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-   -   Why ePassporte wont pay out [Detailed] (https://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=993364)

Hermes 10-20-2010 03:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdultKing (Post 17624362)
Do you think that the investment in the movie Chris Mallick made didn't come from ePassporte ? That's what I call a failed investment.

Simple economic theory dictates that any financial service such as a bank, Paypal or ePassporte runs on a fractional reserve system. It would not be possible to operate otherwise.

That's quite bold, though popular assumption that epass funds was used for making of that movie, without any proof it's still only wild speculation, and even if true, it doesn't sound very legal move either.

Also epass is not a bank and doesn't NEED to operate under similar model, IF they get enough profits from other ways than interests. There are many much smaller ewallet systems and I'm sure they don't ALL run on fractional reserve system. Paypal might do so but they also actually operate as a Luxembourg-based bank in europe because of some laws involved.

Here's what Moneybookers, another big ewallet system says, should apply to other FSA regulated ewallets too:
Quote:

Key features of the regulation by the FSA include:

* Capital requirements & liquidity ? Our business is required to maintain minimum levels of capital. There is an initial and continuous threshold of ? 1 million own funds (approx £ 615, 000). We must also hold sufficiently liquid assets to be able to redeem all e-money issued and to meet our working capital requirements.
* Float Management ? There is a clear set of regulations on how we can invest the funds received in exchange for the issue of e-money; this is essentially limited to pre-defined low-risk and highly liquid forms of investment such as Zone A government bonds with short maturity.

Ethersync 10-20-2010 03:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stocktrader23 (Post 17624420)
This is what all of these services do, they pool the funds into one bank account that draws interest for them. In the USA I am almost 100% positive that they are required to keep the funds intact 100% to be legal. Considering how epassporte is setup I have no idea if it is true for them. My argument was with the statement that "omg, they have to steal your money to stay in business!" That is b/s and it would make the whole thing a ponzi scheme which is explicitly illegal.

You are right, but what I don't see mentioned here is that it appears that wallet funds were kept in a bank setup specifically for ePassporte and controlled by Chris Mallick. The bank holding ePassporte's account(s) and money could make loans based on those deposits.

Machete_ 10-20-2010 03:19 AM

report Mallick to the FBI

AdultKing 10-20-2010 03:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hermes (Post 17624629)
That's quite bold, though popular assumption that epass funds was used for making of that movie, without any proof it's still only wild speculation, and even if true, it doesn't sound very legal move either.

As ePassporte is a privately held company we will never know precisely who it made loans to however if you look across the board at Mallick's business portfolio, what is publicly known is that ePassporte is the only possible source of those funds outside of external investment. Yes, it is possible Mallick had a spare 20 million bucks in his back pocket independent of ePassporte but very unlikely.

Quote:

Also epass is not a bank and doesn't NEED to operate under similar model, IF they get enough profits from other ways than interests. There are many much smaller ewallet systems and I'm sure they don't ALL run on fractional reserve system. Paypal might do so but they also actually operate as a Luxembourg-based bank in europe because of some laws involved.
Public disclosures by Paypal demonstrate that it does not retain 100% of account holders funds in guaranteed deposits and that some such holdings "may lose value".

Quote:

Here's what Moneybookers, another big ewallet system says, should apply to other FSA regulated ewallets too:
Actually Moneybookers is a different system all together and subject to different regulations because of it falling under the regulatory regimes of the United Kingdom and it's structure forbids it to 'speculate on monies received by it on behalf of individuals or corporations' which is designated to be transferred. However the legislation covering speculative investment of Moneybookers funds only applies to money which originates and has a destination within the greater European economic zones. They can do what they like with money received outside of that.

Quagmire 10-20-2010 03:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdultKing (Post 17624541)
Paxum is interesting in it's terms and conditions.

I wonder if a Paxum rep can confirm one way or the other whether Paxum maintains 100% of account holders funds in accounts seperate from those for the operation of Paxum ?

Interesting that item (e) states they are registered in Belize and is directly contradicted by one of their reps in a post on the boards.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yngwie
Making online payments and paying affiliates has never been easier. Paxum Inc., a Canadian Company, founded on July 30th, 2007 has been developed by longtime industry webmasters and backed by private investors in order to meet the current and future demands of website owners, corporate affiliate networks and individual webmasters for a turnkey payment solution.

