Hey Noe,
How did that hentai content work out for you? Have you guys been served yet? I find it hilarious you, of all people, selling unlicensed hentai content would chime in here. Shall I post the court settlement and admission of guilt by your content broker?

Not all of our videos are watermarked (we're still working on it), but those that are can be identified easily, for example:

http://www.spankwire.com/Pantyhose-Sex/video220318/

A person who's uploading video is not covered under DMCA, no matter if the video was recutted or now.

I'm interested to know the answer too, please find out and let us know.

In terms of spankwire, they used to have a hidden CDN where all the master flvs are archived. I'm not sure how it operates now, however, in the past they simply clicked the video off.. not remove.. (just like you can do with traditional TGP software) and reactivate it at a future time. I'll need to do some digging and find it.

If true that would probably be a great thing to be able to prove in a future court case. Might even be able to use it to put someone in jail for perjury. :thumbsup

That's outrageous :mad:

BTW, love your avatar, very creative :thumbsup

Raw
http://n1.public.spankwire.com/4/
Here's the mobile
http://n1.public.spankwire.com/5/
and thumbs
http://n1.public.spankwire.com/3/

My point is that if they do it automated on user uploaded content they might not be covered either.

Ain't DMCA grand? As long as we can lay blame on "someone ELSE" for creating and uploading it we're all set. Awesome! :thumbsup

Then you DMCA us, we take it down, it gets loaded again, you DMCA us, we take it down, it gets loaded again, you DMCA us, we take it down, it gets loaded again, you DMCA us, we take it down, it gets loaded again...

Sound familiar?

Nathan, one more question regarding your acceptable use policy.

Does it always have to be 3 infringments for an uploader to be banned? If it is only one, but a BIG one, what happens then?

For example, if you get DMCA to take down this video:
http://www.pornhub.com/view_video.php?viewkey=229526824

Will you wait until the next 2 DMCAs arrive, or will you check this user's profile and find out that he's uploaded the entire publicinvasion.com member area to your site and pro-actively ban him?

http://www.pornhub.com/users/crispoc.../public?page=1
http://www.pornhub.com/users/crispoc.../public?page=2

Damn, that surely sounds familiar :pimp

:1orglaugh Mossberg tactical with hollow point slugs.. one of many tools

OK, that much makes sense then, thanks for posting that.

So then the question becomes, how easy will it be for pirates to strip out this meta data that is being added to the video? I would think if someone can break DRM or remove EXIF tags from photos, it may not take long to strip the videos of this. I'm sure this was already taken into consideration, but it seems like something that may be easy to defeat with a little know-how.

Another question is, if it's a finger print, does the printing take into consideration a video that may be scaled up/down or have the ratio change to try to elude the system?

DWB, the meta data is not stored in the video, its in the VideoDNA database at Vobile. Vobile reports it back to the tube (in case of a match) with the match result. Nothing is stored in the video.

And yes, it takes into consideration scaling, quality and cropping.

So here would be an interesting test of this system:

Let the GFY Community know when say all the Couples Seduce Teens or Teens For Cash videos have been fingerprinted and when Manwich is using those fingerprints on all their tube sites. Then challenge the GFY Community to find any of those videos on the Manwich Network for The Advancement of Copyright Infringement family of tube sites. If we find a CST or TFC then we know that something isn't right.

Mainly
Assisting
iN
Willfully
Infringing
Copyright
Holders

Nathan,
Two questions:

1) If someone creates a partner account with you, what can you do to keep others from uploading content from the same site you have a partnership with? I'd hate to get into bed with the devil, but if it meant it could stop everyone else from uploading my content, I would.

2) Creating an email white list should be easy-peasy. That would solve a LOT of problems. Why not do that?

Something has to go into the video itself, no?

I used to have one of those back when I lived in the Midwest, got stolen. :(

Far as I see it, for home protection, doesn't get any better than a tactical shot gun. Though I had buckshot for the first 4 shots (to make sure I hit them and took them down) and then slugs after that.

All of our content is already digitally finger printed. Fabian mentioned they are already beta testing the finger print filtering only the complete removal portion. I believe the tests are going well.

So the answer to your question is yes, once all is integrated it will be easily to see how it impacts Pink Visual content currently on the tube sites & future attempted uploads.

No. Nothing goes in the video. Imagine when you go to actually have your finger prints of your actual fingers taken.

They map the lines of your finger with the print. The police or whomever, are left with a print & you are left with your finger as it was before (not with anything added).

