interesting comment. I think over saturation is a big part. I knew this was coming down the pipe. I was taught that when a biz makes money, more and more people enter the biz until the biz no longer makes money.

I had a client tell me a few years ago that the 'mom and pop' content producers would probably disappearas well, with the content being produced by large 'entities'. that could still happen and as far as membership sites go I see this as the car manufactures from the early 1900's. all bought up between a few larger companies or merging with some disappearing. life moves on.

BTW: pretty sure the people I shoot for don't suffer from bad billing practices or laziness or low quality. and not considering 'free' full length videos on the tubes a 'factor' is an interesting thought as well. I sell scenes, I don't buy them and the cost has dropped to a more 'normalized' rate..

well have fun swatting fire flies here at GFY :thumbsup

can you hit me with an email pls: sell @ bmbhome dot com

Gleem, I have actually never heard of the stuff you mentioned in the first paragraph. Do you happen to have more info on this? I would love to know since that obviously seems insane...

I know though why Brazzers is being looked at negatively, and I can somewhat understand it. Does not change the fact that, as you said, their actions people claim to know, whether they are true or false, are pre-me. And I have said time and time again, we are making sure our tubes work WITH the industry and not AGAINST. And for the people that claim we are not, just look at for example the amount of sponsored content on the tubes today vs. just 3 months ago. HUGE difference.

Regarding Steve, if what he has said again in this thread just a few minutes ago is correct, then I have no problem at all. I just have a problem with suing torrent downloaders since I think its a tricky business, its dangerous for the industry's image, and it will do more harm than good.

Suing uploaders or the people that actually took the content from steve and started the seed, I have absolutely no problem with and I am completely in agreement with steve (whether he likes hat or not <G>)

I have no idea who your clients are, and I never meant to say everyones content is bad or they are lazy or such...

I understand that you sell scenes and not buy them, but that means you produce them, right? So I guess, either how much actual cost do you have, and/or how much do your clients pay for an exclusive scene?

Hey Steve, how much are you asking to settle for?

The person who gave me insights into the backroom deals is dead, no joke. I took it with a grain of salt since it was all hearsay but it explained why some deals that seemed to make no sense happened.

Your tubes work with the big studio production industry by buying licenses, not so much the online industry for producers making their own paysites... maybe I'm wrong, but the more free you give away the less incentive to buy... same ole' argument I know, but as you know 1:50 was considered average 10 years ago when there was just AVS sites showing 5 - 10 censored nudes on the tour. With the advent of each model that gave away more porn general traffic conversions got worse ... AVS -->TGP -->MGP -->Tubes

Your tubes are the biggest, so doesn't help adult webmasters much, unless I'm missing something.

Now the tube cat is out of the box, there's no way to put it back in, and the adult webmaster industry sees this and now it's a "me-too" deal as a last chance to survive and it's a race to see who can give away the most to get the most traffic. If you do it legally, that's fucking awesome, you are one step better than the illegal ones, but you still caused us small webmasters plenty of harm.



I don't think the industry has any image that can be harmed in this way, we are all just smut peddlers to them, not like people are going to boycott porn.:1orglaugh

then proove us wrong, remove all the content you dont own the rights too, wait, thats 90% of the content.

gleem,

I hear what you are saying, and of course normal affiliates/webmasters do not like us because we have a lot of traffic, hard to compete...

BUT, I very much disagree about the ratio going down because of free content. It was going down because there were more and more surfers online looking and finding it.

10 years ago, a site only had 2000 hits a day, and then 50 sales on that traffic each day... But the amount of traffic is so much higher now, that sales naturally get diluted.

