Fiddy Shapalicious business threads.
:pimp

Most logical thread on this topic. You have to give people something worth paying for. Many will say that the amount of content on the tubes is simply too much to compete with, so compete in other ways. 1 on 1 attention with clients, community feel to your members area, target specific niches, listen to requests, offer HD streaming, direct downloads, conversions to any format, etc. It's very possible to still have a very very attractive product in this day and age. It will however take a bit more work, and the margins will be lower compared to the past. But that is after all what capitalism and competition is meant to bring to the consumer - illegal tubes or not it is heading that way.

Good thinking :thumbsup

What email? Where did you send it?

I think a lot of the first generation did and then in the past 5 years haven't. They haven't experienced the excitement of buying something and then the let down of not getting something as advertised and then the frustration of going through customer support and the horror of seeing your credit card raped to death :(

To mrshap at twistys dot com

Will resend it.

I disagree. You think major brands in the industry will experience a more than 99.999% drop in profits in the next 3 years? Wow. I sure hope you've already jumped off this sinking ship

My experience of meeting a lot of people in the Internet porn industry is they are programmers and computer orientated people. Some are free surfers who would never buy porn, as well. Not a great combination for selling porn on the Internet.

The only way to compete with Tube sites is what's inside your members area. It's impossible to compete in quantity of content or traffic. If the content of the members area isn't worth buying trying to sell it by sheer numbers of traffic is self defeating in the long run. It just educates the surfer not to buy.

found it right after i made my post and replied :thumbsup

Good thread Shap. I tried stating the same thing over a year ago.

-- http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showthread.php?t=940815

People in this industry just don't understand. The website I'm working on right now is incredible. The key is what the member gets, and it's not just login and view some pics and videos. Sorry, but if I want some pics or vids to jerk off to, I can go get that somewhere for free. If you're trying to sell me something, porn better not be your starting line. No one seems to understand that in this industry. There's potential to make a fucking killing right now. It'd be like stealing candy from a baby while they all have their heads up their asses.

And replied to your reply.

What we are doing now is I go hug each person after they sign up. Alot of traveling but its worth it. Im thinking of cross selling some deodorant.
Seriously you guys spend way too much time over thinking this. Do your best produce a site you would be proud to join.That's all you can really do and you will raise above the rest. A member requests to cancel we ask why. They say I lost my job, we thank them for their membership and give them a free month. They are stunned we do that. That person gets a job they come back to us.

BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That is how to run a business. One by one building long term clients.

That's a whole different rant. Do you know how many "non-industry" friends I have that are banging the "industry" girl of their dreams these days.

All you have to do is roll into any porn party talk some smack, lay down some drugs and you are in. And if that doesn't work call one of the agency's and book a private.

The fantasy in this industry is dead. Everyone has access so people that actually do have respect enough to pay don't see the need, when they can live it in the normal lives.

No the fantasy isn't dead. The ability to create it in a scene is dead though.

You came up with a great idea for a scene. Guy talks to a girl at a party and gets her to have sex with him. Or he books a pornstar hooker and films it. With or without her knowing.

The problem toady is so much content is just a girl on a bad and there's no fantasy.

What is the matter with you people?! All of you! It sounds like everyone has lost touch with the market as well as all of their creativity...

Let's talk about scenes... the fastest traveling porn (viral) I've seen in the past 6 months is actually... themed porn, nay... more like... themed softcore. You need to take into consideration what's hot NOW. As a single example would be the Steampunk theme... Have you SEEN how fast those pictures travel across the web?!

http://littledeathray.com/

The images on that site have flown across the tubes... and I bet someone here could hit that same demographic even better than that little dinky one shoot site. In fact I would go so far as to say you could do a few themed shoots straight out of your advertising budget... not content budget. You need to learn how to play the new game. You can't leverage popular social sites right now because of adult content restrictions. So build out well themed landers that have no adult content... spread the content across the tubes... you could easily land images on Geekologie, hawtness, etc... That is a shit ton of traffic and you know what's missing from every Steampunk themed set out there that I can find? Nudity / Porn... People want it, a large percentage of the demographic that content appeals to overlaps the paying demographic, and you can use it to bring in alternate traffic sources nobody else in adult is tapping.

