I do know what selecting content in this context is. It's the reason for removing it. There will always be a real reason, but DMCA doesn't force you to give a reason. You can remove non-porn, you can remove illegal content and report it to the police without giving the user a reason. You already stated that in your TOS: "...at any time, for any reason, or for no reason at all, with or without notice." Removing all content of a banned user won't cause you problems if the reason is violation of terms/contract.

<fabian> I'll get back to you on that. I don't really know. Matter of fact, I don't know much about the site at all. My company is too big. I'll have to ask someone. But first I'll have to ask my lawyer</fabian>

I would just like to point out that not one of those guys, while they may be DVD giants, know jack about online piracy. Nada. Nothing. Waste of a meeting for everyone.

You need to be picking the brains of guys like Corbin Fisher. That guy is kicking ass and taking names, along with their assets. He seems to be the Rambo of the industry but I don't see him on your list of experts. I've never seen someone's content so locked down as Robbie's is, he isn't on the list. Borked is a programmer with so many ideas on how to curb piracy and ways to stop it, he should get a Nobel Peach Prize, but he is not on your list of experts either.

Last I heard, none of them were asked to speak at the Piracy Retreat coming up either. What DVD giants and useless attorneys will be speaking there in place of real experts? Any idea? I do... If there is a God and she has a sense of humor, it would be Fabian from Manwin. The sad part is, I COULD SEE HIM SPEAKING and telling all the DVD companies why they need to pay for this service to stop him from stealing it. I bet he was asked by the FSC or Top Bucks, but he said he will not be speaking. Shame. That would be epic.

You need to be talking to people who are actually protecting their content and stopping piracy in real life. You need to be talking to programmers who are stopping pirates with their methods already or have ideas on how to do it. You need real life industry experts, not DVD kings or FSC members who contribute large amounts of money to you. Hardly any of these guys even know how to make a website let alone know the true scope of online piracy, which is mostly OUTSIDE of the tubes.

This is why people, other than the DVD guys and very large and out of touch internet companies, do not have much faith in the FSC. When you have meetings of "experts" with guys who don't know anything about online piracy (or even how to make money online), you sort of disqualify yourself as an organization who is on top of things.

I was there for that.


Robbie has it together in terms of protecting his content and doing a good job of it. He has been ahead of the curve for a while. It would be a wise meeting. He has helped me tremendously and my latest site is hardly having any piracy issues at all. I know it will come in time, but we're keeping it under control, and owe much of that to Robbie, Borked, and StickyFingers (he has some good ideas too, even though he gets a lot of hate).

I made this post Saturday. I emailed links to Fabian and Allison over the weekend. The Top Bucks content was identified as being pirated and on Allison's "list" for a take down. Yet it's still there. I would think seeing as it was posted on GFY they would of both worked a bit faster to remove it.

But, let's give Fabian the benefit of the doubt. His whole office staff are only working their sites Monday to Friday 9-5. :1orglaugh

His reply to whether the rest of this users content is also interesting.

"Paul, I have not said I will not do it, I said I need to discuss it with my lawyers. Which will happen tuesday."

Let's guess what his "Lawyers" will say. "No don't take down the content of someone breaking the copyright laws, it might lead you open to being sued." :1orglaugh

As for Brazzers content. His reply on that was even funnier.

"It's not licensed, and if BangBros wants to remove it they can, we work very closely with BangBros. We know each other personally and on a friendly basis. We upload brazzers content on their own tube, they upload content on our own tube.


I am not going to check each user you send me personally. Sorry."

I wonder if he works closely enough with Brazzers to inform them this content is on his Tubes?

I emailed Bangbros and waiting for a reply. Anyone got better contact with them, because I doubt Fabian will tell them.

A search on Pornhub and then searching for the content on Torrents shows very quickly a lot of what's on Tubes is on Torrents. What came first is up for grabs.

Fabian's reply to this shows how serious he is. Like a Tube is going to tell people that's where they got the content from. He insults us with that reply.

Paul, why are you mixing up Brazzers and BangBros?

He didn't. He pointed out that BangBros stolen stuff is on YOUR site.

Because I told you about both Bangbros and Top Bucks content, via eamail. You acknowledged it was not licensed, said you are friends with Bangbros and will not take the content down until notified.

Your reply to my email.