So they want you to feel comfortable by claiming they are in a highly regulated country while they actually run under Belize laws. VERY interesting. :Oh crap

AdultKing 10-20-2010 03:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quagmire (Post 17624672)
Interesting that item (e) states they are registered in Belize and is directly contradicted by one of their reps in a post on the boards.

I don't know if it's a contradiction or not, however the off shore notion is so similar to ePassporte isn't it ? Anyone with half a brain knows Belize is synonymous with almost zero regulation of financial services and offshore schemes harboring funds from tax schemes and so forth.

Hermes 10-20-2010 04:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdultKing (Post 17624665)
Actually Moneybookers is a different system all together and subject to different regulations because of it falling under the regulatory regimes of the United Kingdom and it's structure forbids it to 'speculate on monies received by it on behalf of individuals or corporations' which is designated to be transferred. However the legislation covering speculative investment of Moneybookers funds only applies to money which originates and has a destination within the greater European economic zones. They can do what they like with money received outside of that.

Yes Moneybookers runs under different regulations, but it's an ewallet too, and that proves that it is possible to run epass kind of service without using fractional reserve system or gambling with customer's money. (Although ironically they are used mostly in gambling/poker sites, but that is user's own decicion, not ewallet's.)

I don't really know from where did Mallick got money for movie producing, but he's been around for long time, epassporte alone for 7 years. And still he has already several other movies in production. But I agree that the silence and stalling doesn't look good and it's time to take some action very soon.

AdultKing 10-20-2010 04:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hermes (Post 17624696)
Yes Moneybookers runs under different regulations, but it's an ewallet too, and that proves that it is possible to run epass kind of service without using fractional reserve system or gambling with customer's money. (Although ironically they are used mostly in gambling/poker sites, but that is user's own decicion, not ewallet's.)

Moneybookers actually can do what it likes with money not originating or destined for the UK or the greater European economic zone. It is unknown whether it runs a fractional risk system for the remainder of funds. Moneybookers transacts a huge amount of Asian funds, it's highly represented as a payment method for Asian online casinos etc.

The FSA only protects funds originating or destined for UK / Europe.

Ethersync 10-20-2010 04:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdultKing (Post 17624682)
I don't know if it's a contradiction or not, however the off shore notion is so similar to ePassporte isn't it ? Anyone with half a brain knows Belize is synonymous with almost zero regulation of financial services and offshore schemes harboring funds from tax schemes and so forth.

Doesn't Payoneer use the same bank in Belize for their International debit cards?

AdultKing 10-20-2010 04:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ethersync (Post 17624700)
Doesn't Payoneer use the same bank in Belize for their International debit cards?

Payoneer says on their website:

Quote:

Payoneer is headquartered in New York City and employs over 100 experienced financial and technology professionals. We are a registered MasterCard Merchant Service Provider (MSP), and partner with Choice Bank Limited to deliver our services. Privately held, our funding partners include Greylock Partners, Carmel Ventures, and Crossbar Capital.
Choice Bank Limited says on their website

Quote:

Choice Bank Limited is an offshore international bank chartered in Belize, offering financial solutions for companies and associations, as well as high net worth individual clients. Choice Bank Limited consists of two separate business units: Choice Capital Private Banking and Choice Bank Card Services.
So yes you are correct.

BIGTYMER 10-20-2010 04:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdultKing (Post 17624604)
Unfortunately ePassporte being a foreign company escapes alot of regulation of financial services companies in the USA. Even then my limited reading of the Money Services Business regulations over the past few days leads me to believe that even if ePassporte was required to be registered, there is little enforcement power available to regulators.

I really do want a Paxum rep to state definitively how much of account holders funds will be actually held in accounts by Paxum and what measures are in place to protect account holders funds if Paxum loses relationships with card companies. How is Paxum in a different position to ePassporte when it comes to account holders funds ?

Yes, I know. My response was more about regulations in general. Food, water, etc.

slowloris 10-20-2010 04:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the indigo (Post 17624451)
Anybody should watch "Money As Debt" on Youtube.