There are far more themes too... like where is the gentleman's porn brand like Playboy used to be? I'm sure something could be recreated on a smaller scale. I envision erotic nudes and solo content shot in some creative locations that appeal, once again, to the target demographic. e.g. book a nice golf club as a shoot location and do high quality sets in different locations around the club... keeping inline with the same target demographic... high stakes / back room tables at casinos, high rise office spaces, private jets, etc... With a brand and content offering this "high society" I would also offer an actual printed annual book of all the top shots and girls that is included with your YEARLY membership plan... I'd also publish that same yearly and have it distributed to traditional markets in order to both solidify the brand as well as act as advertising. "This book is free with your XXXX membership"...

That's just off the top of my head... there are so many fantastic directions to go!

And to purposefully digress... I would say that there has never been a better time to get into the adult biz. Everyone will probably think I'm crazy but I'll bullet point some reasons:

1) The industry hasn't evolved the way mainstream has and the product offerings are sub par compared to mainstream.

2) No angels and VCs - Lack of investors mean that only two types of people can start a business; those with money and those willing to put in sweat equity (a lot of it). This is a fringe benefit for everyone else as it keeps big players out of the business (porn stigma obviously massively contributes to this)

3 & 4) Market Instability & Scared dollars - #2 (above) leaves only one type of person who can (and is willing) to fund a venture in the adult arena; the ones currently in adult who have capital. However, because of the market uncertainty most of these dollars are "scared"... the owners of the dollars are unwilling to invest in new ideas.

The adult industry right now is in a state that fosters underdogs and those willing to continue to spend through the slump. There are about 40 directions you can go in with adult right now and any one of them can be profitable if you know what you're doing and keep the focus on where it should be; perceived value to the user. There are TONS of fringe related things that can be offered to members but I'm not going to speculate on or divulge any more of them here :P

Whoops, this describes me to a T. :Oh crap

Hits the nail on the head.

Sub par prices for content = sub par content = produces sub par results.

It's real rocket science I know but if I can get it.................... :1orglaugh

The only thing we can do that tubes can't, is to send a DMCA takedown notice.

Great post..yea, switching things up and yes..STEAMPUNK is HOT..I'm writing/drawing a new erotic vampire Steampunk graphic novel for 2011
http://i.rwpic.com/images/ninavain/2..._5619424_n.jpg
http://i.rwpic.com/images/ninavain/2..._7060421_n.jpg
http://i.rwpic.com/images/ninavain/3..._7829112_n.jpg
http://i.rwpic.com/images/ninavain/3..._3119562_n.jpg
http://i.rwpic.com/images/ninavain/3..._5356833_n.jpg


it's an example of trying something NEW FRESH DIFFERENT in your site...example in SOLO GIRL sites..try other micro niches that guys may have not stumbled across yet..like Lapdance, Jerk Off encouragement, Ass Shaking..I make a killing off that softcore stuff...but can't sell much to old school thinking webmasters...but thats why some can still make $$$ and some can't. Great eye opening post..

hell guys add some comics in the members area..get the surfer to sit and look/read enjoy his time inside

Homegrown Video, the creative side of amateur porn
 

Excellent post, great suggestions!

We look for creative ways to engage the members. Simple but effective way to increase retention.

It's indeed a great post but its difficult to engage members and to keep their interest so they will return.

The problem is that if you compare this industry with a big shopping male, they all shop for free where some of the merchants use "stolen goods" from others.

Even if you skip this problem the consumers from today are smart and have many other ways to to spend their time on the web.

Improving your site and make it better compared with Tube sites will not help, because why should they pay if elsewhere the will get it for free.

The only way will be if you continue to built on your brand (fantasy) / quality of content and update frequency plus embracing new technologies and marketing concepts to monetize your stuff and retain your member base.

Personally I'm aiming on technology and new coming devices because that change the landscape we are working in 360 degrees.

I doubt that.

1. Look at the average porn tube, for example youporn.com or pornhub.com. You´ll find a big variety of niches you can choose from, recommended videos, most voted and most viewed scenes. All the previes are searchable. There are cams, livesex offers and you can join the community as well. And last but not least they are available in different languages, well translated.

I can´t think of any paysite that offers all that for free. Even if you join it is most likely that you won´t get the functionality of a tube. Assuming all tubes steal content (I don´t do so), you can´t say they are stealing design and functionality.