Now just being absurd for this example say, someone goes to upload your finger, well the tube site takes a quick finger print as well & asks the police if it matches their files. If they say yes, they either remove it or send back a recommendation (set by you as the finger owner) as to how to handle it.

~Alli

I understand, thank you.

So in theory, HAL or Jaguar or whatever you call this system, watches the movie and during that time "finger prints" every frame of it. Makes sense.

Yup, it also takes audio finger prints too as a side note. And it reports back any time of match from a 10% match to a 100% match. Where a 10% match would mean that say only 1 minute of a 10 minute clip had a match to your piece of content. So it can help you find people who compile clips.

That's what this is all about. Many courts have decided that digital finger printing and filtering is a viable remedy for both tube sites (or User Generated Content sites) to prevent infringement & a viable remedy for copyright holders to minimize the burden of tracking & sending DMCA notices.

Many GFYers here seem to let emotions run hard & think there is a magical legal recourse that exists which causes tube or torrent sites to be shut down completely and prevented from ever operating again and that is just not a realistic scenario in most situations.

If you don't want to have to track and send DMCA notices to any of the tubes participating in the FSC program, just go to www.fscapap.com and sign up to get finger prints created of your content or at least get demo and one on one consultation.

Then you naturally benefit as more tubes or even torrents participate in the program down the road.

Thats amazing technology.

I think the down side to this is it's not yet affordable for smaller companies or mom and pop operations, for the amount of tubes it checks against. However, I will admit this is extremely promising and once they have many tubes, torrents and file sharing sites on board, it will probably be worth the money.

So which option is the "not yet affordable for smaller companies" in your opinion? The revshare program (55% of each sale made from the upsells) or the Tracker and removal program for the $450 per month?

~Alli

Well duh...

I can probably speak of a lot of smaller operations when I say, unlike large companies like yours or Nathan's (or others), we don't have people searching for content and sending DMCAs for us. We do it all, email by email, on top of the day to day operations. This makes it extra frustrating instead of just having someone on staff to do it, which would probably make it a little better.

There are more of us smaller guys than there are of you big ones. This is why theft is met with such hatred. Many don't have the money to sue and fight legal battles, and are literally caught in the middle of something that is totally beyond their control. I can only speak for my self, but I can't tell you how many times I've had my content removed from Nathan's sites alone, only to have them go right back up under a different name a week later. Doesn't matter to me who is loading it, it ends up back up there and that is the bottom line.

And lets not beat around the bush, regardless of what the tubes are morphing into, we ALL know how they got the traffic that they now have, and it wasn't by loading legal content. The screwed us ALL in the ass and now we are eventually going to get strong armed into doing business with them, because I think we can all see that's where it's heading. And truth be told, that is probably what this scamming, incestuous industry deserves, right along with .XXX to ice the cake.

To sum it all up, it's like being forced to do business with the guy who repeatedly raped your kid sister. Of course emotions are going to run hard. :2 cents:

$450 a month for tracking and removing 10 videos on a handful of tubes seems steep. If it gets to the point where it's 15 - 20 tubes, 15 - 20 torrents, 15 - 20 surfer boards, and 15 - 20 file sharing sites, then it would be MUCH more of a value, because that is where the bulk of the piracy is taking place now. Even if they only scanned the top 10 sites from each piracy area, that would be much better. From what I understand, you CAN alternate the 10 videos, which is a huge bonus (if that is correct), but the amount of sites it currently scans does not seem worth the value. It doesn't take that long to scan 10 tubes and deal with it yourself. The surfer boards and file sharing sites are the real time consumers.

I personally don't see the rev-share option as a real solution (I hope I'm wrong), simply because it's very hard to convert an ad video or sample clip in a sea of full length free videos. Tube traffic is not the best of converters to begin with for this very reason. YES you can make some sales, but the ratios are pretty bad. At least in my experience anyway. I think this could hurt the tubes as well, as surfers are now used to full length videos, and if the tubes start to get filled with promo videos or ads, they will simply go somewhere else. I know I would.

I'm just commenting on your second point because I think those are all valid concerns from your perspective. I'd still encourage you to take the demo to learn a bit more about it or at least be in touch so when the # of tubes is worth it to you, you can be contacted.

Regarding the second point. Worst case scenario it doesn't convert & you prevented your full length video from being viewed & instead showed a trailer or a shorter clip that branded the content the way you want it branded.

Best case scenario, people actually get creative & optimize how they advertise to a consumer like this (maybe have a tube style tour or sell non-recurring per scene instead of monthly memberships or come up with an idea no one else has yet) and you generate some good money.

