This:thumbsup

McDonalds was already here. lol

And I came from Central Florida. We didn't need fast food to kill ourselves. EVERYTHING was deep fried in Crisco.

Bad nutrition didn't start when fast food restaurants came out. And they aren't the reason our country pays more than everybody else either.
There is a McDonalds in every country I've ever visited.

Interesting rational...at least food that you say put in Crisco was fresh. Many cultures use cooking oil.

Fast food is highly processed, industrially prepared. It's all about flavor or consistency and not freshness.

It's all about salt, fat and "meat" extracts.
Fast food consumption has been shown to increase calorie intake, promote weight gain, and elevate risk for diabetes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Ludwig

I'd rather have moms fried chicken than chicken McNuggets..thank-you very much.

As Robbie said above, fix a fender yourself and your price is far less than if you go through insurance. And, if you go through insurance, they raise your rates. Isn't your car insurance a horrible rate now, if you've used it a lot?

The only way rates go down with more people buying into insurance is if we had a truly socialized plan where everyone paid into the same one. That is only if administered well, but let's assume it could be.

Just forcing people like me to buy more insurance which won't be there when I need it, unless, in the middle of something awful, I have what it takes to fight them . . . that is just more corporate welfare for the insurance companies.

If we didn't have the insurance system, your pills would cost a more reasonable amount. The pharmaceutical companies only jack the prices up because, although most individuals would not pay that, their insurance company pals will because the insurance companies are invested in you thinking you need them. I guarantee that, whatever prescriptions you need, they are available at lower prices in other countries.

It wasn't "cooking oil" it was "lard" or "grease" that you buy in small barrel looking containers. And ALL southern food is chock full of salt. Trust me my friend. It's ALWAYS been heartattack central down there.

Can I just give you an amen here. http://www.gofuckyourself.com/images.../xyxthumbs.gif

I can't even count how many people I've taught how to go to a doctor and just get something simple like antibiotics. They think they need to have thousands of dollars a year and a corporate job just to, for example, get antibiotics when they get pneumonia. Even though actual care for that is likely to be under $200 total including prescriptions.

It's unreal. Insurance used to "insure" against a catastrophe. But now the general population is conditioned to think you are supposed to use it when you stub your toe. Every doctor visit, every prescription. That is what gives them the power over people.

Running a health insurance company on a for-profit basis should be banned. I think that alone would have a massive impact on prices and make it much more affordable. The more affordable it is the more people would buy it. Helping to drive health care prices down even further.

This house has two totaled cars, one rental... and other things, my rate is cheaper right now than it was anytime when I wasn't married so I honestly don't notice.

Canadian Insurance isn't near as expensive as ours... Yes you can get health insurance in Canada. Competition does that.

Then don't buy more.

That's possible... Which is why gov competition that can force the price is a good thing because forcing companies to downsize and lose all investments isn't going to happen. If the free market wants to keep charging more like they do with UPS/Fedex, then sweet but that doesn't mean the Gov can't provide a service as well.

:thumbsup

We can't have true healthcare reform until there is true tort reform. Malpractice insurance is ridiculously expensive because there i no cap on rewards.

Insurance companies gouge customers? I am aghast!

Pharmaceuticals expensive in the US? Say it aint so!

There are 3 key players to the healthcare COST crisis in the US. Trial lawyers, Insurance providers and the pharma s. And until the head i cut off of this three headed monster (CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM) Joe Public is going to continue to get fucked.

You are right Robbie. This is not a democrat vs republican problem...they are both feeding at the trough. Do you think any politician from either party is going to kill these geese and their golden eggs? Fuck no. But they all play the blame game and pit the public against each other. It's fucking stupid, but from the posts on this board it is working.

And one issue I vehemently oppose Ron Paul is campaign finance. Giving money to candidates can be considered freedom of speech. But when one man can only give $1 and another man can give $1,000,000, the voice of the poor man is muted. Corporations are not people, individuals. Since when should they be given free speech rights? Take the money out of Washington and common sense will come back.

You guys should really thank Obama...

Since June I've been taking my Mom to the Hospital. She has both skin cancer and breast cancer. She's had operations, MRI's, Xrays, Cat Scans, Pills, minor operations, and been seen by 6 different specialists.

She's getting GREAT care. We walk into the Hospital at 1pm, and we're out by 3:30pm. Waiting time is low, and attention to her is high.

The cost? $0.00.
The Insurance Premiums? $0.00.
The medicine? $0.00
The MRI's and other scans? $0.00

The people of the United States have been fucked over for years by greedy non-regulated Insurance companies. You should count your lucky Stars that Obama is putting an end to it before you get sick.