Nathan, rhetorical question, rest of the seeders are not actual pirates?


btw other than ip address ISP may know user's network card and router mac addresses, computer name; when someone actually gets tracked down and if partook action in illegal distribution there will be traces of evidence left in storage media and system resources - unless that storage media is completely destroyed prior. so with serious case most won't be able to get out in such situation that someone from their WiFi ip address downloaded something and not an accused person/s

Exclusive scene, In my case (and I have only ever sold a couple for exclusive use to 1 site with the rights to show it for 6 months exclusive at which time I could use it myself on Extremehole... in other words I maintained full ownership of it.) 1500 bucks for 30 minutes and about 200 photos to go with it.

When I shoot with models they got paid 1000 per day or 150/hour which ever was cheaper for me. Factor in that I would normally have to rent a place to shoot, get there (normally hundreds of miles) Then I have all the normal costs, tapes equipment lighting props DILDOS (I have about 60k in rubber dildos alone) Lube (bought wet literally by the gallon) Fucking machines, outfits, etc.

The scenes actually cost me quite a bit to produce. I can't pound out 5+ scenes a day... hell it's hard to get 2 really good ones, (try stuffing something the size of a football in one of your holes for a few hours and see how long you last)

Top all this with the fact I can't just walk down the street and find girls that can do this type of penetration.

My saving grace was the fact that I was married to the main feature of the site and we where able to produce a ton of content together over the years for the cost of the toys (and the marriage, so what's the price of that?)

The site has ALWAYS been a shock sell. Word of mouth type site. Nothing faked, everything shown, etc. You start putting my stuff out there on free sites in full length and you take away that "shock" Over saturation becomes a real issue really quick.

Think about this for a second, imagine what could have been made if you (previous owners) could have simply been apart of my 50/50 revshare program for life. Just that 1 OLD video of mine had close to 800 THOUSAND views on pornhub alone.

Instead, the path was taken to steal it and use it to bring eyeballs to the surrounding ads which quite honestly, have nothing to do with my niche to begin with. I have one affiliate who has a horrible webpage promoting my stuff. Seriously, I'm talking 1995 type page here... flashing graphics and all... He has been able to make just about 120k promoting me over the years with a tiny FRACTION of those views.

People can say anything they like about my content. I was never a "professional shooter" I learned as I went starting from nothing. But the fact remains that it must be worth something if everyone is stealing it to use it in promoting there own sites (Silvercash, Adult Empire to name just a few).

holograph, tricky in my opinion, do not really know how to answer that more precisely.

ask XXXJay - he once made a thread about this

gerco,

why not just use the paid partner program, put short "shock value" clips on the site and banners to your stuff around it... Just with one clip, see what happends, you never know, pornhub surfers might love it.

Shock Value is always very good...

The standard of proof in a civil case is something more likely than not. The only way the guy could defend this would be to hire an expert witness to attack the technology. So basically he is looking at a minimum of 10k in addition to his attorney?s fees to be able to discredit the technology. And what?s in it for the defendant to fight the case? Even if he wins he is still out all his legal fees and the public including his employer, pastor, wife, kids and neighbors knows what kind of porn he looks at. Why not just pay the $150 and make it all go away? I think most people would be willing to cough up a couple of thousand just to make it all go away.

Think outside the box...

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Qm2i8mXTjh...0/mobsters.jpg

you seriously believe that if no one had a tube site/mgp or TGPs that everyone wouldn't be making more money for their efforts? profit margins were insane, my profit margins were about 95% 10 years ago, now I'm at about 20%, I'm guessing most companies are looking at 5% or less now.

The law is not on our side, so maybe it's time to start thinking outside the box...

http://picfor.bildero.net/001AB99/Ev...tars_large.jpg

You keep making my point, you realize this, right?

Which is exactly how it will be.

Does anyone think it's amazing only pirates and their supporters think they should not be prosecuted to protect the innocent.

Never hear of thieves, muggers, burglars, murderers or any other criminal screaming this.

"Don't prosecute us for thieving, you might charge some innocent guy." :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

Gleem, no, I did not say that. I said the tubes did not hurt more.