2. Tubes are updated several times a day. Many paysites are not even updated once a month or they rotate content.

3. Tubes offer 24/7 support for users, regardless of wether they are paying or not. Try to contact support of an average paysite ad you´ll feel the difference.

That´s why i think a paysite owner can do a lot besides sending out DMCA´s. But of course you can´t rely on a market behaviour of fifty years ago.

Yeah. Good question to think about.
And if you answer positive ask yourself the second question... If your paysite has a free site clone with just the same content (pics & vids) how would your traffic do? Would surfers prefer your paysite to your free site clone?
If you answer positive then you are ready to compete with tube sites and with any site based on stolen content.
Shap, is your twistys.com ready to compete with free-twistys-clone.com?

Pornhub for example sells a premium membership. So it´s not all for free and obviously they make a profit off it, else they wouldn´t offer it.

And all other tubes are not for free either. Though the surfer can watch the clips for free, tubes seem to be able to monetize advertising, cams, dating and other stuff offered on their sites.

Assume all content on tubes is published legally and licensed. I claim that this wouldn´t make any difference. The surfer will still prefer a tube to an oldfashioned paysite. So I think stolen content is a problem, but not the reason for surfers to prefer tubes.

I believe so. I may be wrong but I'm confident it what we've got going on right now.

I'm seeing more Twistys on tubes, Shap my man. You guys should've been doing that months if not years ago.

What I'm trying to do, since i'm essentially a one-man operation, is to prioritize and do what's most important, like finishing building my network. I should be more-or-less finished with that once I launch my next four sites (two already finished) this year. Next year: traffic generation and self-traffic generation.

As for giving Members what they want: it's critical, of course, and if you're fortunate enough to have models/producers who are willing to provide that more-or-less constant contributions then you're golden. If not, then you have to be creative, like ol' Mister P. heh heh But even I, the one-man show, am constantly adding new features, like DVD downloads, or feeds, or bonus sites, etc etc to keep things fresh. You almost have to at this point.

It would be more a common scenario than brands who have increased their income by 99% in the past 3 years correct?

Promoting porn on tubes and the likes is becoming less lucrative than promoting non adult related products like casinos. Eventually the tubes will want to cash out, I think there will be more non adult buyers around than adult.

Then the industry's traffic passes to those who have a total no interest in adult or at least don't need to make money from it.. except for the traffic generation. They won't care about promoting your skank products anymore.

Your left with your own tubes running ad's all over them competing with tubes that have virtually none, they will just take something like the popunder and actually save money on what they currently pay.

As for the boat, I did not jump off, I just changed ships
Biz is up 25% this quarter.. hows yours?

Mine is up 68.2% from last quarter.

You paint with too wide a brush Grasshopper.

What some people refuse to get is Tubes don't survive on people who want it all for free. They survive on $$$$.

But finding an excuse for failure is easier than finding a solution.

:2 cents:

Back before I could get everyone's sites via site rips or tubes, and back when tours were small and you couldn't beat off looking at them, I was a porn consumer.

Not once did I join a site for value or to be part of a community. I joined it because they had something on the tour I HAD to see more of. The price was not really an issue so long as it wasn't over $30. I would, get my fix, and probably cancel BECAUSE I've yet to find a site out there who had updates that were equal to the one photo or video I joined for. At best, I would stay to see more of the girl I joined for.

Now, I can get everything any of us sell for free and without any risk to my credit card or personal data. I can beat off just looking at tours because trailers show too much and the photos are so large and explicit.

I know I'm just one type of a consumer, but there are millions of guys like me and we will never pay for porn again, no matter what you offer. Why would we?

why do people who can't see any future in porn continue? serious question?

go sell cars or something.

No offense to you DWB ole buddy. But this thinking is flawed.

This is assuming everyone can get off to the same thing. Also that anything, and everything, 'hits da spot'. It is this thinking that inhibits many in the adult industry apparently. Not everyone can get off to some cheap, poorly encoded, generic porn. Clips4Sale has shown people this (i.e. customized, personalized, tailored fresh porn).

As previously pointed out in many threads, you have people willing to PAY $9.99+ for a SINGLE 9 minute scene. There are people who repeatedly buy under this business model on a daily basis. So if a CLIP STORE can sell a SINGLE SCENE for $9.99 and you can't sell 100 or 1000 scenes, hours of content, tons of models, for $29.95 a month, then you need to dig deeper as to why you can't sell porn any longer. As you have clearly lost touch with the consumer. Their wants, and needs.

