LOL email me mrshap at twistys if you'd like a free membership to Twistys to check it out.

I would have to say No , usually I can get access to any site I am interested in .
:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:winkwink: LOL ... Hi Shap!

HEY! :winkwink: How's it going?

This thread topic is very interesting !
I was just thinking about how these days there are several tube sites
that have better quality full length movies then inside my own members area.
These streaming full length vids on free sites is pretty intense nowadays
very difficult to compete . :Oh crap

great thread, hard for some to hear i think. daily updates are a must, i would say #1 on the list. after all, tubes are uploaded to daily and surfers are used to seeing something different everyday on those sites. there is a level of expectation that must be met.
Twistys is so fn lucky to have you.

True dat. User interaction is key.
:2 cents:

its getting insane now that tubes can buy DVDs like the combatzone ones for cheap as shit and flood them out there.. would be fucking tough to compete against that

i just cant believe some of these DVD guys allow their DVDs to be tubed like that

Every single penny that comes into this industry is down to content that members pay for. What ever you do your earning ultimately depend on content that's paid for. If you sell traffic it depends on the buyers ability to turn it into $$$$ which depends on content in a members area. If you sell ad space the price you can get depends on content in a members area. If you're an affiliate or a paysite owner you're still relying on the content to convert and retain.

Even if you own a Tube site with full length movies. The amount of traffic you will retain and convert depends on some of that traffic buying something.

Never has the inside of a membership site and the content been so important. Having a nice layout, easy to navigate, clear images, HD or 3D will cover up bad, poor or mediocre content. It won't drive traffic, convert or retain it.

Yet still people will not pay enough attention to content. They still think cheaper is better. They still think loading more scenes of "A girl on a sofa" type content, they have already have, is going to make someone spend money.

I started a thread about putting different twists on the old ideas of porn and beside Damian trolling and spamming no one came up with any new or different ideas. Ideas that have been done or not. Carry on loading your sites with cheap content, DVD content and watch members turn into surfers day after day.

</rant>

Shap did you get my email? A reply would of been nice.

If anyone selling porn hasn't done that, they do not deserve to be selling porn.

"Let's say for the sake of argument that Twistys used to make $15,000,000 a year in profit. Right? And now as a site it make $5,000,000 a year in profit. And in the next 3 years it drops and eventually stables off around $2,000,000 a year in profit."

I think the arguement will be more like

Let's say for the sake of argument that Twistys used to make $15,000,000 a year in profit. Right? And now as a site it make $5,000,000 a year in profit. And in the next 3 years it drops and eventually stables off around $2,000 a year in profit.

Fiddy Shapalicious business threads.
:pimp

Most logical thread on this topic. You have to give people something worth paying for. Many will say that the amount of content on the tubes is simply too much to compete with, so compete in other ways. 1 on 1 attention with clients, community feel to your members area, target specific niches, listen to requests, offer HD streaming, direct downloads, conversions to any format, etc. It's very possible to still have a very very attractive product in this day and age. It will however take a bit more work, and the margins will be lower compared to the past. But that is after all what capitalism and competition is meant to bring to the consumer - illegal tubes or not it is heading that way.

Good thinking :thumbsup

What email? Where did you send it?

I think a lot of the first generation did and then in the past 5 years haven't. They haven't experienced the excitement of buying something and then the let down of not getting something as advertised and then the frustration of going through customer support and the horror of seeing your credit card raped to death :(

To mrshap at twistys dot com

Will resend it.

I disagree. You think major brands in the industry will experience a more than 99.999% drop in profits in the next 3 years? Wow. I sure hope you've already jumped off this sinking ship

My experience of meeting a lot of people in the Internet porn industry is they are programmers and computer orientated people. Some are free surfers who would never buy porn, as well. Not a great combination for selling porn on the Internet.

The only way to compete with Tube sites is what's inside your members area. It's impossible to compete in quantity of content or traffic. If the content of the members area isn't worth buying trying to sell it by sheer numbers of traffic is self defeating in the long run. It just educates the surfer not to buy.

found it right after i made my post and replied :thumbsup

Good thread Shap. I tried stating the same thing over a year ago.

-- http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showthread.php?t=940815

People in this industry just don't understand. The website I'm working on right now is incredible. The key is what the member gets, and it's not just login and view some pics and videos. Sorry, but if I want some pics or vids to jerk off to, I can go get that somewhere for free. If you're trying to sell me something, porn better not be your starting line. No one seems to understand that in this industry. There's potential to make a fucking killing right now. It'd be like stealing candy from a baby while they all have their heads up their asses.