Also, in general, I do not think in total there would be more money being spent for porn, no. There might be more money spent on DVDs or Magazines instead of Online, but thats it. In total, across all media, amount of spending for porn would not have greatly changed.

Said it before, will say it again, in my opinion most of the companies out there that saw a drop in revenue simply saw it because they did not react to changes correctly and because there was more competition so it got harder and harder to stay on top.

People paid for online porn because they had to. Now that it is free, they no longer have to.

You don't need an advanced degree in mathematics to figure this out.

If YOU are a person who is offering TONS of FREE content right now, THEN YOU ARE THE FUCKING PROBLEM!

Get it?

Don't hide behind anything, or any excuse. If you are dishing out content for free - CONTENT THAT USED TO HAVE TO BE PAID FOR - then YOU are the fucking problem, and I have no idea why ANYONE in this industry would take your side, unless they are guilty of the same bullshit!

You say that people "didn't react correctly" to the thieving? I agree 100%!

It should have ended as soon as it fucking started. Whatever it took...

Read into that whatever you like.

Nice spin.....

This will hit US press by next week... doing an interview today for a major news service.

@ Nathan,

Why are you hiding nathan?

Why don't you explain to us how you verify that the uploader verify the models age in the video as stated in your 2257?

And show me where your recently high budget produced full length film on pornhub please as I ask you in this thread:

https://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=987082&page=5

Are you running now because you have no obvious explanation? That's a nice admission of guilt.

Well I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

People figured out how to take advantage of the giving away more porn for free to get more signups themselves but I honestly think there are less overall signups to go around than 5 years ago, even 2 years ago.

However I will concede that a person in your position with your resources would know more of the technicals than I do, if you say there are just as many signups being done today as there were 2 or 3 years ago before tubes rose, I'll take your word for it, and I can only hope you would invite me to your office and show me what I need to do to get a 1/20th of the signups you got coming in without resorting to a tube setup ;)

I've already done and proved all 3 of those things wrong. And we are in the middle of a record sales month of all times here. Nobody rebills better.
I love it when people "theorize" on what's "going to happen" with absolutely nothing to back it up.

Boy, I sure hope for Nathan/Fabian's sake that it doesn't take off on the news channels and then lead to an investigation and then lead to pornhub's U.S. traffic being cut off. Though I'm sure he doesn't really need the U.S.

I just hope that doesn't happen... :upsidedow

http://www.stevelightspeed.com/jordan.gif <---- she never gets tired huh?

thats never gonna happen.

gleem, another interesting fact, which noone again will believe... only a FRACTION of our sales come from our tubes.

I just know that I have seen many programs fall, and many rise at the same time. So I see no reason to believe there are less sales.

This discussion existed when TGPs were there, it existed when MGPs were there and now it exists and the tubes are blamed... All I am saying is, always putting the blame on someone else is the easy way out. Other companies manage to thrive in this economy and under these circumstances, so why can't you? Can't really blame that on tubes in my opinion.

Robbie: "blah blah" ... I am shivering with fear about steve's torrent lawsuits...

Interesting!

years ago one could name a dozen programs or more doing 1000+ sales a day, now you can almost count on your hands and toes ones that do more than 100 per day.

I f I had the time I would dig up those threads on here in 2001 where I posted, and others did. indeed, same discussion each time new site models come up with to give out more porn with. I am in the camp that always says less free porn is better for sales.

It's almost like someone standing next to a Dunkin Donuts store door giving out all you can eat free donuts and coffee. Sure some will still want *some* dunkin' donuts brand donuts/coffee, but the majority just wanted a decent cup of coffee & donut. Those who were unsatisfied with the taste of the free stuff will go in to buy Dunkin's version but they will buy alot less since they are full already.

Come on you don't really believe that right?

I think the difference is I see an exciting money making opportunity were as you see it as a negative.

Actually Roald, back in the mid 1990's we were thanking God for the Clinton administration because it didn't fuck with our free site business model.

