fuck yea!! brb registering:

hairy-midgets-pissing-on-teen-chicks-with-dicks.com

On topic, it can never die. Ever. But that doesn't mean you will make any money slinging it. The days of throwing a TGP up and waiting for the signups from your hosted galleries are somewhat over. I say somewhat, because there are still people pushing big hits anywhere they need them, and if you throw enough shit against a wall, some of it sticks.

The fact that any monkey with a laptop can toss up a free hosted site, with free hosted galleries, with free licensed pics/vids, with free hosted vid chat .... creates an awfully tough market place for those of you who do it all legitimately.

IMO (which isnt worth a whole lot), the people who were here in the beginning, will be here in the end. Most everyone else in the middle (like me) will just fade away. The exception would be those who jump in with industry knowledge, and some sick funding. But I've seen that go sour also, and watch those attempts sizzle really fast lol.

No idea why i replied to this, or why i keep typing, so i will just end it here.

Later

met it few seconds ago and looked alive and well

Having a good product rules above all else.

:thumbsup

Depends.

People will always be wondering that whats inside a paysite. And being able to access the material early is hobby of everyone who can afford it easily.

it's false

even my computer illiterate friends all know about redtube and youporn. Paying for porn, unless it's something extraordinary or very niche, is dead imho.

people who talk about how much sales they are doing don't make sales.

they want to look like a cool guy.

So true.

.

There is too much competition, warez, tubes... but sell porn online or make money as an affiliate is not dead.

Fitty dead Porn's :Oh crap

True dat. :2 cents:

no way is online porn dead, sure it's harder but those with the energy and stamina will still succeed. Where else are people getting their kicks if not online, people will always want porn.

Quoted again for the truth.

Back in 05 we were make 12 grand off one single client a month. It was in a part of porn that didn't think giving the product away was the best way to sell it.

The flaw in online porn was in the first sentence. People should of never made serious money promoting sites. You don't need to work very hard to get men to look at porn, the trick is getting enough of them so one buys anything. Especially when there's more free stuff than stuff to be bought. It used to take 50 people to look at a site to buy, now people have orgasms if they convert 1-500. And that takes 5,000 to look at their free samples.

Good bump for a thread that deserves to be bumped every year. How many of the people telling us they are doing fine are still doing as fine? As they were a year ago.

Online porn will never die, it will be a means to get 1-10,000 to buy a dating or web cam membership. :1orglaugh

Interesting, please tell me where people get there credit cards out to see non adult photo and short films ?

Do I need to link to all of the nearly identical threads posted 1998-2000?

While it is much harder to make money than it used to be, on the design side I think there is another reason for this. Big companies hire inhouse people so they don't hire out as much and freelancers have to deal with people overseas. As piracy got more and more common there became no capitol investment separation for designers. Gone are the days when a person needed to invest several grand in software to be a good designer. Now a guy living in a third world country can get that same software for free in a heartbeat from torrent sites so you care competing with them directly.

Perfect example. A few months back I made a post in the buy or sell section asking for designers to give me a rough idea of what they would charge to make me some blog headers. Admittedly it wasn't a hard job, but one I have no time to do. I got a few offers from US based designers wanting between $75-$250 per header. I got several offers from people in other countries for $10 per header. I went with the cheap one and the headers look freaking great.

It is tough to compete with someone who can live on 1/10th as much as you so they can afford to charge 90% less than you.

They don't. Selling streaming media online is pretty much dead. Mainstream because a few companies have a monopoly and hardcore because of piracy. Give it a 2-3 more years and only a small group of tube owners will be making money and it will be mostly from cams and dating, sex toys and penis pills.

It isn't the affiliate that killed online porn it is the site owner giving away too much of their content to the affiliate. I remember back when I started most companies only offered a very small amount of affiliate content and if you used it too much link sites and TGPs wouldn't list you. So surfers saw the same stuff everywhere and got the hint: they were going to have to pay to see more. Then companies started offering zip downloads of their content and FHG's with a ton of their content on it. Suddenly there was more of their stuff out there for free.

It used to be that affiliates had to buy most of their own content and pay for their own hosting etc. These days that is just not the case. Now companies give away a ton of affiliate content, free hosting, FHG's galore etc. It is just too much.

Affiliates didn't kill the industry. Affiliates made a lot of people very rich. However, giving affiliates infinite free content certainly didn't help things.

However it was the affiliate demanding more and more free porn that forced them to.

Both are to blame. But the way the whole thing was set up showed the thinking of the online porn community and still today it has changed little.