Good luck - don't let the Teabaggers ruin a great start to a better future.

Best wishes for your mom. That's rough, but she sounds like a tough lady.

you guys should have had health reforms years ago... its so freaking important i dont see how anyone could argue against it with any form of coherent logic.

Makes me happy im in Australia land of free and good medical everything.

Like I said earlier...up until the 1990's we really didn't need it. And we still aren't getting any reform anyway.

If you guys in Australia were getting fucked by the pharmaceutical companies, medical industry, and insurance companies with jacked up prices like we have...you wouldn't be able to afford health care either.

The simplest procedures here in the U.S. run tens of thousands of dollars. It's a huge money grab.

I don't want to buy more insurance. I already waste money every year on car insurance. I can't afford to be sending more big businesses charity donations in this economy.

The problem is that our new healthcare bill has nothing to do with healthcare and is just subsidizing the insurance industry by forcing me to buy more insurance on top of the money I already throw out for car insurance.

If we had real healthcare reform, how about making it tax deductible for a business to pay for surgery if a worker needs it? That is only at most half tax deductible, but buying that same worker health insurance is 100%.

Don't you think it makes more sense to give money to a surgeon when you have a problem than a paper pusher whose job depends on rejecting a certain portion of claims?

I know someone who has health insurance, whose wife recently died, and the insurance company apparently routinely rejects 10% of medical costs in such cases because they know most grieving spouses won't take legal action before the statute of limitations runs out.

The insurance companies are what messed the cost of medical care in America. Not to mention the quality.

If you go to the hospital, they treat you like you are a criminal in jail, limiting when your loved ones can see you and who they count as family and suchlike. Name one other industry where you will be treated like that, while handing someone $40,000. The reason the hospitals in the USA can do that is because the insurance company is the customer and not you.

don't forget the pharma companies too.

I kind of think big pharma is exploiting what the insurance companies set up. I see their inflated prices as an unpleasant byproduct of the insurance middlemen underlying problem.

If you really feel your car insurance isn't worth it, if your car is paid off go buy limited insurance for some stupid low price. Nobody is forcing you to pay premium rates unless you don't own your car, then it's logical, it's not yours.

The healthcare bill provides healthcare. I don't care who is dishing it out.

Before the healthcare bill we had nothing... after it, we have something. Expecting it to be perfect, is insane. But getting our foot in the door isn't. Now that we have a healthcare system, everyone, you me, dem/rep, etc should be working to improve it, not stop it.

When I see others not willing to give up a small bit of money to help fellow Americans I truly think the people disgust me. I'm willing to die for my Country protecting its people & you people aren't willing to give up some stupid ass money that is completely pointless shit to help out?

This is the problem with America & Americans.... Greed.

it is but one of the many problems humans have.

Yeah, don't forget the opposite of greed:

Laziness.

Before I moved here to Vegas I lived in South Carolina in the upstate section. One block over from my old house was a neighborhood full of white trash.

Nothing but 30 somethings still living with their parents, up all night walking the streets (they didn't own cars and the cops told me it was a meth paradise) and refusing to work.

Those guys were all getting govt. assistance checks in some form or another and would work the "flea market" on the weekend for extra cash that they didn't have to report so they wouldn't stop getting their "welfare" checks.

Disgusting. Give me greed over that shit any day of the week.

And I'm not just singling out South Carolina. I'm just saying that I interacted with those sacks of shit personally there. (mostly running them off my property as my yard was 3 acres)

I also saw the same shit when I lived in Ft. Lauderdale and Atlanta. And I see it here in Vegas too. And everywhere I traveled with my bands. There was always some out of work, living off the govt. check, piece of shit at the clubs who somehow had the extra money for his cigs and beer. :disgust

how is that any different than what you are doing?

they are living off the government tit.
you are living off what the government allows you to keep.

difference = you are working to pay for your own slavery.






:2 cents:

I am one of the millions of uninsured people this bill is supposed to help.

Before the healthcare bill, I could pay for medical care when I or my family need it.

If the healthcare bill goes into effect, I will be forced to pay for insurance and forced to add a middleman markup to my healthcare. Now, if insurance doesn't want to pay for a second opinion, for example, I would have already spent the money for the second opinion and then some, but I would not be permitted to spend my money on the healthcare I choose.

Please explain to me what I have gained.

We do not have a healthcare system. I would support a healthcare system. This is just more insurance company bailout corporate welfare -- moving money from individuals and small business into the pockets of Wall Street.

