Nice spin.....

This will hit US press by next week... doing an interview today for a major news service.

@ Nathan,

Why are you hiding nathan?

Why don't you explain to us how you verify that the uploader verify the models age in the video as stated in your 2257?

And show me where your recently high budget produced full length film on pornhub please as I ask you in this thread:

https://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=987082&page=5

Are you running now because you have no obvious explanation? That's a nice admission of guilt.

Well I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

People figured out how to take advantage of the giving away more porn for free to get more signups themselves but I honestly think there are less overall signups to go around than 5 years ago, even 2 years ago.

However I will concede that a person in your position with your resources would know more of the technicals than I do, if you say there are just as many signups being done today as there were 2 or 3 years ago before tubes rose, I'll take your word for it, and I can only hope you would invite me to your office and show me what I need to do to get a 1/20th of the signups you got coming in without resorting to a tube setup ;)

I've already done and proved all 3 of those things wrong. And we are in the middle of a record sales month of all times here. Nobody rebills better.
I love it when people "theorize" on what's "going to happen" with absolutely nothing to back it up.

Boy, I sure hope for Nathan/Fabian's sake that it doesn't take off on the news channels and then lead to an investigation and then lead to pornhub's U.S. traffic being cut off. Though I'm sure he doesn't really need the U.S.

I just hope that doesn't happen... :upsidedow

http://www.stevelightspeed.com/jordan.gif <---- she never gets tired huh?

thats never gonna happen.

gleem, another interesting fact, which noone again will believe... only a FRACTION of our sales come from our tubes.

I just know that I have seen many programs fall, and many rise at the same time. So I see no reason to believe there are less sales.

This discussion existed when TGPs were there, it existed when MGPs were there and now it exists and the tubes are blamed... All I am saying is, always putting the blame on someone else is the easy way out. Other companies manage to thrive in this economy and under these circumstances, so why can't you? Can't really blame that on tubes in my opinion.

Robbie: "blah blah" ... I am shivering with fear about steve's torrent lawsuits...

Interesting!

years ago one could name a dozen programs or more doing 1000+ sales a day, now you can almost count on your hands and toes ones that do more than 100 per day.

I f I had the time I would dig up those threads on here in 2001 where I posted, and others did. indeed, same discussion each time new site models come up with to give out more porn with. I am in the camp that always says less free porn is better for sales.

It's almost like someone standing next to a Dunkin Donuts store door giving out all you can eat free donuts and coffee. Sure some will still want *some* dunkin' donuts brand donuts/coffee, but the majority just wanted a decent cup of coffee & donut. Those who were unsatisfied with the taste of the free stuff will go in to buy Dunkin's version but they will buy alot less since they are full already.

Come on you don't really believe that right?

I think the difference is I see an exciting money making opportunity were as you see it as a negative.

Actually Roald, back in the mid 1990's we were thanking God for the Clinton administration because it didn't fuck with our free site business model.

When Bush won the election we were scared shitless. John Ashcroft (Bush's attorney general and a religious nut) was chomping at the bit to get rid of porn on the internet. And the first thing they would have targeted would have been FREE SITES. We are the ones making it available to everybody....which they would have tied to kids watching porn.

We knew then...and in fact had several get togethers with the top traffic free sites in the world at the time...that we were ONE law away from being shut down.

And of course we had the contingency plan of selling people a lifetime "membership" for $5 or whatever just to keep them coming to the site. But we knew that even with that tiny entrance fee...we would lose 95% of our traffic.

The only thing that saved us quite frankly was 9-11. The govt. turned it's attention from us to "terrorism"

But it doesn't change the fact that you, me, and Pornhub are still just ONE law away from being shut down in the U.S.

Surely that's something that you guys have discussed before? It's not as big a fear to me as it was in the late 1990's, but it's still there. I HOPE it don't happen. But I've felt for the last couple of years that with tubes and torrents putting out entire scenes for free with no real age verification...that it's going to end up destroying all of us in the end via new govt. legislation.