Robbie says the Internet brought porn to millions, not realising porn was already available to millions who had to buy it. If they lived in a State or country where some porn was illegal, they bought what was legal or made a trip to where they could buy it. I remember the time when hardcore porn was illegal in the UK and people drove or took a train to Soho London and bought porn. Or brought it back when the visited Europe.

Ultimately they read magazines with pictures of girls in or bought 18 rated movies. They didn't NOT buy porn in any way.

The belief that traffic was hard to get was funny. Getting men to look at porn is dead easy, getting them to buy porn was pretty easy as well. Not all that looked, but a lot. Enough to make a huge profit.

Traffic and selling was easy if you had the product and buying it was the only option.

So they removed that option and free porn become an option. Why buy a membership to a porn site when A TGP site had tons of porn to get you off for free?

Suddenly the problem became not enough traffic. Which was illogical as online traffic was increasing by the day in countries we could sell to. The problem was, if 1% of surfers bought a membership. It soon became became 0.5%, then 0.25% and today probably less than 0.01% and going down.

The problem never was, never will be traffic. It's surfers rejection of what's being offered for sale.

The trouble is blaming traffic gives a picture of a solution that can be achieved. Blaming the actual product, delivers a much harder solution. One that few could fix. But that was the real problem.

1000s, looked at samples of our work for free and for what ever reason they said no to buying. Some couldn't, some wouldn't. Many could and would, but didn't see the value in buying.

Add cross sales, ripping cards and other things to the scenario and you have a recipe for disaster.

Don't expect Dating to last long. The great thing about a non porn related dating site is it can have advertisers from any industry but porn. Getting rid of the porn stigma gives far more possibilities.

However if that happens, will tube sites be able to survive?

Free web cam without the huge cost of promotion is also an option that some might think about.

Tubes need advertisers.

Maybe it will be a few big boys like Manwin driving traffic to their own sites, until the scales tip from profit to loss. Then will online porn rise like a phoenix?

I think what Robbie might have meant is that the internet brought porn to millions in a safe way. There are a lot of places in this country and around the world where porn is very much looked down upon (as you say even illegal). The internet allowed millions to access it without risking their jobs and reputations. And he was right. Sure, porn sales were out there before the internet and they made plenty of money, but nothing like it was once the internet hit. Even today with all the free stuff out there I bet there is much more money being brought in by the porn industry than in the past.

When it comes to affiliates, paysite owners could have very easily told them no. Some of them did, but most didn't. Think of the affiliate as the person who is in a grocery story giving out a free sample of a new product. They give you a bite in hopes that you will buy it that day or some day in the future. If those people worked on commission they would get as many bites into as many hands as they could. If they then went to the company who made the product and said, "Instead of a bite, I want to give away a full serving" most companies would fire them just for thinking that. They aren't going to give that much away. This industry doesn't have that foresight. We only see traffic numbers. If giving away more means getting more traffic we do it damn the long term consequences. But this is nothing new and nothing that hasn't been talked about in a million different threads.

But I do agree that both paysite owners and affiliates are to blame, you just seem to have been on a crusade recently blaming affiliates for the downfall of porn while you yourself are guilty of playing along with Nero while Rome burns. Paul Markham Cash seems to offer more than 575 different FHG's. That is a lot of free content for affiliates. You also sell a ton of content very cheap making it very easy for any webmaster to get into the business and plaster your content all over the web.

If it were so easy to get traffic and sales without affiliates why even open up an affiliate program? Why sell your content to other people? Wouldn't you make more if you kept it all to yourself and made it exclusive to your site and only released tiny amounts as little free samples? Make them come to you to get your stuff.

You constantly are calling for a reduction in free porn and a return to quality as the answer to our problems. I say you should lead by example. Close your content store and shut down your affiliate program. Make all of your content exclusive to your site only. Develop traffic yourself and develop a relationship with your customers as you have said needs to be done then report back and let us know how it went. Now is your time to be a pioneer. Lead us to the promised land.

online porn is not dead, it's doing better than ever, it's just pay for porn model that is dead

Your basic thinking and the thinking of the online porn business is wrong.

If millions could now access porn online who couldn't before. Then why do you even need affiliates to give away free porn. Why is traffic King, other than it takes 1,000s to get a few sign ups? You had these millions and got them off for free, the idea is to make them buy to get off. This isn't a new thought, nor just me. Remember when people were saying too much free hardcore porn on a TGP was hurting sales?

