on subscription websites yes, on VOD no. VOD is incredibly stable.
my chargebacks are less than .5% and i know that accross the board its similar.
why not do VOD at the very least? leaving money on the table imo.

on edit - once again refer to their TOS.

how long ago was this? didnt they change their TOS in the last year plus.

No, it is not discrimination; Paypal can do whatever it wants to do as far as what it processes and what it doesn't. Paypal can have whatever kind of Acceptable Use Policy it wants as long as it does not contravene applicable law or go against public policy.

You, on the other hand, cannot cry "Discrimination!" after you have agreed to the TOS of Paypal, which includes agreeing to the aforementioned Acceptable Use Policy.

Confusing?

Yep, sure is and that's why they make it that way, so they can be selective and arbitrary in enforcement.

I can see this making epass look like a non-issue

I think there is a big difference in PayPal allowing p2p transactions from sponsors to publishers vs. processing porn sites. Someone mentioned adult URLs in the transaction being a problem. I imagine that PayPal's filters catch that (in order to avoid porn subscriptions) so it would be easily avoided by paying out generically. For example, from XYZ Co. to jonnydoe for advertising, traffic, etc. There are some big names that are adopting them and I know they have legal counsel. I doubt they are just throwing darts to find a payment method that sticks.

Yes, indeedy! As my Grandfather would say, "This is going to be one hoot'n a holler!"

I bet they experienced a large wave of fraudulent transactions and also some child porn peddlers immediately plugged them in. That's why they dropped it all at once.

As several people already said here, PayPal still works with tangible adult goods. And worked most of the time, afair.

Damn, the only religion that really sounded right and you destroyed it now. :1orglaugh:1orglaugh

VOD = virtual and there lies the problem.

And your chargebacks might be .5% But do you represent the whole market?

Adult transactions = risk.

It was about a year ago and in the end I just gave up with trying to get my account unblocked. They still have my money

i guarantee you VOD is one of the lowest if not the lowest chargeback % in the adult biz and is very stable for transactions. i wouldnt be surprised if it was the same rate as tangible adult.

gotta disagree on that. a good lawyer could take that TOS and carve it up claiming discrimination on basis of their "obscenity/sexually oriented materials" claim.

The fact that they process for porn dvds (considered obscene in many states) yet can deny processing for porn sites would be a good laugh for a judge imo.

its not tangible vs virtual, its obscene vs obscene according to paypal.

imagine a lawyer saying "Paypal does accept processing for the dvd entitled 'Thai Midget Gangbang' but will not accept processing for my client's subscription website which uses the same movie in a series of clips on his site."

seems like that could be a huge case for discrimination.

Some very helpful and accurate advice from old man markham (sarcasm) :uhoh ....

https://gfy.com/image.php?u=6177&dateline=1284649507

notice the one thing this article did NOT do is contact PayPal and ask them if they consider adult b2b payments to be acceptable

What keeps you from getting a good lawyer and do just that?

Pirate Joe is back.

http://www.sportslogos.net/images/lo.../full/1276.gif

Yes my statement is true. I know because my porn world goes far beyond yours. I talk to producers, models, agents, publishers and Internet people. You talk to pirates. Your knowledge on this subject is very limited.

I posted a link. Whether there's a change in policy is to be seen. I'm still cautious about it.

Costs. Paypal could throw money and delay and delay.

For those that missed my post about being cautious. Here it is again. I changed my bad grammar. LOL

:2 cents::2 cents::2 cents:

Who is pirate joe?

Image fail.

Brilliant! Now, just to be sure, you are actually stating as a Markham Fact that people spent more on porn before the internet existed?

Brilliant. Utter shit. But really funny.

I am sure *you* sold more content before the internet existed. Maybe that is what you meant? I am throwing you a rope here.

Yes, with a headline that suggests the story says something that it doesn't. I doubt you even *read* the story, you usually don't. It's why you get confused.

adameve has been using paypal on it's site since 2006... So who knows what their real policy is.

Pretty sure you are right, fair business practices or similar. Unfair advantage to those that can take it, etc. You'd have to get a suit going though.

I wonder how much money Paypal has stolen from its users and why no class action has been filed to get it back?

paypal sucks

If it had anything to do with image than your bank wouldn't be cashing your checks.

What is has to do with is the scummy/scamming people involved in adult are guaranteed to create far more trouble and risk than they are worth.

I'm surprised people really still need to ask at this point with all that has gone on this year (or the last decade).

I understand, but it works well for me and most people and it SAFE.

So if i want to fuck someone I send them $10 and put a lot of porn links in the details and their account will be frozen ??? :Oh crap

Paypal suck !

