Originally Posted by Paul Markham (Post 17551200)

Reasons why the business is in the shitter. People too lazy to read for 5 minutes.

Originally Posted by Nautilus (Post 17555494)

you need something that is worth the asking price to sell to your potential customers after your OTHER anti-piracy efforts resulted in surfers being unable to find good and fresh stuff for free that easily.

Originally Posted by DamianJ (Post 17555624)

Do you *seriously* think that will happen?

I mean really?

You think porn can stop piracy, when music, movies, tv and videogames have all, massively and publicly failed?

Really?

Originally Posted by DamianJ (Post 17555624)

Do you *seriously* think that will happen?

I mean really?

You think porn can stop piracy, when music, movies, tv and videogames have all, massively and publicly failed?

Really?

Originally Posted by Mr. Cool Ice (Post 17555646)

I wrote out a long reply to you but deleted it all because you are simply too narrow minded to discuss this issue. People who are stuck in the box, will always be so.

Originally Posted by DamianJ (Post 17555624)

Do you *seriously* think that will happen?

Originally Posted by Nautilus (Post 17555692)

I do not just "think", I know that's possible and I know how to do that.

Originally Posted by Mr. Cool Ice (Post 17555646)

I wrote out a long reply to you but deleted it all because you are simply too narrow minded to discuss this issue. People who are stuck in the box, will always be so.

Originally Posted by Nautilus (Post 17555692)

I do not just "think", I know that's possible and I know how to do that.

Originally Posted by Roald (Post 17555784)

........

Originally Posted by DamianJ (Post 17555766)

Let's start it off:

I think, despite the fact that every other content producing industry has tried this and given up on it, it is a good idea to send letters to owners of an IP address to try and extort money from them because...

Originally Posted by Nautilus (Post 17555891)

Because there is an embarrasement factor now that hasn't been tried yet and it has a good chance to work.

Originally Posted by justinsain (Post 17555928)

I imagine a day will come when every person that accesses the internet will be required to have a unique identification like a SS# or Drivers license # that can be traced and connected to them.

Originally Posted by Nautilus (Post 17555891)

Because there is an embarrasement factor now that hasn't been tried yet and it has a good chance to work.

Because MPAA and RIAA had to pull out because of the bad publicity, while porn producers couldn't care less because their publicity is already bad.

Because it's not going to scare any of the potential customers because surfers do not care what "reputation" of a company is, they only care if their porn is good or not.

Originally Posted by halfpint (Post 17555900)

It has been tried over here in the Uk with both mainstream and porn as far back as 2008. It is in no ways a new idea at all.

Originally Posted by ottopottomouse (Post 17555961)

If you think that will be secure you're as sane as cam_girls.

Originally Posted by dirtybaker1331 (Post 17552238)

The industry would be thriving if it wasn't for the fact that any Joe Blow can sell porn on the internet. Weather its an 18 year old kid from the Phillipines or some American high school dropout. Most of these people have no marketing background of any kind.

I constantly get requests for longer clips. WHY! Longer clips do not convert traffic. Who decided that was the way to promote? We have done plenty of testing and we have learned that is not the case. Makes sense to me. Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free.

There are a lot of things we can do to improve this industry. One thing that I believe would help is educating affiliates how to properly promote that will be beneficial to both the sponsor and the affiliate.

Originally Posted by DamianJ (Post 17555968)

Wow. You think the BLACKMAIL letters will stop piracy?

Originally Posted by justinsain (Post 17556004)

I'm sure something like that isn't possible today or in the near future and I have no idea what technology it would take to make it happen.

I do see it has a logical progression though. Much like drivers licenses were created to determine who is who on the road and to help make them accountable for their actions.

Originally Posted by dirtybaker1331 (Post 17552238)

I constantly get requests for longer clips. WHY! Longer clips do not convert traffic. Who decided that was the way to promote? We have done plenty of testing and we have learned that is not the case. Makes sense to me. Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free.

Originally Posted by ottopottomouse (Post 17556136)

Drivers licences and car number plates aren't really an infallible solution to things either especially with a lot of offender identification just being ANPR now.

London introduced a charge for driving into the centre during the daytime. Result? Huge amount of cars registered to someone that didn't exist and people having their number plates nicked and screwed on someone else's car.

All down to similar sort of identification being used in these sort of cases. It's your car number plate on the list - it MUST have been you. It's your IP address on the list - it MUST have been you.

Originally Posted by Paul Markham (Post 17551114)

At last people are really taking piracy seriously and doing something about it. The fight has started on one level, it has to be taken on by many more and taken to more levels. The time of sitting back is over. If you want to survive in this business.