While you're so busy here trolling, have you asked your friends you know personally and work with, that their content is on your site and may be pirated?

Nope, have not, I asked someone else to tell them though... holiday in north america of course, so who knows if anything happens today or not.

BTW, reason I was confused before with Brazzers / BangBros is because you said stuff like "As for Brazzers content. His reply on that was even funnier." .. So that did not really fit.

He is old. He gets confused very easily.

Paul and others,

I understand your intentions on some of your points here and the history of tube sites.

Moving on from that and looking at the near future realities, a reasonable time frame will be the main factor. Later this week we'll be sending in our DMCA's & reserving about 50 live urls for us to test against the finger print filtering once that is live. And later on, once Manwin announces that the digital finger print filtering is 100% live, you can see the results on all the studios who have their content finger printed (see bottom of http://www.fscapap.com/content.html)

So later this week/early next, look for Pink Visual removals. And after Manwin has completed the digital finger print filtering, I'd be happy to share the results of the 50 test urls.

I'm looking forward to the day that a studio like Pink Visual doesn't have to worry so much or spend so much effort in finding content on tubes & sending DMCA's & then checking on removals. And that day should be near given the APAP solution & the various tubes already committing to integrate & the others now considering it. This for me is a more realistic solution than debating every tube (and most aren't on the boards willing to interact with GFYers) about their repeat infringer policy, which for the record, we obviously advocate stricter policies rather than loose ones.

In the mean time, the FSC APAP solutions remains simple. The more studios that get their finger prints done, the more content will be filtered out and even monetized the way the studio wants.

http://www.fscapap.com

I've been gone so long I have no idea what holiday is happening right now.

Just some food for thought here:

When you go to Pornhub and click the "Categories" tab you get a breakdown by category of all their videos. Beside each category is a number showing the total number of videos in that category. If one were so inclined one could add them all together. I am so inclined. It comes out to around 150,000 videos. However, when you upload a video to Pornhub you are prompted to select 3 categories your video could fall under, so in reality, the total number of videos on Pornhub is probably more like 50,000 (not sure if their private videos are included in their totals or not).

The user I pointed out in the "other" thread started by DirtyWhiteBoy was a user going by the name of jj09. (http://www.pornhub.com/users/jj09) He had uploaded 2,209 videos and we all identified quite a few infringing ones on his first page of uploads, certainly enough to qualify him as a repeat offender. In fact just the fact that ONE of his uploads is infringing constitutes a violation of the PornHub TOS since before you can upload anything you must agree that:

"By clicking "Upload Video", you are representing that this video does not violate Pornhub's Terms of Use and that you own all copyrights in this video or have authorization to upload it."

Were Pornhub to enforce their TOS and remove jj09's account and ALL the videos he's uploaded it would result in the removal of 2200+ vids or about 5% of the total videos on Pornhub. Sound like a cost effective solution to anyone else?

But I hear ya...5% isn't enough. Well lucky for us jj09 uses his blog on pornhub to tell us about the other "hard working uploaders here". Let's look at their profiles shall we?

http://www.pornhub.com/users/amsterdamxxx - 2036 videos
http://www.pornhub.com/users/drsweary -540 videos
http://www.pornhub.com/users/tinalovesv -2393 videos
http://www.pornhub.com/users/alphaporn - 246 videos
http://www.pornhub.com/users/great-gonzo - 171 videos
http://www.pornhub.com/users/KevDaMacDaddyMac -106 videos
http://www.pornhub.com/users/kev1mac - 113 videos
http://www.pornhub.com/users/DragonGold - 446 videos
http://www.pornhub.com/users/nightvisions - 112 videos
http://www.pornhub.com/users/ivannicta - 540 videos
http://www.pornhub.com/users/drkhalf2 - 355 videos
http://www.pornhub.com/users/jakkups - 458 videos
http://www.pornhub.com/users/MRFREAKYD - 596 videos
http://www.pornhub.com/users/fooker79 - 232 videos
http://www.pornhub.com/users/kb24 - 451 videos
http://www.pornhub.com/users/KeV08 - 312 videos

This is just from jj09's little circle of friends. 11,316 videos and I'll betcha nearly all of them are copyright infringing. What do you guys think, would you like to see almost 22% of Pornhub's videos removed by just them enforcing their TOS? What if the FSC had pressured Manwich to just enforce their TOS?