Here is what I did today because I am just a little stinker and quite curious what their reply would be.... I FREAKING ASKED THEM... here is PapyPal's response... check out the last line, its freaking great! LOL

============================================
Thank you for contacting PayPal.

Yes, you can use PayPal to send funds to your affiliates.

Business and Premier account members can send up to 5,000 simultaneous
payments to individuals using their email address. You can create, send,
and track all of your payments using the Mass Payment feature.

You start by creating a tab or comma delimited file or spreadsheet that
contains your recipient?s email address, payment amount, and currency
code. Next, you fund your PayPal account with the total amount of the
Mass Payment, plus fees in the currencies you are sending. Each currency
will need to have its own file. After you upload your file to your
PayPal account, you can review and edit your file or add a personal note
to each recipient before sending it.

Within minutes of sending your file, we?ll send you an email
notification that the process is complete. We?ll also notify your
recipients that have money. PayPal recipients receive their money
directly into their account. Recipients without a PayPal account can get
their money by clicking the link in their email and following the
instructions.

Here?s how to send a Mass Payment:

1. Log in to your PayPal account.
2. Click ?Send Money.?
3. Click ?Make a Mass Payment.?
4. Select your method of identifying your recipients under ?My
payment recipients are identified by:? and click ?Upload? on the ?Mass
Payment? page.
5. Click ?Review.?
6. Click ?Send Money.?

To see what countries can receive payment from PayPal, go to
www.paypal.com, click ?Send Money,? and then click ?Transfer Money
Internationally.?

Note:

* You can pay recipients in 22 major currencies.
* Online payments are instant.
* There is no fee for the recipient, but there is a small
transaction fee for the sender.
* An insufficient PayPal account will cause a Mass Payment to fail.
* You cannot use a debit or credit card to fund a Mass Payment.
* Unclaimed money is returned to your account after 30 days.
* Individual payments cannot exceed $10,000.00 USD.

I am glad to have resolved your concern today. Please tell your friends
about PayPal.

============================================

I dont know about you, but it seems to me that they are quite clear about sending out affiliate payments through them. I was very specific in my question and pointed out that this was not for any purchases to or from and that it amounted to commission payments earned by sending sales to our adult orientated websites (porn)

So where does your information come from. How many DVD companies, magazine publishers, content producers and others outside your narrow view of the porn world do you speak to? Go ask them if they make more money now than they did before. Sales on the Internet never replaced the money they lost. Too many buyers realised content was free on the Internet. Like you they learned they could pirate content instead of buying it.

Again you talk out of your arse. We sold MORE after the Internet started. Until about 3 years ago. You're so narrow minded your go beyond any common sense. You don't even think before you type. Not only did we have the very profitable magazine market still flourishing, we added to it content store sales. That after the hosting and programming costs were paid, was all profit as it was a totally added market.

We are one of the very few who did not shoot custom content for $100s, we were shooting scenes for $1,000s. We never closed our content stores to turn to custom shooting because the sales on shooting for ourselves was far more profitable. We were selling so much the accusation was our content was saturated = over sold.

We didn't even bother to open sites, because of the money we were earning.

Once again you talk about a subject you're entirely ignorant on. Stick to talking about how to protect pirates and how terrible it is to blackmail pirates. A subject you know so much about.

http://www.paulmarkham.com/temp/pirate.jpg

Let's see if it works in practice.

MASS PAY!
You need a premier account and no matter how many people you pay it costs a total of $1 and the reciever pays 0 fees.

As usual you do not check things before you type out of your arse, quote from PP:
Competitive pricing
A low fee of 2.0% of the payment amount with a cap of 1.00 USD (or its equivalent in the payment currency) is assessed on each payment made with Mass Payment.

End quote.

KEYWORD = each payment. So if ten people are paid, it will cost me $10, not $1 as you falsely lead people to believe, quote "no matter how many people you pay it costs a total of $1".

One mass payment is counted as each individual transfer within the mass payment order.

We've been using paypal for b2b in adult for years, longer than I remember - along with 100's of other programs and people.

It's not really new.

People spent more on porn after the 'net, an astounding amount more, billions and billions more. It went from a small group of producers doing a rather expensive job.... to 10,000's of producers world wide that forced the cost of production to drop, very fast.

Of course your friends wouldn't be making more today. 99% of them didn't move over to a new medium until they were almost out of business and had no choice - which is far to late.

Just because you produce porn great today doesn't mean it will be tomorrow...

BTW, in the 80's my dads friends pirated porn... it was very common to swap, trade, or copy a vhs to give to a friend. Every porn tape he had was a copy, not an original. I have a feeling people knew they could get porn for free far before the Internet was around.