The long term aim of companies like Mansef is probably to eliminate the competition as much as possible. To create an industry dominated by 10 to 20 companies. By doing this they could also eliminate most affiliates and the need to give away loads of free content. They are not stupid and realise with few companies competing for traffic the need to give surfers everything for free is self defeating. The need for 1,000s of affiliates will also disappear.

So how can those still in the business fight against it?

Sponsors.

Members area have to be good enough to warrant a month or longer membership. Content of members areas has to improve in leaps and bounds. Members have to want to stay to see the next days additions. It will no longer work for sites to add poor porn quality content, members are not stupid and won't stay to see another scene that's the same as what's already on the site.

It's time for imagination, innovation and creativity to take over when creating porn. Also variation needs to be included in the mis. No matter how good it is, once the viewer has seen 30 scenes of girls being picked up on the roadside and fucked in the back of a van. Another one won't make the majority of members stay around. A diet of constant prime Angus Steak does boring after 30 days.

And the amount of models faking it has to be reduced. There were comments about models not being able to act. Many of them can't even fake a decent orgasm on file. They use the same old tired phrases over and over again. Depending on the girl they will either OOOH or AAAGH throughout the scene. Sometimes when no one is touching them. If a model can't deliver the goods, send her home. Because putting poor porn quality on a site isn't encouraging members to spend money.

You can fool some of the people all of the time, all of the people some of the time. But you can't fool all of the people all of the time. Especially if you're selling to a repeat buyer. He soon wises up.

Also IMO live shows of quality can be added. They can be chat like on a webcam, live scenes like we already shoot and the only thing holding it back is the imagination and creativity of the producer. It has to be good and the attitude of the more the better has to change. Often less is better.

All this will take money. Shooting content for cut price makes it tough to shoot anything worth while. From the early days sponsors were offering me $1500 for 5 set and video scenes. Fortunately I was able to tell them where to stick it, politely. But others who were not in my situation snapped it up and and churned out low quality content for those who thought it was right to sell crap.

Affiliates.

Sending traffic to anyone associated with major Tubes or piracy, either supporting, owning them or advertising on them is like sharpening the knife of the person about to assassinate you. Because when these companies have taken over the industry the last thing they will need to spend loads of money on is traffic. The surfer will have few options on who ends up with his money. Affiliates strength is in having 1,000 of sponsors competing for their traffic. If it becomes 20 companies, they can trade amongst themselves. Affiliates may disappear, surfers appetite for porn will not.

So don't send traffic to Brazzers, AFF or anyone else connected to piracy.

Support those who do fight against piracy. Support those delivering a good product to your traffic. Don't send traffic to people who will fuck you in the long run. They are just as bad as those who will shave.

This fight should of started 15 years ago. Ten years ago would of been great. Five would of been good. Today it has started. Who has the balls to take up arms?

Sorry for the long post but it has to be said.

Originally Posted by Nautilus (Post 17556102)

You asked why do we think that this scheme would work now while all previous attempts to implement it failed, and I explained.

Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 17556140)

I agree 100%

And yet for almost 3 years now I have been begged you guys everytime I see one of you at a show to PLEASE get your content off the pirate sites.

And everytime I get assured that finally Naughty America is going to do something about it.

Just this week in one of the many piracy threads a link was posted with your entire members areas from your sites.

For God's sake man....How can ANY of us honest affiliates possibly make good sales when that kind of thing is and has been happening with your stuff?

Go to pornbb dot org . Type in naughty america in the search. Open your EYES man! That is just ONE search on one site. And it doesn't count the hundreds of other searches with deliberate misspellings and/or individual site names of your paysites and/or model name searches.

I have been saying to you guys over and over and over that Naughty America has some of the best content and paysite members areas of anyone. Maybe even THE best.

Right now this month I'm 1:4437 with you guys. I've promoted this program since it was Socal Cash and it always converted less than 1:300 until about 3 years ago when piracy blew up big.

PLEASE either hire removeyourcontent or do SOMETHING to effectively DMCA your stuff down.

Otherwise it won't matter how long the clips are that you give to affiliates. Fuck...I can go download your entire members areas off of rapidshare right now and stick it up as "promo" if I wanted to.

We can't compete with that. How do I sell a membership to your site when surfer forums like porn bb (alexa traffic rating: 1,233) are posting up nicely organized links to all of your stolen content for millions of surfers to see?

If ever there was one company that really, really needs to get it's act together on piracy...it's Naughty America.

These fucking thieves are killing you. With the quality of the content you have and are shooting right now...I should be making money hand over fist with you. But I can't.