The idea online porn made more money than offline porn is also wrong. It might be that as the online porn grew and offline porn shrunk because of the free porn online. Of those millions coming to online, many were porn offline buyers previously. The Internet offered only one plus, free porn. All the talk about online delivering a product offline didn't is crap. There was amateur porn long before the Internet

You probably look at what a porn producer made and think that's it. Times that money by 3 or 4 and you have a closer figure. But including offline retail sales is something online refuses to do.

Building an enormous barrier between the millions who wanted to look at porn and those who sold porn is stupid. The example of someone giving away nibbles in a supermarket is so flawed it's amazing people keep coming up with it.

Think of it along the lines of loads of people standing outside a supermarket with bottles of beer trying to sell crates of beer inside. The free bottles are endless, more than you can consume. What you see for free isn't always a good representative of what's inside the crates. And you have to buy a recurring months supply of crates, whether you like it or not. The free bottles are always there just when you need them.

Blaming me for what we did is also wrong. By the time we opened our paysite the affiliates had the business by the balls. Play to their tune or whistle. Also we had other eggs in other baskets, the paysite was never our main income.

No this is the time where the promised land is elsewhere. Online has now ruined the porn business. Eventually companies like Manwin will fade if they stay in porn. The consumer is so educated that porn should be free it's pointless trying to build a site and set up a new business. Maybe there's still some money in offline, but not for us. We made our money over the years and as you say I have been preaching this message for a long time. I saw this coming, it was obvious to anyone who knew anything about porn.

We put away enough money to look after us fr a long time. Not gambling it on starting a porn site. :1orglaugh

Today there's is only one way forward. And it is as you point out. Build something that will sell and don't let the affiliate system control the building of it.

It's probably too late for any of us. The really good solo girl sites might hang on and make a Ma & Pa living. The Manwin's and FTV's of the industry will last till the very end. It was great while it lasted and I have some really great memories from porn, both online and offline. Online porn made us a bucket full of money, remember when the cry was "Non Exclusive is saturated"? It takes a lot of sales to saturate a main stream niche like teens. Either we sold a scene a lot of times, or that idea is also bullshit.

Producing the same porn as everyone else and making it exclusive has one benefit. It helps affiliates get the galleries onto TGP sites, to the buyer it means nothing unless it's very special content. Most sites couldn't afford decent content even in the boom times.

The simple reality is that millions can now access porn easier and safer than they could before. I grew up in a small redneck very conservative town. If you wanted porn the only place to get it was to drive about 30 miles to the next big town over where there were two different porn stores. I personally know a lot of people who have never set foot in one of those stories and had never purchased porn, but have bought some kind of porn related thing (be it a DVD, toy, membership) online. The reason? They don't want to drive all that way to get it, plus you risk being found out. The last thing a lot of people want is to be seen coming out of a porn store by someone they work with or live by. Attitudes have changed a lot on that in the last 10 years, but for many people in many places this is still the case.

The reason many people need help getting traffic to their site is also an easy one. Do a search for teen porn on google. There are only 156 million results. If your site is among them and you don't know how to get yourself ranked high enough in the results to make a difference you might need some help. Of course the model was too easy for too long. For a long time it was easy to build a paysite, open an affiliate program and reap the rewards. You yourself admit to doing it. You rail against the model, but then admit that you went along and gave everything to the affiliates because everyone else was. You didn't have to, but you chose to. The bottom line is that if you don't know how to generate traffic you are dead in the water. You can have the biggest, best site in the world and if nobody can find it then the site will be worthless. So the question is can you create enough traffic on your own to make enough sales to support the site? If not you need help.

As for porn growing. It has. Here are some stats.
http://internet-filter-review.topten...tatistics.html

According to them in 1994 porn video sales were at around $2.5 billion per year. In 2005 that number was $4.28 billion dollars. When you look at the graph there is slow growth between 1992 and 1995. All of a sudden in 1996 it explodes and takes off? What changed? The answer is that the internet suddenly became easily accessible for many people and many of those people felt safe buying porn online.

It is worthless to argue what happened that changed things for the worse, it is done and there is no changing it now. The cat is out of the bag and not going back in. One of two things will eventually happen. Either the business model will change so drastically that we will just give most porn away for free in an effort to sell other products like dating and cams etc. Or that model will eventually wither on the vine and we will see a time when people throttle back and return to trying to keep their stuff locked down. Of course piracy plays a role in all this as well so we will have to see how that plays out too.

People like us bring life to porno. And we are a lot of guys...