Oh and here's a comment on the profile of corey999 (http://www.pornhub.com/users/corey999):
"jj was telling me you deal with vid uploads iwas just wondering if its the norm for the hub to pimp ur vids i was quite happy with the few watching them and sum of them now have crazy amounts of veiws just wonderd thats all cheers "

Apparently corey999 works for Pornhub as he puts out notifications of updates and also seems to be friends with .... wait for it... jj09! http://www.pornhub.com/users/corey99...ndships&page=4

Apparently corey999 is friends with ALMOST ALL of the uploaders I mentioned above. They come to his profile and tell him how much they appreciate him and everything! And it looks like maybe he gives preferential placement to his buds on there. Sounds like being selective to me? Hey Fabian...doesn't that mean you lose your Safe Harbor protection? Go ask your lawyers...we'll see ya in a few months when you come back to evade the question again.

wow....silence is deafening on this one.

Gone dead all of sudden eh..

Manwin pre-made responses. Please select the answer that best suits you:

a) Programming bug.

b) You don't understand DMCA or the law.

c) I have to check with my attorney and get back to you.

Nathan:
This guy has been uploading tons of our movies- http://www.pornhub.com/users/bong/
We have sent you dozens of DMCA's on this guy AFTER March 1st 2010. Why is he still an active user? Over 500,000 people have watched these movies so far.

Please advise.

How did I miss this great thread?!?!?! :pimp

Good luck with that :disgust

FYI - Reflected.net, host of tube8 has their legal team and execs watching this thread. :1orglaugh Hi guys and welcome to GOFUCKYOURSELF.

I can't wait to hear.

How is this project going?

We do not "take full length videos from anywhere", we do not submit videos to our own tubes unless we own licenses to them. And we do not have any of this in our member's areas. This just to clarify...

well why do you have this up then:
http://www.keezmovies.com/categories/hentai

you guys do NOT own 1 single Hentai License

you upload most of them.

you advertise to have them in your member area!

you dont respond to emails!

you rename the movie titles! what is fine as we can tell anyway.

so you leave us very little choice on what steps to take as you show you do not care.

Snaaaaap.

Yeah, I'd say "digital fingerprinting" that PV jumped in bed with Manwin on hasn't really changed Pornhub one little bit (I really never thought it would anyway)

I don't go there except when I see a thread like this. And it looks EXACTLY the way it did in Oct. when this big announcement was made (that's EIGHT MONTHS of people's work being monetized by Manwin and devalued for the producers).

Have any of you guys that go to pornhub ever actually hit one of those videos where the stolen content was replaced by a trailer? lol

Hi Robbie,

I'll address your last question first. Manwin opted not to do the trailer replacement, but rather the complete removal. On the Manwin tubes, we've seen about 99% of our videos removed and prevented from being uploaded in the first place without sending DMCA notices. When we see a random one get through we work with both Manwin and the digital finger printing company to determine if anything can be improved to prevent that going forward.

If you'd like to see example of content being replaced and with advertising check out xvideos.com

http://www.xvideos.com/video783845/b...teens_2_scene2

That was a video that would have been full length, but we opted to have it truncated to 3 minutes with our overlay for advertisement.

Regarding seeing tube sites with other full length videos; I'm sure some could be easily removed by participating in the finger printing program and I'm sure that a good portion of them are from companies who licensed their content to tube sites. I'm surprised how many times we are approached for licensing deals on tubes, which we decline.

And if you're curious on how the advertising model is doing, here are the stats for just the Xvideos account for this current 15 day period. It's not a ton of revenue yet, but definitely building and can obviously add into more as other tubes that are committed to utilize the technology do so as well (Slutload, Youjizz, Empflix/TnAflix, Xhamster, etc).

http://botw.topbucks.com/Alli/65187.png

In this example, I look at it this way. Pink Visual not only prevented a lot of full length videos from going live seamlessly, but we also we avoided the work of hunting down our content & sending DMCA notices, and generated some revenue at the same time.

Since we've been so hands-on we've also seen this technology being utilized at the file sharing level as well.

Nice stuff but it will only work when all the tubes owners are into this. Good and positive to see that Pink visual and Manwin are both making the 1st steps!