It's very well done and explains how the money works.
And guess what? 99% of the people have no idea.

Totally Agree! If everyone in the world or just the US, lost faith in the fact that a dollar bill could actually be exchanged for something we needed or wanted - the whole system would collapse. A dollar bill is effectively something we have been trained to believe has some worth, but really it's just paper.

At least when money was pegged to gold we could at least guarantee that we could get gold in exchange, which is worth something due to its scarcity. But so long as we believe a piece of paper is worth something, money can be printed endlessly, and those who control the printing presses have the true power. Forgive me if my terminology is slightly incorrect, and my argument slightly incoherrant - a little drunk here. But I have much more to say on this issue, and will do so when sober!

AdultKing 10-20-2010 04:59 AM

Paxum have said in another thread:

Quote:

All funds in the E-wallet are sitting in our Bank Accounts. We do not use that for investment purposes. We also have an additional 10-20% of additional funds in the bank accounts. So if all Paxum users decided to withdraw their money in one day, they would be able to do so without any problems. For every 100,000 USD in Paxum we have anywhere from 100,000 to 120,000 USD in the bank account. Of course that might change later on but it will never been less then 100% of the funds.
Just posting this as I raised the question in this thread and Paxum have responded.

brassmonkey 10-20-2010 05:50 AM

ill wait till friday then.....

nexus868 10-20-2010 06:36 AM

PXUM is the same of epassporte...and i'm sure they have relationship....for sure Mallick has business with PAXUM...

My opinion: PAXUS was founded as CLONE of EPASSPORTE to prevent or in prevision of the end of business of EPASSPORTE.

For sure EPASSPORTE will not pay all money to all webmaster because effectivly they invest our money in private project like Middle Man. So to remain in business Mallick decided to found this new company PAXUM.

When the worse arrived he immediatly sent back to all big sponsors money ( for sure Mallick knws in person all big boss of the ADULT ) and suggest them to switch to PAXUM his new big company that works like epassporte but apparently has fixed all security holes of epassporte )

We cannot do anythink he will be in business again with new name....we cannot oppose ourself to this new situation...but i'm sure that this is possible...

I live in a country where thinks like that happens every day...

nexus868 10-20-2010 06:40 AM

In my country people like Mallick steal money and after doing very bad thinks they start again... Where are money...they are behind...

AdultKing 10-20-2010 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nexus868 (Post 17624991)
PXUM is the same of epassporte...and i'm sure they have relationship....for sure Mallick has business with PAXUM...

What a rant. There is no evidence of this and it is quite unlikely, there is zero evidence to support this idea.

nexus868 10-20-2010 06:50 AM

but is possible...there is no evidence also to not support...

nexus868 10-20-2010 06:52 AM

Additionally i found this in epassporte.com whois:

Record created on: 2002-03-21 12:20:01.0
Database last updated on: 2009-09-28 18:38:27.487
Domain Expires on: 2011-03-21 12:20:01.0

As you can see they not renewed their domain for 2012... ok they can renew the domain every year this is possible...but a so big company that renew the domain every year ? Normally they renew also i renew for 2 years... many big one for 10 years....but year by year is very strange...

Adraco 10-20-2010 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nexus868 (Post 17625025)
but is possible...there is no evidence also to not support...

Well, that's a stupid argument and not a valid one. Because with the same argument, I could also be God - because there is no evidence to support that I'm not...

Argument thus invalid.

AdultKing 10-20-2010 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nexus868 (Post 17625025)
but is possible...there is no evidence also to not support...

Stop posting on this subject dude, you're looking stupid. :321GFY

nexus868 10-20-2010 07:00 AM

Ok i'm stupid like you say....but i know that this kind of think happen many times where i live... In USA all people are onest and clean...i can understand..

u-Bob 10-20-2010 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nexus868 (Post 17625031)
Normally they renew also i renew for 2 years... many big one for 10 years....but year by year is very strange...

no it's not.... hell, even Microsoft let a couple domains expire accidentally :)

Barry-xlovecam 10-20-2010 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdultKing
[E]ach and every person in the US should file a criminal complaint against the US citizen operator of ePassporte, Chris Mallick. ...