Keep in mind, not directed at you per se. Simply works better in first person.
:winkwink:

Some excellent points. I have found, that by showing LESS on the tours - less pics, smaller sized thumbs, trailers UNDER 45 seconds even - that sales go UP.

There was this obsession over the past few years of "make everything BIG"! It's all about the thumbs, right? So let's make 'em HUGE!!!!!!! Yah, so dudes can whack it to the GIANT THUMBS? No thanks. DWB is right about that.

BUT.....


BF is ALSO right because clip stores DO sell high-priced clips. Hmmm....so what could be the issue here then? Sell a clip for ten bucks, can't sell a Membership for thirty...hmmmm....

Memberships mean "commitment" - I am JOINING SOMETHING - and many, many people don't want that kind of commitment. HOWEVER: it's all about presentation and fantasy. The clip store says, in essence, "This is a one-of-a-kind kinky, dirty porn clip here folks - grab it!" And people do.

Paysites? "Join us and you'll get x,y,z AND updates!!! What a VALUE!" And guess what? People Join.

So it all depends on the vibe you got going, and if you know how to maximize that vibe, turn it into a fantasy for the surfer, and then close the sale.

The point is...

1. Surfers WILL PAY A PREMIUM and still buy porn.
2. Surfers will PAY for PORN if it actually fulfills a need or want to them.

Clips stores hold an advantage. They typically are very focused niches. They take customer feedback. They turn it around in 1-2 weeks. So what do you have here?

3. Tailored porn
4. Customer interaction

Quality customer tailored content, which has nothing to do with HD. This is basically the Walmart method of sales, or business model that has been talked about at length. Pull versus PUSH. It's no wonder why Clips Stores are successful. Same as Walmart. If you have not adapted to this type of business, you simply need to go sell shoes.
:2 cents:

No, that was just MY mind and I was an avid porn consumer for about 15 years. However, there are millions of guys just like me.

I sold porn when it was only available via VHS and mail order photos. I sold porn when it moved to DVD and digital photos. Now I've been selling porn online for close to 13 years now. It is not as complicated as everyone makes it out to be. Some try too hard to analyze it and forget that 9 times out of 10 it's just a guy wanting to blow his load. Now, if you want to aim for that 1 out of 10 who wants an experience, go for it. I'm gonna stick with my 9, as it's never failed me.

Sure, you have some people who are willing to buy anything at any price, but the majority of them still simply want to rub one off and get back to whatever it is they were doing, and do so before the wife or GF comes home. The reason for wanting porn has not changed simply because the manner in which we deliver it to them has.

Bottom line is, build the best sites you can in a niche you enjoy, take care of your members, and try to keep piracy under control. Trying to turn it into a science is a waste of time. There is NO logic when it comes to a man with a hard cock in his hand and 2 balls ready to blow. Any of you with a penis should know this already. :2 cents:

True dat champ.
:2 cents:

Clips4sale has held steady for me since I started shooting Niche scenes in '07
some guys will pay a shit load for a few clips, while membership sites go down..here's a sale just got an hour ago...btw none of these clips feature nudity...just sayin' switch yo shit up and u will keep poppin'..tubes usually have the same fuckin sucking, anal,gangbang..typical LA PORN stuff...I branched out and have good success with niches/fetishes..plus this same customer sent $200 m.o. for a pair this model's panty..now that is a devoted member..Hell I've been given as much as $5k from a customer to "help-out" a model with her bills...and Thats been done several times..I have proof from members of this board to vouch for that...

Store ID: 17010
CRUEL CHLOE I WIGGLE MY ASS AND YOU JERK OFF VOL.3 -- WMV $3.99
BRAT CHLOE- MY ASS IS ALL YOU NEED TO GET BY-hi def 720p wmv $4.99
BRAT CHLOE- IT'S TIME FOR YOU TO CLEAN MY ASS PIG-hi def 720p wmv $4.99
CRUEL CHLOE- SHINY PANTY POV AS YOU CHOKE OFF A LOAD FROM COCK---avi $5.99
CRUEL CHLOE- MASTURBATOR'S DELIGHT-CUM TO MY ASS VOL.2-LARGE AVI $4.99
CRUEL CHLOE- RUB ONE OUT TO MY MY SWEET LITTLE ROUND ASS , U ARE SOOO ADDICTED TO ME-large wmv$6.99
CRUEL CHLOE- QUICK YOU ONLY HAVE A FEW MINUTES TO JERK OFF TO MY ASS BEFORE WIFEY GETS HOME VOL.7--WMV$4.99
MEAN CHLOE- EAT MY ASSHOLE OUT YOU NASTY FUCKER-- MP4,CELLPHONES, IPODS $7.99
CRUEL CHLOE- I TEASE YOU WITH A PEEK-A-BOO OF MY BUTTHOLE- hi def wmv $5.99
Totals $50.91