In my opinion, any result between the worst case scenario and the best case scenario is still decent. No?

Yes, the technology has my interest. I'll keep my eye on it and see how it goes.

Regarding the rev-share, gonna have to wait and see on that one. I hope I'm wrong and people make a lot of money. While I am confident in the tracking technology, I don't yet have have that same confidence in monetizing it once it's found.

I still look at porn so I am trying to think about what I would do the second I noticed I was not going to get the video I just clicked on. I'm pretty sure I would click back and go find something else that was what I wanted, free. Don't think I would spend a second more to watch something I did not click on. Keep in mind, I'm sitting there, cock in hand, looking for something that is going to get me off. Click... NOT WHAT I WANTED... Exit. I would also stop visiting that tube if the bulk of the videos did the same thing. What you're really doing is creating blind video links. My gut is, that won't work. However, I've been wrong before, so I'll watch this project and see how it all pans out. For the sake of the industry, I hope it all works as planned. Something is going to have to give sooner or later or it's curtains for a lot of sites and companies.

DWB: so in your second scenario what is the downside to you?the upside I would think is that you didn't have to send DMCAs at a minimum. All the other scenarios would be the tube operators concern and I'm sure many would adapt as they saw fit.

Yeah after all, it's only your livelihood that the crooks at Manwich stole. Get over it guys!

I mean why would they be upset that a bunch of questionable thugs came into the biz, broke every copyright law known to our industry, made millions and millions doing it, operated a tube site WITHIN THEIR MEMBERS AREA full of stolen content and now those producers can look at a thread like this where you're both sitting here trying to induce them to join the bro-club. I mean what's there to be upset about?

:thumbsup x 1,000,000

DWB, if $450 USD a month is not worth it for you to nolonger have to police your 10 newest videos on 16 of the biggest tubesites, then what would ever be?

I understand that there are mom & pop shops around everywhere, but $450 USD a month? EVERYONE here complains how all the tubes steal their content and cause them to make less money, if $450 USD a month is too much, how much less money are you making because of the tubes stealing content?

Or are you now saying you are making less money simply because the tubes exist? If that is the case, then your problem is not piracy, its the fact that tubes are in your opinion hard to compete against.

$450 USD is basically 10 sales a month or 1 sale every 3 days. Are you losing less sales than that because of the tubes in your opinion thus its not worth it? I am trying to figure out where the problem specifically is.

I also think you should talk to someone like RYC or Degban and discuss how much money they actually want to DMCA your content for you, you might find it cheaper than you think it actually is.

DMCA has become a cost of doing business in this and any other media industry. And as you said yourself, its not mainly the tubes, its the filesharing sites and torrents. I understand that it pisses people off, but me closing our tubes would not a) make anyone more money and b) lower the amount of work DMCA wise you have to accomplish. It will simply shift our traffic to tubes and other sites which are much harder to deal with than we obviously are.

I can not change the past, and blaming me for it does not help anyone either. I think I have shown plenty of times by now that I am willing to work with everyone and I am by far the least of your problems piracy wise. You should actually prefer me controlling these tubes than most other big tube site owners out there.

I suggest you stop claiming that Manwin did anything as you say above, since its simply not true. I am not going to stand by forever and just let people paint me that way.

1) Manwin is not breaking any copyright laws.
2) Manwin removed the UGC section from their members area community when we took over the assets.

As I said in my previous post, I can not change the past. If you can not stop living in it, I can not help you.

Sooo Fabian...put your money where your mouth is and delete the user profiles of anyone on your network of tube sites that gets 3 videos reported. And delete the other videos they have uploaded. I've sent you guys a few hundred DMCAs but I'm totally down with keeping track of the usernames of all the DMCAs I submit to you. I'll put it in a GFY thread and if a name gets 3 hits, I expect you'll do the right thing and take action.

Also, is this technology up and running in the tube site Brazzers operated within their members area, or are we supposed to keep that on the downlow?

Don't fucking lecture us on copyright laws bitch.

Living in the past? You bought a public-relations troubled asset my friend and with that comes the reality that YOU have to deal with. Why is the "MAN" still in Manwich? Is Stephane Manos still there, if he is...then as long as he walks in your hallways you're going to have to pay the price for him being there.

Ya know what, it may not make anyone anymore money...but ya know who definitely won't make anymore money....YOU. And for a LOT of people in this industry...that'd be just fine with them.