If car insurance or health insurance works for you, I think you should have the freedom to buy their products. I have had bad experiences. Maybe you are so paid that liability-only car insurance is a total drop in the bucket. Please explain to me why I should be forced to buy products from insurance big businesses which sell the service of peace of mind, followed generally by trying to weasel out of covering actual need?

Additionally, because insurance companies play the market with your premiums, they drive up stock prices and, the more money they have to play with, the more they can mess with our already decimated economy.

Is that what Obama and his sidekicks tell you? That insurance companies are NOT regulated? Get real. USA economy is regulated. The fact that it's less regulated than many other countries does not mean it's not regulated at all. It's on 8th place here http://www.heritage.org/index/Ranking.aspx and get score of 78. But guess what? Sweden which is often mentioned as an example of working Socialism has a score of 72.4. Does not seem like a long way from socialism. And socialism means almost total control over economy and personal life. Trust me, I was born in USSR. I know this shit well.

Now that was rather general. Just go to google, enter "USA insurance companies regulations" and enjoy multiple laws, acts and commissions that supervise the work of Insurance companies. Unregulated my ass.

US prices go up exactly because the economy is regulated. You can actually track how they were rising with each new regulation. And you suggest to get it more regulated in order to correct this? Way to go. Good luck with it. :1orglaugh

May I ask you when was a last time you personally gave up some of your money to help someone? Did you feed a homeless or donated to orphanage? What right you have to decide that other people have to give up some of their wealth if they don't want to?

You want to help others - just go and help them with your money, your time and your efforts. But you want to take from someone else instead hiding behind sophisticated morals. That's war communism. Several million people died from it. Because they felt morally justified to take from some people for the "greater good".

This statement makes you slave. You just can't live without a thought that your entire life is controlled and belongs to someone. Can you?

Government is not something godlike. It's a body of people. Usually stupid, greedy and egoistic, because better people get better occupations and just don't want to mess with that shit. And you gave up yourself to them completely in your thoughts.

Yes I donate money, I'm a American Legion and SAL member for Veterans and have been most of my life. No, but my wife has. Yes, I donate all the time to the SA & Goodwill, almost monthly. Donating a bed in a few days. I also take care of / pay all bills for an entire 2nd family because they have no choice.

You already give up part of your wealth to help others and you give up a huge chunk of your wealth to produce wealth for others that provide the services you don't want to provide now. At that you give up your wealth to liberate and rebuild entire nations, trillions out the door.

It's time American faces the facts and start working towards getting the money better used to help our Citizens that need it.

You should want to help... it's not about helping the greater good, it's about helping America!

That's sad, one mistake, bad wreck or unknown illness could bankrupt you overnight and put all that huge expensive directly on the tax payer dollar.

You can go get basic insurance for $25 a year for those medical centers you visit, it's like a free office visit and they work together so you can visit multiple doctors.

Would have gained not paying out of pocket for the first opinion. Or if something was wrong, it could have paid all your bills while you couldn't work, car, house, even the insurance bill.

Because every day people get killed, cars totaled, etc and people get sued over scratching up against cars let along hitting them. Without Insurance you're totally fucked if its your fault. With it, it's paid for and your life moves on. If you broke your back, kids got hurt, other people got hurt, it may not just be your bill, could be 10 others, 10 cars your paying for, funeral, and legal.

All of what you said is basically why we should be working to improve the law - not remove it.

I'm not talking about theoretical insurance. I'm talking about insurance which exists.

Where do you live where there is any kind of health insurance for $25 a year, much less good health insurance?

What about the fact that car insurance, in my experience, whether it was mine or someone else's, always has found a way to not pay what is needed and raise the rates on anyone who needs help? How is mandated health insurance going to be better than mandated car insurance?

What about my schoolmate whose wife died where the insurance company took advantage of his grief to routinely deny 10% of her medical care, figuring a certain percentage of recent widowers will not take legal action before the statute runs out?

Lastly, how is asking the tax payer to pay for part or all of insurance for millions of people better than having the tax payer pay for the extremely rare bankrupting illness? The former is a bigger dollar number than the latter and forces a lot of middle class people to suddenly be on the dole.

Wouldn't it be better to let employers fully deduct medical care for their workers than fully deduct insurance? Or, heck, let employers pay their workers at the same tax level as they can line the insurance companies pockets? Or, if the idea is to, ya know help, get really buckwild, and have universal healthcare, not universal insurance company bailout?

Who said it was good? It's just that discount insurance crap you get for those health center places so you get more discounts. They aren't going to deny you, you're paying cash.

I haven't had that issue with car insurance.. I even had a car stolen in another Country and it was paid off and I got new car.