When Bush won the election we were scared shitless. John Ashcroft (Bush's attorney general and a religious nut) was chomping at the bit to get rid of porn on the internet. And the first thing they would have targeted would have been FREE SITES. We are the ones making it available to everybody....which they would have tied to kids watching porn.

We knew then...and in fact had several get togethers with the top traffic free sites in the world at the time...that we were ONE law away from being shut down.

And of course we had the contingency plan of selling people a lifetime "membership" for $5 or whatever just to keep them coming to the site. But we knew that even with that tiny entrance fee...we would lose 95% of our traffic.

The only thing that saved us quite frankly was 9-11. The govt. turned it's attention from us to "terrorism"

But it doesn't change the fact that you, me, and Pornhub are still just ONE law away from being shut down in the U.S.

Surely that's something that you guys have discussed before? It's not as big a fear to me as it was in the late 1990's, but it's still there. I HOPE it don't happen. But I've felt for the last couple of years that with tubes and torrents putting out entire scenes for free with no real age verification...that it's going to end up destroying all of us in the end via new govt. legislation.

You are saying 2 diffrent things now. The above I understand.

Your first comment wasn't about free porn in general, at least the way I read it it was about pornhub being cut off due to Steve his action.

The new batch of right-of-the-right righties coming down the pike, are as anti-porn as they get! The new Delaware lunatic is ANTI-MASTURBATION for Pete's sake!

And some of the idiots on this board are eating it up and cheering them on!

WTF?!

I was trying to make the point that if the media in the U.S. picks up on this...it'll become the new "flavor of the month" for idiots like Bill O'Reilly to "investigate" and then politicians will pick up on it as a way to gain votes from the religious right and then a law could happen.

That was my intent. Sorry if I was misunderstood.

I am honestly confused...
robbie, now you are saying if free sites go away the industry is dead?

gleem,
your donut example... in my opinion its a bit different...
I had this huge donut story almost typed up, but it got rather complicated and silly in the end ;) so...

what I think is, there is two ways through town, one that goes by the dunkin donuts and one that is not. The fact that there is someone outside of the dunkin donuts store giving away donuts has made more people walk along that route, way more... and people opened up shop all around... this caused two things:
More people bought donuts, simply because of the mass of people. But also, it was split up among various places...

Your 1000 sales a day comment is true and false. First of all, there still are plenty programs that do 1000 sales a day. But most importantly, I think you are wrong with that many programs years ago... Also, 10 years ago, there were maybe 25-50 big programs. Today, there are probably 400 NATS programs alone, another 250 MPA programs, and 1000 CCBill programs... ON TOP of the still 10 or so big players...

The sales had to be divided somehow..

Brother, you've been confused a lot to hear you talk. lol

I don't think you're confused one bit. I think you're just doing what makes you money. Never said a bad thing to you about that. I like making money. I just get tickled to see you pretend you don't understand some stuff.

For instance, if it were me...I'd just get all of Lightspeed's stuff the fuck off of my tube site. Wouldn't hurt you one iota, but it would save you a lot of grief. But you like to play so go right ahead and play.

nice work steve! it was just a matter of time...

What I don't think a lot of people understand is that people are like sheep. Especially when they have their dick in their hand.

The average porn surfer doesn't know what a tube site is yet, he never used newsgroups, he never used password trading forums or the IRC. He is a newb by all accounts. He doesn't even know shit about the computer he has been using for years. He doesn't even know (File) Explorer exists. He cannot do squat to his camera pics without the software that came with his camera including moving those pics to his computer.

So when you take that guy and you sue enough people in his spot he says, fuck those tube thingies and this is why I don't even have torrent software installed... You know those hackers? They created that software and it can really harm your computer!

So once Steve's lawsuits get traction and make it to the evening news a lot of paranoid fucks are going to uninstall that software and start paying again. It is just the way things work.