You actually think a prosecuting attorney would take this to a grand jury and be able to get a felony indictment?

ePassporte NV ( Dissolved ) is/was not operating in US state or federal jurisdiction.

The FDIC is irrelevant in this matter of ePassporte.

Filing a class action lawsuit alleging what and in what jurisdiction?

What you are neglecting to understand is that if any fraud could be proven — fraud committed by ePassporte NV is that by its Officers or Directors and is in the jurisdiction of Curaçao, Netherlands Antilles. (Venue.)

As a US citizen, Chris Mallick is in the jurisdiction of the US Courts. And only if intent to defraud can be alleged successfully before a Grand Jury resulting in a criminal indictment and an arrest warrant signed can he be prosecuted as an individual.

I agree with you as to loss and possible swindle aspect of this affair but as to your rationalizations — they are of little use and not relevant to the real issues.
========
Quote:

BELIZE
OFFSHORE BANKING ACT
CHAPTER 267


PART II
Licensing Requirements

4.-(1) No person shall carry on offshore banking business from within Belize
unless he holds a valid licence granted under this Act.


PART III
Types and Requirements of Offshore
Banking Licences

17.-(1) No company shall apply for, or obtain, or be eligible to hold, a “B”
Class offshore banking licence under this Act unless it maintains at all times
capital equivalent to not less than two hundred thousand dollars or, in the case
of a foreign bank, not less than fifteen million dollars. The capital shall be
expressed in dollars or in any other foreign currency as the Central Bank may
approve in writing.


chronig 10-20-2010 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TylerBang (Post 17624450)
And why was this guy Larry Chavana pretending to help me before he just fucking disappeared?

http://oi52.tinypic.com/1077yxg.jpg

And what the fuck is that look on his face?

Would you knowingly trust him with tens of thousands of your dollars?

lollllllllllllllllllllllll wtf?

epitome 10-20-2010 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stocktrader23 (Post 17624389)
I'm not going to act like I'm an expert on the banking laws, especially in whatever country Epassporte was setup in but I know that I have checked on stuff like this before and everything I read on it said that if you hold customers money YOU HAVE TO KEEP IT IN FULL, IN A SEPARATE ACCOUNT. You cannot borrow it, steal it, pay employees with it, etc.

Correct, all funds should have been held in what was essentially a trust/escrow account. They should have had separate operating accounts if properly structured.

Whether Epassporte actually did that is the real question.

It's just like when you give a deposit check to a real estate broker; it goes into an escrow account and is never co-mingled with their operating funds. If they deposit it into their operating funds they will lose their license if caught.

epitome 10-20-2010 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chronig (Post 17625296)
lollllllllllllllllllllllll wtf?

I love Amanda Lepore.

She was one of Michael Alig's original party kids.

Carmen80 10-20-2010 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdultKing (Post 17624305)
Each and every person in the US should file a criminal complaint against the US citizen operator of ePassporte, Chris Mallick.

I have already explained why I believe that ePassporte will not pay out in other threads but here it is again:

For ePassporte to be in a position to pay out every account, at the time of closing the doors ePassporte would have needed over 100% of wallet funds in cash or security. This is extremely unlikely.

Most financial services institutions like banks and p2p processors like Paypal only hold a percentage of liabilities in security. This is why they have things like FDIC insurance in the USA and one of the reasons they need an Australing Financial Services license in Australia.

Let's take Paypal as an example. If every single Paypal customer made a full withdrawal of every cent held in their Paypal account then Paypal would run out of money before everyone could be paid. This is because they run models of the transactional nature of the business and this model takes into account that at any particular point in time a certain percentage of account holder funds will remain in the system.

In banking terms this is called fractional reserve banking.

HOWEVER ePassporte was not governed by any regulatory regime which required it to be insured for all account holders funds and thus likely did not have the generally accepted levels of security for banking institutions or regulated and insured organizations like Paypal.

Not being governed by a regulatory regime means that ePassporte was free to carry as much account holder liability mismatch as it wanted to. This liability mismatch funded movies being made, private jets, expensive cars, the expensive lifestyles of executives and so forth.