Any ideas on how quickly that process works for you? If I were to upload one of your full length vids (this is hypothetical because I would never do that) is it getting stopped from going up at all? Or is it up for a period of time before the software spots it?

Just curious, because I'd rather see it not go up at all and the person trying to upload stolen content get a window telling him his account is banned and his info is being forwarded to the authorities. THAT would damn sure stop them in their tracks.

Also, just to be clear...I know that the tubes are starting to have licensed content.

When I went to Pornhub just now these are the first videos on the front page:
http://www.pornhub.com/view_video.ph...key=1115214320
http://www.pornhub.com/view_video.ph...key=1997796794
http://www.pornhub.com/view_video.php?viewkey=266647155

Does anyone know if those are licensed? Or stolen?
I know all three of them are promoting a Brazzers join for $1, but they obviously aren't Brazzers vids. And call me crazy...but if somebody is making money off of stolen content? They are a thief.

I think 9 out of the top 10 Alexa Ranked adult tubes have committed to the use of the technology:

All the Manwin (pornhub, keezmovies, tube8, xvideos, spankwire, mofosex, extremetube, youporn) tubes plus Xhamster, Youjizz network, Slutload, TnaFlix/Empflix. I know that they vary in stages of integration, but within a month I'm anticipating they'll be live.

http://www.fscapap.com/

As a content owner, no one is going to do the work for you completely, but with this technology the only work that remains is to learn about it, make the finger prints (which can be done server side) & keep an eye on it randomly to audit things.

It's nice for us to know that we won't have to worry too much about the major tubes out there for copyright infringement & we can focus on solutions and removal for the other types of infringement (torrents, file hosts, etc).

That sounds good. But do you have a figure on how many pirate sites there are?

I'm pretty sure that RYC posted that he has a database right now that they crawl of over 10,000 pirate sites.
Any ideas how to get 10,000 sites on board with this?

Or how about we just get the 10,000 pirate sites to just agree to STOP user upload? Boy that would sure make this all nice and simplified. Almost like people doing business instead of thieves stealing all of our stuff. :)

Also, has anyone given any time and effort yet to the surfer/pirate social networks like pornbb dot org?

Took me two seconds to find this: http://www.pornbb.org/crystal-ray-bl...hite%20sl uts

These kinds of forums are HUGE! pornbb has an Alexa traffic rating of 1,635
And that's just one of thousands. :(

The technology works upon upload, so before it goes live. I'm not sure if the uploader gets a message or how it works with their account banning process offhand. So that's a good question for Manwin. With the advertising model we've witnessed some issues involving random CDN Servers not catching the truncation, but we've been able to work to report those to minimize those.

I personally don't know what's licensed or not, but I do know that a lot more companies are willing to license their content to tubes than I would like to see, but that is their own business decision. I also don't think these companies are the ones willing to come forward and admit that they licensed content. Maybe they will, so let's see.

That's good news, finally something positive especially when the big players are all participate into this fingerprinting solution.

Next step would be to have a majority from all the content owners (also the smaller ones) would participate into this program to protect their property and assets.

Great incentive for our industry :thumbsup

those tube sites pretty much are adult traffic now. they probably control 80% of all adult traffic.

I personally think it would behoove the industry to create a meta data database full of blacklisted terms (movie titles, porn star names, etc) that "User generated content sites" could ban and prevent from being added to their site. DMCA allows for something like the use of reasonable technology to prevent infringement in order to be protected by the safe harbor and something like this could be easily used by torrents, forums and blogs where they aren't hosting the content. One of the mainstream torrent search sites was required to filter meta data & block banned terms like mainstream movie titles.

That's good!

I know you guys are trying...but I just don't trust people (Manwin) who have done what those guys are doing.

And speaking of my non-trust (lol):
I wonder if it's stopping the upload? Or...does the vid upload, then get "fingerprinted" and at that point does not go on the pornhub public site?

I would hazard a guess that that is how it works. And like I said...you just can't trust them. I've already been shown that they were removing vids from the public page of Pornhub when you DMCA'ed them...but KEEPING them up in their premium section! :(

I wonder if they are doing that with these videos as well?

Robbie, can you email me your contact info and maybe a good time for a call? Being strategic within our industry can help ensure adult user generated content sites act more and more responsibly.