Your schoolmate could have paid full price.

How does any store, say walmart, reduce prices with volume? Leverage...

Those are things to fight to change in it, not reasons to get rid of it.

American Insurance Co.'s own shares in Fast Food Chains.

USA #1 Gluttons
obesity statistics:
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/he...health-obesity

Like Robbie, I go to the doctor, when I need care. I get to have frequent humiliating conversations, while admin assistants loudly ask me in the waiting room how I can not have insurance. But this also puts me in the position of having had the conversation about insurance with doctor after doctor. They all say that a significant amount of what they bill goes to pay full time staff to beg the insurance companies to pay what they promised. And they all pay late. How is getting more of that sort of insurance service helpful to the society or its citizens in any way?

I don't know what you are talking about with health center places. In Southern California, there are urgent care centers where they can often provide the same service as an emergency room, for a dollar amount people can afford. Is that what you are referring to?

I also still don't know what you are talking about with $25 health insurance. The health insurance this insurance industry bailout bill will mandate is going to be many thousands of dollars a year. What are you referring to?

I have had extremely bad experiences with car insurance. That is great that you have been fortunate and had them be there for you in bad situations. If you want their products, you should be free to buy them.

Given the timeline, simple math shows my schoolmate whose wife died paid much more into the insurance system than his wife's cancer therapies cost. Yet the insurance company wants to make him have a fight over money, while he is grieving. Count me out for that service. How is that mathematically good for him to add stress to tragedy?

I've paid cash for services before. It's about $8k or so to have a kid with State services helping you or it's $20k without any help. Which is roughly equal to 2.2 years of paying for insurance, just for the baby, without complications. To be put on the ventilator for 15 minutes is $1,800. Which is about half a year of paying insurance.

I can't assume the insurance will be bad... the VA isn't heaven but when you're down and out, it's the best damn place on earth.

Yes, many of those offer discount insurance services, that connect to blood work services, the visit, etc. It's insurance, but like liability and not full coverage. Yes, normal insurance that covers the costs, costs more.

I've had issues with hosptials, cars, insurance, phone companies, hosts, etc.. I still use a host even though one completely fucked me over.

If you want to drive on roads paid for by my tax dollars... you should have it for my protection then. If you don't care about yourself, then fine - might want to think of others though.

Sorry, I don't believe that, your friend was feeding you a load. Even if he paid $3k a month in insurance, it would still be cheaper than paying for cancer treatment yourself. And he has the freedom to ask how much, I do it all the time.

If you are a cash patient, most doctors will give you a cash price which is lower than insurance.

If you need a $40k operation, you can go to Thailand and have it done for $8k, while staying in the equivalent of a four star hotel room your loved ones are welcome in, with a personal 24/7 nurse.

Let me give you a more personal example. Someone close to me has cancer. She has had multiple bouts with it. For most of her adult life, she has had the fabulous government option insurance everyone talks about being so great. So, for decades, the government has paid thousands of dollars a year and she has paid thousands of dollars a year to insure her and her family. She tells me that she appreciated the peace of mind, but, looking at the total math, the insurance companies still came out ahead.

The insurance company is the house and the house always wins. Insurance is a for-profit business. They want to take in more premiums than they pay out in claims. They want to gamble with your premiums in the market. And they want a government bailout, because you can't have insurance companies fail, if they lose your premium money in poor gambles.

Look at your own math. If having a baby with insurance supported inflated prices is equal to about 2.2 years of paying premiums, how many babies would you have to have before your premiums far exceeded the cost of having the child? I think the security issue becomes more important with children involved, but, with all the insurance companies dropping coverage for children, in the wake of this awful piece of legislation, I surely don't think that end of the population is being helped.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Those medical costs are inflated by the existence of the insurance industry. Take out the middleman scaring you with his protection racket premium pricing and medical services will charge what people can afford. It is basic business that the market would have to right-price, if it were not so heavily assisted. Why do you think healthcare in America costs so much more than elsewhere?

You don't seriously think there is a for-profit insurance plan out there where I could pay $25 a year, just in case I have a baby who needs to be on a ventilator at $1,800 a pop for every 15 minutes?

Most do, but not all and that's if the person can afford it at all.

That's if you can get to Thailand.

It costs $5-$8k per chemo treatment alone and an upwards of $100k just for treatments. Before pills, hospital stay, therapy, etc. Cancer costs average $150k-$1m+. Just at 100k, that's 33 years of insurance payments just for chemo. This is all paying for it yourself, cash.

Yes they are a for-profit business... which is why we should be pushing for regulation. AIG got a bailout, the rest don't own banks thus got nothing.