While ePassporte was running along without any hitch, even with a low fractional reserve liability mismatch they could honour recurrent liability of the normal flow of money within it's system. As soon as Visa pulled it's relationship, the stack of cards fell in one instant and has caused a run on ePassporte funds, firstly those held in Virtual Visa Cards and Secondly those in wallets.

Unless ePassporte ran the system with no fractional reserve liability (which is not possible for such an operation) then there is less than 100% of account holders funds held by ePassporte. I would be surprised if they held anything over 20% - 30% as the lavish lifestyle of Chris Mallick had to be supported by something and as we all know his other buisiness ventures, especially film making, were flops or underperforming at best.

What is likely to be happening now is this.

Closing down an operation like ePassporte takes time. Firstly staff were let go and many would have been paid a severance or termination. Then lawyers and accountants would have been called in to try to make sense of the mess, also costing a considerable amount.

Following up this ePassporte had to make some sort of public statement so has done so and has been following this up over several weeks with additional statements of re-assurance but no real action. In the mean time secured creditors are likely being paid out quietly. Chris Mallick wants to come out of this without impediment to movement around the world so he wants to be sure that no funds are left owing to secured creditors.

This will leave a small percentage of representative wallet funds remaining. I imagine invested monies are now being called in. The most likely scenario is that when all secured creditors are paid out somewhere between 0% - 15% of wallet funds will remain.

The most likely tactic that will follow is that ePassporte will pay out the most vocal critics or if they aren't that clever they will make enough disbursements that confusion will be created. Some people will say they got paid, others wont. This will buy just enough time before the liquidation statutes of the jurisdiction in which ePassporte operates will allow final distributions of funds - this will go to shareholders and into Chris Mallicks pockets.

Very few people will see the money returned because it is just not there, it's gone.


People owed considerable monies by ePassporte should file class action lawsuits NOW before the process is allowed to complete. This should also be backed up by criminal complaints - insist that your complaint is taken.

If you keep buying the delaying tactics and waiting it out then you are playing into Chris Mallick's hand and as unsecured creditors of ePassporte you will be left swinging in the wind.

This explains everything and I think finally there is a theory that isnt retarded.

And if it's legal for them to use a big chunk of the money for investments like you said, then most likely mallick has looked up all legal aspects, and when epass goes down for sure, it will be pointless to even attempt to sue him or contact a lawyer.

I bet the reason why the visa's was suspended is because st kitts bank knew how mallick misused the epass money and they decided to lock the visa funds so he cant steal more money from epass account holders once it all goes down.

I am well aware that I wont get back my 4k and honestly I dont give a fuck anymore. And for the people with 10k+ on their epass accounts, you WONT get it back but I bet this will be a wakeup call for you all. Don't keep your shit online.

Quagmire 10-20-2010 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdultKing (Post 17624682)
I don't know if it's a contradiction or not, however the off shore notion is so similar to ePassporte isn't it ? Anyone with half a brain knows Belize is synonymous with almost zero regulation of financial services and offshore schemes harboring funds from tax schemes and so forth.

All I know is that I won't be setting up an account and have zero faith in them as a true company. They're just another fly-by-night operation who will vanish.

AdultKing 10-20-2010 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quagmire (Post 17625617)
All I know is that I won't be setting up an account and have zero faith in them as a true company. They're just another fly-by-night operation who will vanish.

I think it's a bit early to make any judgements one way or the other.

Obviously many people are not going to be trusting a new payment system after being burned by the last but there is no evidence Paxum is a fly by night operation.

butcherboy 10-20-2010 01:15 PM

+1

Quote:

Originally Posted by stocktrader23 (Post 17624389)
Epassporte was setup in but I know that I have checked on stuff like this before and everything I read on it said that if you hold customers money YOU HAVE TO KEEP IT IN FULL, IN A SEPARATE ACCOUNT. You cannot borrow it, steal it, pay employees with it, etc.

Also every business could suffer by 'world financial crisis' BUT Mr. Mallick and ePassporte.com continue to make statements that "Money are safe", "Money will be paid"...So if this is not true this obviously is financial fraud - to lie people with false statements.