You just stated the secret of success of a great solo girl site. I'm rich because of that.

Let me bloviate a bit on that: Being a guy whose curious as to what my members are doing in the members area...I have an admin so I can see which videos they are watching. And you know what? 99% of the guys who join have ONE video that they jerk to over and over. Yes, they always watch the latest update too. But each day you'll see them go back to "old faithful" over and over.

And I realized that I have always been the same way too. Back in the day I had a gonzo "mix" tape videotape of just hardcore scenes. And there was this ONE scene with this girl who had fake tits...but the implants weren't big enough for the skin. So the implant itself was like a tennis ball in a tube sock. And she got the living hell fucked out of her and those big titties DESTROYED in that scene. And even though I had a couple hundred scenes on that video...I would always fast forward the VCR to her scene when it came time to blow my load.

The day the VCR ate that tape back in the mid-1990's was a sad, sad day for me.

I'm one of those guys. Once I find my fix, I can look at it over and over and over again UNTIL I my brain shifts and I want a new fantasy, but I will always come back to one that got me off hard, be it a single photo or video.

Another thing I know to be true in my case (as to why I no longer buy porn) is the collection I've built over the years. I have a folder, perfectly categorized, of every type of girl, build, race, or fantasy I've ever jacked off to. It's my personal Rolodex of amazing fantasies and perfect whores.

And thus the problem we have with stolen content and piracy. How many of my scenes got out there on torrents and tubes that were THE one for a potential customer?

6 or 7 BILLION people in the world. My stolen vids seen by millions...if only 1,000 of those people had bought a membership based on that ONE video that was THE one for them that's 30 grand a month I'm losing right there.

Very true. Besides, why NOT have a clip store in addition to whatever else one is doing? Makes sense - but people have limiting ways, I guess. :1orglaugh

At the end of the day, for me, or for anyone doing this porn thing AS A BUSINESS, it comes down to this:

#1. You dig what you're doing. It's fun for you besides being profitable, you run a site(s) you yourself would join. You feel connected to your Members because they're kinda like you; they like what you like, it's your own little perverted community of sorts, which is a big part of the fun. Hundreds (or hopefully thousands) of people who ALSO love blowjobs, feet, big tits, whatever. Awesome my friend! Come right on in....
#2. You care about $ and NOTHING ELSE. Porn is a lemon so squeeze that baby til every drop drips out and when you're done, move on to the next lemon (casinos, cigs, what-the-fuck-EVER). So you could care less about your "members". Fuck 'em, they're gonna cancel eventually anyway. I got their $ so fuck 'em.

Am I right?

I choose Option #1.

You?

Cue gideongallery's Delorian to take you into the cloud....
:winkwink:

paysite doesn't equal ethical. there are so many large paysites ripping off other contents. at least with tubes, they have a form to submit dmca. but what do you do with a paysite ripping a producer's entire content ?

I have asked this question a number of times.. no one ever answers :upsidedow

This causes me to lose 3-4 hours of sleep per night.

I just spit my morning coffee out my nose.




Porn has a future. There will just be less people in it.

One of the reasons for that is models don't have a clue, shooters don't have a clue and the budgets for content are not enough.

The result is people shooting the same scene over and over again, models faking it and the same guy shooting for the one site.

So the girl is on a sofa, then she's on a bed and then she's in the kitchen and then she's on another bed and then another sofa. Or it's a continual procession of girls in the back of vans. And then she goes home.

Porn isn't boring. WHAT MOST OF US SHOOT IS BORING. :Oh crap

If someone gets a good idea, they then create a site out of it and shoot the same scene 50 times and scratch their heads at why it doesn't retain. :1orglaugh

You will cry in your beer.
:2 cents: