A finger print isn't maintained in the video file. It's maintained in a third party database in this case.

so how does that work if i were to for example strip the audio out, and replace the audio with the parody song of "legal, tender and fine" by snow, called "legal old and saggy" to comment on the ubsurdity of 2257 for people way over the age of 19.

those actions would be covered under the parody/commentary fair use and would still be "caught" as infringement by such a system.

We have a clear tube policy posted in our terms which allows for webmasters to post promotional clips of certain limitations on approved tubes. This does not change. We will also be updating it now to include specifics on how to work with us and with tubes that participate in the FSC APAP.

sorry nathan, but you imo you are using this to your advantage to put your competition out of business and the companies that feel obliged to do a rev share with you for you using their content seem to be in the mindset that something is better than nothing..

i liken your model to a superpower that tells third world countries "let us use your weapons to destroy your enemies or we will destroy you"...

i know that you have worked hard to do deals with programs so that you can use their content legally, but that methodology does not make things right..

your company has played a big part in destroying the affiliate model and only time will tell if its successful in the long run..

on the flip side, companies have sold their affiliates down the river for self preservation and although i would expect no less from an industry that prides itself on fucking over other people, i have to say i am disappointed by the quick wave of the white flag..

anyone that does business with any of the programs that has partnered with manwin is a complete idiot and deserves to get what they ultimately will get.... :2 cents:





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:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

anyone that would work with you after this is a complete idiot.... :2 cents:





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We remove the video and do not release it.

I also do not think your parody/commentary fair use logic works, that's just a side note.

marketsmart,

Our tubes are promotional sites. Like any other free site out there, any smaller tube or any TGP or MGP or link list or top list or whatever. We just happen to own the bigger ones. You can find that unfair all you want, this is simply a fact though.

That said, we are not forcing anyone to advertise on our tubes, be it via ads or videos through our paid partner content program. We also do not threaten anyone. Everyone out there can send us DMCA to get content removed which shows up on our tubes but should not be there in their opinion.

I also disagree that we played any part in destroying the affiliate model. I do not even believe the affiliate model is dead. We pay 7 figures each month to our affiliates. Seems hardly dead to me. We have simply found another way to make money in an ever changing industry. You can find that unfair, or evil or whatever, but in the end, it's just business.

We will see who prevails in the long run, but I think you will be surprised.

BTW, we currently pay Vobile to use the fingerprinting system on the tubes, since we do not implement any replacement of content that is fingerprinted yet, we simply remove it. The content owner never pays more than their membership fee under this model with the FSC. We are the ones paying for it in the end, but we do so because we believe that it's the right way to go forward.

Yes, however-

"Be nice to people on your way up because you'll need them on your way down."

Also applies here I'd think. Anyway I've said enough and am out.

I'll clarify my previous posts:

To participate in the FSC APAP you must become a member of the Free Speech Coalition which has I believe a nominal annual fee.

After that, you have 2 options:

OPTION 1: Content owners participate in the monetization program with the integrated tube sites (Manwin tubes + Xvideos + Xnxx currently). Here you set rules and recommendations for how to handle your content that is uploaded such as having it replaced with a promo clip or an overlay ad (see here http://www.fscapap.com/info-graphics.html)

There is no monthly fee here.
You earn money on the sale to your site & pay a revenue share to the FSC APAP.


OR

OPTION 2: You pay a monthly fee ($450) to have your finger prints tracked not only on the integrated tubes, but also on 16+ other tubes. This service allows you to have your DMCA notices managed and tracked. It also provides legal evidence tracking and other benefits such as properly formatted DMCA notices.

With option 2, you can also still participate in option 1 or choose not to.
With option 2, a certain a selection of your content is tracked (you pick what you know is infringed on most or most valuable to you). If you want to go more intensive than what is offered by default you have to discuss with the FSC.


Otherwise, the limitations are based on the actively participating studios and Tubes. Currently, there are several studios listed at the bottom of http://www.fscapap.com/content.html. Your content can't be filtered unless you digitally finger print your content with the program.
And the tubes have already been mentioned. I'm sure both numbers will grow.

I also mention "tubes" a lot, but this technology is not limited to tubes. It also applies to torrent/cyberlocker sites. Mainstream has had more success with tube implementation, but torrents have also implemented this technology.

dogfart business model redux

Only webmasters who would upload content without our authorization and in violation of terms and conditions (IE our video length limitations) would be impacted. How do you see webmasters who utilize tubes to generate traffic impacted by this?

Surfers really "upload"? I thought it was employees doing all the "uploading"?

i dont fault you for your business model.. i think its brilliant.. you have put companies in a situation where it is more profitable to rev share with you than it is to fight you..

regardless of your intentions to clean up what mansef started, the fact is that mansef built a business by stealing the content of others..

forgive me for being naive, but micheal corleone going legit doesnt squash the sins of his past...

i find it difficult to forgive a company that fucked over a lot of peoples livelihoods just because they change ownership and name...

i dont know why i spend so much time explaining my opinion when i moved on to mainstream 2 years ago when i saw the implosion of adult..

maybe its just my values getting the better of me where i believe that putting doing the right thing is more important than making money...

in any case, good lick with your business model and at least you are moving forward with providing a way for content owners to have their content removed from your sites...










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because the last time i checked, any watermarked content that was attempted to be uploaded to mansef/manwin tubes was rejected...

has this policy changed?

i was told very clearly that you had to have a paid partner account to upload watermarked videos...




.

Side note FYI. Here's a list of a handful of mainstream sites you may not know already use digital finger print filtering and many of these also use a monetization component:

Break.com
Facebook
Youtube
DailyMotion
Justin.tv
MySpace.com
Veoh.com
56.com
AnyStream
Photobucket

Of course media owners from Disney to the record industry have also maintained finger prints for years. We in adult need to catch up.

also, what if you took the position of not allowing any of your content to be uploaded to tubes and all the other content producers took the same approach...

where would the tubes get fresh content then?

do you think that would make your content and program more valuable or less valuable?





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mansef/manwin same shit different toilet.

what about the content you continue to profit off of, that you have no right to show.

guess thats not going to change.

im sure more lawsuits will follow since you havent shown any interest to stop the pirated content, until you are caught.

So Pink Visual helps the entire industry by helping put the breaks on a large piracy source, then sets a standard for all other piracy tubes and many other sources to use thumb print technology on our side of the business, which is working in mainstream and works in general, has been what has worked in other court cases... and some of you think it's a bad thing?

It really sounds like some of you may have expected the impossible...

disney goes after any site that has their content without permission and as far as i know has never been unsuccessful in getting their content removed...




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I'll let Fabian reply. We have no control over how tube site operators choose to deal with watermarked content and their paid partner program.

That rejection has nothing to do with digital finger prints and filtering. In fact, it has the potential for content owners via the monetization program to flag what content submitted is "okay" and should just be let through as is. It actually works the opposite way in which content owners could choose NOT to flag uploaded content say under 2 minutes or whatever they want.

"promo sites"

then tell me this, how come all of your tube properties have brazzers content no longer than 4-5 mins in length, but the 30-120 min videos, are videos that are their without the consent of the owners.

so its not ok for people to use your full length videos, but its ok to use others.

I have noticed this too. Just an FYI - we have 10k infringing sites in our database and most none of them care about fingerprints.

ok, but then what you are saying is that "hey, we (topbucks) can upload our watermarked videos but the rest of you are on your own"?

dont get me wrong, i think this whole fingerprinting thing is a positive step, but if program owners are just going to worry about themselves then why continue on with an affiliate program when the deck is stacked against them from the start..

it seems to me that programs are going to be looking out for themselves in the future, which is fine, just tell your affiliates thats your intention...

let the affiliates make an informed decision as to whether or not it makes business sense to keep promoting programs that feel this way...


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pretty disgusting.

there is only one problem here, one solution - and this ain't it.

anybody who tries to sell anybody who actually knows anything in this business that any of the major tube sites are user submitted generated is a fucking piece of shit.

there is one solution to this and it doesn't involve paying the FSC a dime nor paying Manwin a cut of anything - STOP STEALING OTHER PEOPLE'S CONTENT AND HIDING BEHIND THE FUCKING RUSE OF DMCA PROTECTED USER SUBMITTED BULLSHIT!!!

PornHub is NOT the porn equivalent of YouTube - stop treating them that way. I can upload whatever the fuck I want on YouTube, try that on any of the major porn 'tube sites'.

In regards to this. Use of finger print technology is not mutually exclusive to other techniques for content removal or anti piracy strategies in my opinion. Companies need to make the business decision on what mix is right for their needs.

We would encourage any company to learn about the various services and options.

Exactly. This is why everyone should be educated about the true scope of online piracy. When studios are told that 80% of online piracy is tube-related, (which came from an FSC/Apap client and not factual), who are not aware - there's a bit of an issue there. Especially those overseas.

No. I'm not sure where I'm going wrong on explaining this. So let's take a hypothetical example where Tube X is using the FSC APAP monetization program.

TopBucks webmaster Y decides they want to upload some promo video as a way to generate traffic to a TopBucks site. They create a user upload account at Tube X (however Tube X's policies work).

TB Webmaster Y goes to upload the a 3 minute clip of Orgy Sex Parties to Tube X, watermarked in a way that promotes a site that redirects to OrgySexParties with their affiliate ID.

The upload is cross referenced against a database of digital finger prints maintained & is flagged as a match. In the database, we (TopBucks/PinkVisual) has a set of rules on what our recommendations are for dealing with content of ours uploaded. We have a rule that says that if it's under 3 minutes it's okay & let it be.

So TB Webmaster Y gets his video uploaded to Tube X and it goes through as it did before (no replacement, no overlay, just exactly as it would have gone through).

--------------------------------------------
Now a side benefit of this technology to Pink Visual in this example is the fact that I can look at all the finger print matches that are say under 3 minutes and verify that they are actual webmasters promoting our sites. Through the FSC APAP system I have already found numerous instances of uploaders who take our content & watermark it to promote a paysite of theirs. We obviously would handle that situation differently.

I would be impressed if you removed ALL of the videos uploaded by the user/uploader as well as banning said user/uploader. Instead we see the same user uploading stolen content over and over and over again...and we send DMCA's over and over and over again.

How can you honestly justify NOT deleting ALL uploads and NOT banning a member of YOUR tube sites that has had DMCA notices filed against content they have uploaded illegally? Honestly...you can't.

Thank You...

FSC program does ZERO for the real problems out there. Absolutely nothing. If you don't know what is really hurting on the piracy front, you don't have anything at stake. It's a good smoke and mirrors play to make some money though, so congrats to them on that.

Yes we can, it's called repeat infringer policy. And currently, it falls shut as soon as the user uploads (I think, would have to verify to be sure) 3 videos that get DMCAd. The account is then shutdown.

If you think this is not correct, do let me know of a user where you feel this is not the case, so I can investigate myself.

All of this obviously only applies to post March 1st 2010.

By far most of them also are not tube sites.

As you confirmed yourself, tube sites are NOT the major problem with piracy in this industry. It's the sharing boards and torrents which are the big problem in my opinion.

There are a ton of other companies that have 3-5 minute clips on our tubes also, it's by far not only brazzers.

Did you ask all the owners of those 30-120 minute videos? Also, ever think of the possibility that we might actually buy licenses to content?

BTW, we have full brazzers and mofos videos uploaded to our tubes all the time. We find them on other tubes too. We send out DMCA's all the time... In terms of amount of piracy OF OUR content, we are likely one of the biggest ones. We have sent over 100000 DMCA's in the last 2 weeks alone.

Translated: The Piracy Retreat held by Pink Visual, and now with guest speaker Fabian from Manwin, is just one big sales push for the FSC, aimed mostly at the dying dvd companies.

Well done.

I am not going to the Retreat.

You should.

It is going to be all dvd companies who will fork over however much money the FSC asks them to fork over. You could help and do your part to help both the FSC and to fight piracy at the same time.

It would be a Man-Win. :upsidedow

We help the FSC in every fight they are fighting for the industry, from .xxx to piracy and everything inbetween.

And the FSC makes almost nothing from this system, most money goes to Vobile and in the case of option 1 that allison explained, only a small share goes to FSC too. Most of it is a revshare between the tubes and the sponsors, some goes to vobile, some goes to the FSC.

BTW, the FSC is a non-profit org, so not sure why you keep making it sound like the FSC is making a ton of money here...

FSC...fabian buy that too?

I don't make any money on paper either.