You are saying 2 diffrent things now. The above I understand.

Your first comment wasn't about free porn in general, at least the way I read it it was about pornhub being cut off due to Steve his action.

The new batch of right-of-the-right righties coming down the pike, are as anti-porn as they get! The new Delaware lunatic is ANTI-MASTURBATION for Pete's sake!

And some of the idiots on this board are eating it up and cheering them on!

WTF?!

I was trying to make the point that if the media in the U.S. picks up on this...it'll become the new "flavor of the month" for idiots like Bill O'Reilly to "investigate" and then politicians will pick up on it as a way to gain votes from the religious right and then a law could happen.

That was my intent. Sorry if I was misunderstood.

I am honestly confused...
robbie, now you are saying if free sites go away the industry is dead?

gleem,
your donut example... in my opinion its a bit different...
I had this huge donut story almost typed up, but it got rather complicated and silly in the end ;) so...

what I think is, there is two ways through town, one that goes by the dunkin donuts and one that is not. The fact that there is someone outside of the dunkin donuts store giving away donuts has made more people walk along that route, way more... and people opened up shop all around... this caused two things:
More people bought donuts, simply because of the mass of people. But also, it was split up among various places...

Your 1000 sales a day comment is true and false. First of all, there still are plenty programs that do 1000 sales a day. But most importantly, I think you are wrong with that many programs years ago... Also, 10 years ago, there were maybe 25-50 big programs. Today, there are probably 400 NATS programs alone, another 250 MPA programs, and 1000 CCBill programs... ON TOP of the still 10 or so big players...

The sales had to be divided somehow..

Brother, you've been confused a lot to hear you talk. lol

I don't think you're confused one bit. I think you're just doing what makes you money. Never said a bad thing to you about that. I like making money. I just get tickled to see you pretend you don't understand some stuff.

For instance, if it were me...I'd just get all of Lightspeed's stuff the fuck off of my tube site. Wouldn't hurt you one iota, but it would save you a lot of grief. But you like to play so go right ahead and play.

nice work steve! it was just a matter of time...

What I don't think a lot of people understand is that people are like sheep. Especially when they have their dick in their hand.

The average porn surfer doesn't know what a tube site is yet, he never used newsgroups, he never used password trading forums or the IRC. He is a newb by all accounts. He doesn't even know shit about the computer he has been using for years. He doesn't even know (File) Explorer exists. He cannot do squat to his camera pics without the software that came with his camera including moving those pics to his computer.

So when you take that guy and you sue enough people in his spot he says, fuck those tube thingies and this is why I don't even have torrent software installed... You know those hackers? They created that software and it can really harm your computer!

So once Steve's lawsuits get traction and make it to the evening news a lot of paranoid fucks are going to uninstall that software and start paying again. It is just the way things work.

I have to disagree. There are far more than 20 programs doing 100+ signups a day.The quality guys are still doing very well ie Twistys, FTV, Nubiles, Met Art, etc.

How many of us "innocent ones" were caught in the "give everyone's content away for free" "approach" ?

C'mon Nathan, too easy.

I disagree. Going after the end user is a HUGE mistake. We have to win them back not alienate them. Btw I think Steve has said over and over he's not going after the end user.

Just want to add that surfers are way smarter than you think. You know 5 or 10 years ago it was true most people didn't know how to do shit on their computer. But now it's part of their lives and has been for some time. They know how to use it. Obviously there is a portion of users that have no clue but they are decreasing in size every day.

@nathan, I actually ran out and got donuts & coffee after all that talk about donuts LOL


@shap, ok, my 20 doing 100 was a bit low.. but still, I think the signups are less industry wide than they were before due to free porn, AND billing issues.

Yes NATS/MPA did make it easier to setup a program, maybe you guys are right, more programs doing more joins = less per program. You both see much bigger stats than me and have bro's in high places that know a shitload more than my bro's, then again both of you guys run big tube sites so I dunno if you are being completely honest or just taking one side of the argument because you have to.