My stats by the way are 100% derived from your own hosted galleries running on my tgp's. So the surfers are looking at your galleries. Then they are going to the tour. But then the deal isn't getting closed.

My suspicion based on my years of experience? They are using me running your galleries and then your tour page to see what the latest update is so they can then search for it on the torrents, file shares, and tubes.

We are like a fucking t.v. guide of porn for them to know what to look at next for free. :(

Please, please hire removeyourcontent

It's far more inexpensive than doing it yourself and Eric and his team already have the tools and connections in place. I'd like to see N.A. back where it belongs.

Originally Posted by DamianJ (Post 17556190)

Sorry, my bad. I thought the scheme was to stop piracy. Not just extort money from random people.

I concur, it will be fucking brilliant at doing that.

Originally Posted by ottopottomouse (Post 17556198)

The only way you are going to get your perfect system is with Stasi like monitoring of EVERYBODY worldwide and even then a lot of people will get picked out for things on suspicion rather than proof.

Originally Posted by justinsain (Post 17556227)

What I was saying is someday, someone will find a way take away the anonymity of internet users with the intent to make them accountable for their actions.

Originally Posted by DamianJ (Post 17551323)

"Make good content, stop sending traffic to AFF and any Manwin site cos they are really bad."

That will obviously stop piracy.

Nice one Pauly! You've done it!

Originally Posted by ottopottomouse (Post 17556341)

Do you want that though?

EVERYTHING you do online being monitored - wouldn't just apply to people that were being naughty.

Originally Posted by topnotch, standup guy (Post 17556365)

The beauty of Paul's argument is that if enough people followed his advice it really would work.

For real. It really would work.

Of course, this sort of proactive action will never happen and that's precisely why Markham's idea will never work.

Pretty sad really.


Lightspeed's plan on the other hand just might work.

Originally Posted by justinsain (Post 17556374)

There is also a BIG difference between " everything you do online being monitored " and having some form of " verifiable identification " for each person that chooses to access the internet.

Originally Posted by Paul Markham (Post 17556394)

We grew in a time when the customer had no options. Now he has.

Originally Posted by Paul Markham (Post 17556394)

Very sad that so many can only moan while they do nothing else.

Originally Posted by Paul Markham (Post 17556394)

do Tubes keep logs of who uploads? Because without that the industry will still slide further down the slope. .

Originally Posted by Davy (Post 17551164)

cliff notes?

Originally Posted by Fbomb (Post 17551171)

Im not reading all that.

Originally Posted by Paul Markham (Post 17551200)

Reasons why the business is in the shitter. People too lazy to read for 5 minutes.

Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 17556514)

Of course they do.

For instance...I gave Pornhub a shot as an affiliate. Everybody on here was bragging about how the tubes were a great traffic source and everybody else was getting rich by putting their vids on them.

So I gave it a shot. They signed up as an affiliate and I uploaded a few vids. Millions of views over the last 4 months to the vids. SIX sales for them as an affiliate! :1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

But I digress...back to the original point: To upload vids you have to create an account as a user. You can't just be anonymous and upload.
So when I log into that account there is a big link that says "VIDEOS" and it shows every video that you uploaded as a user.

That's easy enough. Now you have me, my email address, and my ip that I am uploading from.

Hell, just imagine the data that they collect that way on millions of people. Probably make more money selling lists than they do on the pre-paid spots.

So yeah. they DO have logs of who uploaded and what they uploaded. And there is also a big link that says: "PREVIOUSLY VIEWED" on your account page. And that one shows the vids you have recently watched as well.

It's all collected and the data is mined and used. Nice and tidy if a subpoena is issued. :)

Originally Posted by Bjorn_Tasty1 (Post 17556507)

So illegal sites let your kids watch uncensored hardcore porn!

Originally Posted by ottopottomouse (Post 17556538)

You really think someone who knows they are being naughty hasn't got the brains to use fake details, a disposable email address, and a spoofed ip address?

PREVIOUSLY VIEWED won't count for shit. Prolific uploaders automate their* stuff to a huge number of sites with no actual personal interest in viewing it.

*their:
Once they have removed your watermark and put their own on - it's their video.

Thanks Thanks Thanks Thanks Thanks Thanks Thanks Thanks Thanks Thanks Thanks Thanks

Originally Posted by ottopottomouse (Post 17556463)

No point giving everybody a number (and making them wear a star badge) if their activity isn't logged.

Google already keeps records of a lot of what people do while they are logged into gmail or any of their other things. Would only really be an extension of that.

Originally Posted by Vick! (Post 17556561)

And what legal sites do to prevent that, sire?


PS. By legal sites, I do not mean paysite .. most free sites, blogs, legal tubes, tgps could be legal.