When they have the addition of a new child on the policy? Unless something is wrong afterward, they make out great. That's also why having lots of people on insurance helps. People like me who haven't used it still pay in while others in my family have to get surgery done every few years to replace devices in the body. The more people we add in, the more prices can drop.

And we'll still be left with millions that can't pay for the flu shot let alone afford services to a point of getting check ups to stop problems before they happen, which is what really adds to the cost.

It also costs more because we do the most research and dev, which isn't cheap. Sad thing is other countries force the costs and ours don't. Ie: we need more regulation, not remove what was created or what's already going - correct it!

You couldn't have a baby with it or pay for medical services with it... it's not for that. It's for discounts, cheaper co-pays, cross service discounts, pill discounts, help pay for products. These aren't really anything new and a wide range of optoins exist. Anything major like that comes in, they just tell you go to the ER.

This is the free market at work, big business offers it one way, small business another and lots of people playing in the middle. If you want to take out insurance companies, you're screwing with the free markets. I'm fine with regulation, I'm not fine with killing an entire Industry.

sorry Doc, but you are wrong.

does adding more people to the electric grid make the prices drop?
does adding more people to the phone grid make the prices drop?
does adding more people to the TV grid make the prices drop?
do more people buying cars make the prices drop?
do more people buying gasoline make the prices drop?
do more people buying houses make the prices drop?
ad infinitum.



it costs more because they don't give a fuck about you.
they only care about profit.



it is a massive scam at work.


it must be killed.

Those are consumed items.. insurance isn't. But speaking of consume, Walmart would be a great example of more creates cheaper. The more people that buy into insurance, the more healthy people that pay in, the more it balances out the costs of sick people.

Them being for profit, stock profit at that.. forces them to cut costs and keep increasing them too, to keep investors happy. So they drop high costs, keep low costs, and increase the rates all around to make up for lost income volume. Regulate that, and we can add more people back in and they won't have to force profits to grow to keep investors happy.

Yes, that's exactly how the free market works, people are in business to make profits. I don't think walmart gives a shit about me either or truly any major corporation. Hell, I'm in business for me, not the other person at that.

It is.. and like other Countries proper regulations can control the scam or remove it all together while allowing the business to still operate within the free market.


Unfortunately that doesn't work when everything else around you is inflated so dreaming that the cost of medical would go down so low that everyone could afford it, is simply that... a dream.

yes, it is. you "consume" insurance as you need it, just like anything else. it is a product.


i would say Walmart is a great example of how to monopolize.

the more people that buy into insurance, the larger and more powerful the insurance companies get. costs don't go down, they go up. show me why (read: actual evidence) you think insurance costs go down. don't repeat the math you are currently using, but show me a real example of health insurance costs going down.



no argument from me on this.



how do their regulations "control" or "remove" it? by keeping costs down? how does that help? there will still be people who will never have access to it. what about them?



i wasn't dreaming anything.
i was telling you, the insurance system must be removed completely.



.

You don't consume insurance... it doesn't go away and have to be replenished. More people using it, doesn't mean they have to produce more product.


Lots of stores, restaurants, goods, etc get cheaper as more people use/buy/consume them. Internet access or phone 'net access or technology, more people buying/using, the cheaper they get to create.

Great example is Corporations. If you have one precondition person on a small company, everyones rates skyrocket to cover the cost of the person. If the person works for a large corporation, they cost is absorbed in and the rates stay the same for the people and the corporation.

More people = Lower costs. A small business as higher rates, higher premiums, etc than a big business. Which may pay more overall, but per employee and employee costs are cheaper.



Regs in Canada keep pill costs down.. If you want to sell them in Canada, they force the price.

I support fed provided insurance, social care, whatever you wan to call it. Bit more above in other posts though.





That's going to leave just as many people not able to get care as having them has created. We need something provided for the people that allows everyone to fairly get the same care, if they can afford it or not.

more people buying porn memberships don't make the cost go down.
if you have a paysite and tomorrow get 1 million new subscribers, are you going to drop your price? of course not. why should you?
if you don't pay your insurance premium, doesn't your insurance "go away"? don't you need to "replenish" it every month with more money?

it is a product Doc.




is your Internet service cheaper now than it was in the early 90s?
is your phone service cheaper now?
are the phones themselves cheaper today?
no.


i don't care how corporations absorb or reduce rates for individual people.
is health insurance cheaper now than it was in the past?
no.

so then what is your solution? have everyone on earth work for one massive corporation?




that is unfortunate.



correct, but insurance companies are not the answer.