Either way, time to make the donuts!

http://orangefizz.net/wp-content/upl.../03/donuts.jpg

oh, I maaaade the donuts..

If we are to believe 80% or 70% of your content is uploaded on pornhub is by content owners then it would follow that this content would have the domain in as a watermark and a banner or a link underneath it so the viewer can go straight to the content owners site.

So I went to your site and checked 20 of the videos on the top of your front page.

18 were full length.
17 had no content owners domain or any indication who created it.
3 did and of them 2 were just the titles at the beginning.

No where did I see a link to the content owner, only a link to the paid part of pornhub. So can you explain why these people give you content. Is it out of the good of their heart or are you lying?

Also I repeat YOU CARE NOTHING ABOUT RIPPING OFF YOUR SURFERS. Because to support Pornhub you sell them penis enlargements and dating sites. Which we all know are a con. So please no more crying about the wrong guy might get sued and lose money. You rip off your surfers so you care nothing about them.

Nathan will meet his demise with Sam and Daniel.

Guaranteed.

I just tell it how I see it. I think what has happened is a few things.

The guys that were doing 25 to 75 sales a day are HURTING BAD! Many are down to <10 a day.

Many of the 100s and 1000s of sales a day guys were shady. They were doing so thanks to dirty cross sells, banging cards etc. With tighter billing practices in place those sales have disappeared in many cases.

Is the industry doing less sales now than before? I would have to say yes. If you do not include cams and dating I can't see how the industry does more. I think for a while (maybe 3 years ago) the sales starting spreading amongst more companies and at that point there wasn't a drop but a spreading of sales. Now? It's a drop. No question about it in my opinion.

agree, have heard this from many programs that were in that niche.


There it is, the industry is doing less paysite sales in your opinion than 3 years ago, and only 2 things have changed in the last 3 years, billing crackdown AND the rise of the Tube model.

Really? Only two things have changed? Come on man. How about a little thing called the WORLD ECONOMY! Not to mention the rise of mainstream web. Online Gaming has exploded, Social Media has exploded.

People are hurting financially and have more free options (both in adult and non adult) to spend their time online. Tubes didn't help anything. But they aren't the only reason. Anybody who says they are looks as ridiculous as the person who says they haven't hurt.

Good point, economy is down, thought we were recession proof, sales didn't get hurt the last few dips, but this time banks were directly affected and cutting CC limits down, got one I don't use much cut from 25k to $500 with no notice and never having been late.

But I throw that in with the billing side of things ie customers being less billable than before. For example look at your initial charge & rebill success rates now vs. 3 years ago. In my books that's 20% less willingly billable people than we could have billed 3 years ago.

exactly, and it has now become a necessary evil.

I've heard from friends that own brick and mortar businesses that we are lucky our price point is $25. One friend owns a clothing store and they have seen a HUGE rise in declined credit cards most of the declines are in the $75 to $200 purchase price range.

Manwin sounds nervous...very nervous.

I've been around long enough to know nobody in this industry is ever nervous. The only time they are nervous is when they've lost it all. So I doubt they are nervous.

Steve how much are you asking people to settle for?

FWIW, one of Nathan's minions hit me up cold via ICQ yesterday. He wanted to discuss advertising on my network...

...if they're hitting up small fry like me you have to wonder what's up.

BTW, I told him to go fuck himself. :321GFY

Thats for the lawyers to work out. I think they are looking for around 2k each.

:2 cents::2 cents:

I think it's funny those idiot tube site owners claim no responsibility for all the illegal full length content on their sites. Try uploading to their tube site, it must first be approved before it goes live. 99.999% of all the illegal content was uploaded by the owners of the site, the other .001% were uploaded by others and then approved by the owners. :1orglaugh

NetDork you are not a smart human being - but I gotta say this was mostly true.