Carmen80 10-20-2010 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesus H Christ (Post 17626106)
When will you people learn?...it was all about the timing. Chris Mallick had perfect timing or he was just damn lucky and Barry-xlovecam nailed it.

We live in an era of billion dollar bailouts, failed banks, mortgage foreclosures, predatory lending, and Ponzi schemes. Do you actually think filing a criminal complaint about a company who stole millions dollars from pornographers is going to get any attention from US Federal/State prosecutors? Christ, it's also a fucking election year!

Federal/State prosecutors already have their hands full with everyday folks getting taken and do you actually think they will spend our tax dollars trying to recover/defend a person who makes a living from a guy getting his ass fucked by his buddies forehead dildo?

What you need to do is STFU and get over it because all you're doing is drawing attention to yourselves. Like that moron crying all over the net he lost a $225k. You do realize that it won't be long before State/Fed prosecutors nail many of you and seize funds because of simple Community Standard laws...or whatever other shit they make up?

Meaning, Cities, Counties, States, are close to being broke and make money for their community by prosecuting you. Win or lose they still make money.:2 cents:

Right now it's all about fucking up his rep so whining is good.

Posting shit about him online or making a hate domain are two good things. He might steal our money and we cant get it back, but we can fuck up his rep for a long time. That gotta be worth something.

the indigo 10-20-2010 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stocktrader23 (Post 17624453)
Is this more fractional reserve b/s? There is nothing wrong with fractional reserve in the BANKING system. There are regulations and backups put in place to keep things operating and it puts more 'money' into the system. This is not OMG bad like a lot of nutjob sites suggest.

It's really simple and explain a lot more than just fractional reserve banking. It covers the history of money, before the FED was created.

If you want something longer and detailled, watch "Money Masters" (3hrs+)

It's an oxymoron to pretend regulations and backups keep things operational. The 2008 crisis would not exists. The FDIC would be bankrupt if it was not of QE... and now QE2.

the indigo 10-20-2010 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by u-Bob (Post 17624573)
The entire banking system is a government-sanctioned ponzischeme. The government makes the taxpayer pick up the tab when things go wrong (bailout anyone?).

Exactly. The Federal Reserve System created in 1913 by private bankers was the first, but it's now the same in Canada and any other country. They are above the law. Ben Bernanke does not care about the congress.

stocktrader23 lives in a dream or something.

MMarko 10-20-2010 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slowloris (Post 17624725)
Totally Agree! If everyone in the world or just the US, lost faith in the fact that a dollar bill could actually be exchanged for something we needed or wanted - the whole system would collapse. A dollar bill is effectively something we have been trained to believe has some worth, but really it's just paper.

I just don't understand those who repeat these lame statements (often seen in even lamer "how money works" documentaries) over and over again. ALL things you use for any type of exchange work like that if they are not primary goods like food. Now isn't it better to make argreement (or "train to believe that is worth") and use something more conventient like piece of paper or event better piece of plastic? :Oh crap

Also by having fractional system you can invest and actually make some progress and build those fancy cars, rockets, planes, bridges... It's better to make some use of that money and generate some new value then leave it to rot in your bank account. Why would all people want all of their money today? Only reason is if they are afraid if they are not everything works perfect.

icymelon 10-20-2010 05:57 PM

lets give this thing a few more weeks and hope everyone gets their money.

TeenSluts 10-20-2010 07:29 PM

rep rep rep

V_RocKs 10-25-2010 07:02 PM

I fucked all of your mothers. Hey, kids! Daddy, says chello!

AdultKing 11-23-2010 06:16 PM

Bump for the people hoping to be paid out by ePassporte. Go get a lawyer or a hitman, whatever you need to do but don't expect ePassporte to pay you just by playing their send documents and wait for wire game.

You need to be proactive now to have any hope of even getting a few cents on the dollar. Nobody will be paid just by waiting for it to happen.

Forest 11-23-2010 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carmen80 (Post 17626405)
Right now it's all about fucking up his rep so whining is good.

Posting shit about him online or making a hate domain are two good things. He might steal our money and we cant get it back, but we can fuck up his rep for a long time. That gotta be worth something.

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