Nearly every sponsor has put maximum effort in getting as much free porn on the Net as fast as they could. Even now I see Chameleon has a tool to automate Tube submissions. It's a race to see who can load the Internet with the most free porn.

Few did anything to combat Tube sites 2-3 years ago, even though it was clear they would ruin the industry. Many affiliates kept sending traffic to sponsors who were advertising on Tube sites. If affiliates in big numbers had cut off the traffic to these guys Tubes would of withered. They could afford to run because companies like AFF were advertising and affiliates were still ending AFF traffic. Now look where you are.

I know traffic is important, but not to the level we place it. Many of the problems we face today are due to the attitude of traffic being the be all and end all. All industries need to promote and sell their products, few spend as much as we do on that promotion.

:thumbsup

In business there is a cost for everything, that's a given. But it has been pointed out in this thread that some programs maybe be eliminating affiliates and going to just in house promotion. I cannot see where that will be cheaper in the long run.

1. Putting too much emphasis on getting traffic. And too little emphasis on
keeping the customer satisfied.

When affiliate marketing started was that not the founding principal. To have affiliates promote and increase traffic to a program. So that the program could spend more of it's efforts on building a better program to keep customers. And if what you just said in #1 above is true that too little emphasis was put on keeping the customer happy. Then how is getting rid of affiliates going to improve the success of a program?

I do not have an extensive knowledge of the adult business. But I do have years of experience operating a business. And the basic business principles I have followed over the years do not seem to apply to many in the adult business.

What is really ironic is when I clicked the post message button just now I had to re-login. Well this is ironic because there was a big ad from adult.com for Affiliates. Interesting..

paul has disconnected from reason and reality a long time ago. his insights into the adult business are just as valid as a homeless guy eating his snot at burger king.

Yes and getting customers is a valid investment in all businesses. But when getting those customers costs too much and and needs of the marketing section are to the detriment of customers it's going to end up badly. This can be clearly seen in the level of content quality and ripping off customers. And other things stated.

Not quite sure what you meant here. Here's my reply to what I think you're saying.

Over the 12 years I've been doing business I've been asked many times to shoot custom. Often for ridiculously low amounts. This has led to sites full of content shot too fast, on low budgets and by people who weren't skilled at porn. So no sponsors often didn't put the needs of the customer first.

If getting rid of out sourced affiliates leads to cheaper marketing, then maybe the sponsor will have more to spend on what's inside the site. Though I doubt it now as many are doing it now to stay afloat. What ever the reason, the fact that they are moving to in house traffic generation shows it's cheaper and more effective.

They do apply. In the past the rising traffic numbers combined with the customer having few options led to people thinking the don't.

Another expense for getting affiliates before a single sign up arrives.

Which means the adult industry is booming and we have nothing to worry about.

Or you're a complete idiot, as the adult industry isn't booming and many are struggling to survive.

Now I wonder which one is right? :1orglaugh

What ever people say the industry is in trouble and no one seems to have a clue how to put it right.

I don't mind a little herd thinning. I've weathered every shitstorm that's ever blown through this business, and I'll weather this one as well.


I've been saying it from day one, that that is one of the largest if not the largest bane this industry faces.

Well Put!

And thus the open sharing of thoughts on the matter in forums such as this. Is healthy for everyone.