Paul,

just went through the first 3 rows on phub. Obviously under "Recent Videos" not "Being watched":
Out of 15 videos, video 2, 3, 5, 7, 11, 13, 14, 15 were all uploaded via branded studio accounts... so around 55% of those top 3 rows.

So not sure where you get your numbers from or what you look for...

Slutboat, oh yes, I am shivering in fear...

Qbert, right, almost broke here, no more money to buy real traffic... all sunk into hosting costs :/

Manwin please buy my tube site - I'm only asking 5 Million - thats lunch money to you guys!

If you buy my site I promise I will:

Upload stolen 30 minute videos (with the watermarks cropped off) 18 hours a day 7 days a week.

I will never tell anyone that Fabian wears a suit made entirely from the labia of runaway teens.

I will come to your offices and each day at noon and grind up live puppies in a meat grinder for your favorite Pomeranian Protein Punch.

I will even let you felch my hermaphrodite gardner.

Deal?

sweet if half settle that would 1 million per 1000 defendants.

A similar thing was being done over here in the UK by a games company. They were sending letters to people who had down loaded games and asking them to pay an amount of money or face going to court. It ended up being all over the news cause people who had never downloaded the game were geting letters. One of the guys went as far as taking his PC to a data recovery specialist to prove he had never downloaded the game and ended up counter suing along with the people who were also inncocent. It also hurt the lawyers who were sending out the letters.
Its a dangerous game to play and yes they were making money from it untill it all blew up in thier faces.... I would say just be carefull Steve

thanks for the tip

What we are doing is different. We are actually downloading our own content from the torrents, and recording who served it to us. That proves they both downloaded, and are resharing our files illegally.

The system also does lots of other things to eliminate false positives, and every ip generated is reviewed by hand before anything is done. They've done their homework and learned from other's previous mistakes.

yeah the new laws over here where piracy is concered with mainstream is the actual ISP can shut down and ban your connection after you have been warned. Not sure if this applies to porn though

That's the part that gets me. they have to claim no knowledge to be protected under Safe Harbor.

Safe Harbor Requirements
The DMCA, however, does not grant blanket protection from copyright infringement liability. The service provider may not take advantage of the DMCA's safe harbor provision if:

1) The service provider has actual knowledge that the material or an activity using the material on the system or network is infringing;

2) The service provider is aware of facts or circumstances from which infringing activity is apparent; or

3) The service provider does not expeditiously remove or disable access to the material upon obtaining such knowledge or awareness of the infringing material.

In addition, if the service provider has the right and ability to control the infringing activity and if the service provider receives a financial benefit directly attributable to the infringing activity, the service provider will not be protected by Section 512 of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act. If the service provider satisfies the above requirements of the DMCA and receives a proper notice of infringing material, the service provider must expeditiously remove or disable access to the material that is claimed to be infringing or to be the subject of infringing activity.

Why not porn? Copyrighted porn or copyrighted christian ebooks, they both have same protection.

Wow. So that means that IF a tube or torrent or any other user upload freesite KNOWS for a fact that something is infringing then it is THEIR responsibility to clean up their own fucking site like the rest of the world?

So if there was a video on a tube site that is say....a Lightspeed vid, and the new owner KNOWS that Steve doesn't have an "account" with him and it was pointed out plainly to him right on this very forum including the URL to the offending vid on the tube site (because you know...the new owner doesn't know who Jordan is or Tawnee...even though he says he knows the online biz real well), then that tube site could actually NOT be protected by the safe harbor anymore?

Is that what you're saying? Damn. It sounds like that is something that hasn't even been worked yet.

There you go Hoss! You caught yourself a nice big fish there.

I agree completely :)

.

I am realy not sure if it covers porn but I do know that they can also ban your ISP for watching illegal porn which includes hardcore BDSM or violent porn whether its simulated or not. They changed the porn laws here in 2008.

I am suprised the US does not do the same thing by banning users from ISPs TBH whether it is working or not I dont know

http://www.guardian.co.uk/artanddesi...ornography-law