And replied to your reply.

What we are doing now is I go hug each person after they sign up. Alot of traveling but its worth it. Im thinking of cross selling some deodorant.
Seriously you guys spend way too much time over thinking this. Do your best produce a site you would be proud to join.That's all you can really do and you will raise above the rest. A member requests to cancel we ask why. They say I lost my job, we thank them for their membership and give them a free month. They are stunned we do that. That person gets a job they come back to us.

BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That is how to run a business. One by one building long term clients.

That's a whole different rant. Do you know how many "non-industry" friends I have that are banging the "industry" girl of their dreams these days.

All you have to do is roll into any porn party talk some smack, lay down some drugs and you are in. And if that doesn't work call one of the agency's and book a private.

The fantasy in this industry is dead. Everyone has access so people that actually do have respect enough to pay don't see the need, when they can live it in the normal lives.

No the fantasy isn't dead. The ability to create it in a scene is dead though.

You came up with a great idea for a scene. Guy talks to a girl at a party and gets her to have sex with him. Or he books a pornstar hooker and films it. With or without her knowing.

The problem toady is so much content is just a girl on a bad and there's no fantasy.

What is the matter with you people?! All of you! It sounds like everyone has lost touch with the market as well as all of their creativity...

Let's talk about scenes... the fastest traveling porn (viral) I've seen in the past 6 months is actually... themed porn, nay... more like... themed softcore. You need to take into consideration what's hot NOW. As a single example would be the Steampunk theme... Have you SEEN how fast those pictures travel across the web?!

http://littledeathray.com/

The images on that site have flown across the tubes... and I bet someone here could hit that same demographic even better than that little dinky one shoot site. In fact I would go so far as to say you could do a few themed shoots straight out of your advertising budget... not content budget. You need to learn how to play the new game. You can't leverage popular social sites right now because of adult content restrictions. So build out well themed landers that have no adult content... spread the content across the tubes... you could easily land images on Geekologie, hawtness, etc... That is a shit ton of traffic and you know what's missing from every Steampunk themed set out there that I can find? Nudity / Porn... People want it, a large percentage of the demographic that content appeals to overlaps the paying demographic, and you can use it to bring in alternate traffic sources nobody else in adult is tapping.

There are far more themes too... like where is the gentleman's porn brand like Playboy used to be? I'm sure something could be recreated on a smaller scale. I envision erotic nudes and solo content shot in some creative locations that appeal, once again, to the target demographic. e.g. book a nice golf club as a shoot location and do high quality sets in different locations around the club... keeping inline with the same target demographic... high stakes / back room tables at casinos, high rise office spaces, private jets, etc... With a brand and content offering this "high society" I would also offer an actual printed annual book of all the top shots and girls that is included with your YEARLY membership plan... I'd also publish that same yearly and have it distributed to traditional markets in order to both solidify the brand as well as act as advertising. "This book is free with your XXXX membership"...

That's just off the top of my head... there are so many fantastic directions to go!

And to purposefully digress... I would say that there has never been a better time to get into the adult biz. Everyone will probably think I'm crazy but I'll bullet point some reasons:

1) The industry hasn't evolved the way mainstream has and the product offerings are sub par compared to mainstream.

2) No angels and VCs - Lack of investors mean that only two types of people can start a business; those with money and those willing to put in sweat equity (a lot of it). This is a fringe benefit for everyone else as it keeps big players out of the business (porn stigma obviously massively contributes to this)

3 & 4) Market Instability & Scared dollars - #2 (above) leaves only one type of person who can (and is willing) to fund a venture in the adult arena; the ones currently in adult who have capital. However, because of the market uncertainty most of these dollars are "scared"... the owners of the dollars are unwilling to invest in new ideas.

The adult industry right now is in a state that fosters underdogs and those willing to continue to spend through the slump. There are about 40 directions you can go in with adult right now and any one of them can be profitable if you know what you're doing and keep the focus on where it should be; perceived value to the user. There are TONS of fringe related things that can be offered to members but I'm not going to speculate on or divulge any more of them here :P

Whoops, this describes me to a T. :Oh crap

Hits the nail on the head.

Sub par prices for content = sub par content = produces sub par results.

It's real rocket science I know but if I can get it.................... :1orglaugh

The only thing we can do that tubes can't, is to send a DMCA takedown notice.

Great post..yea, switching things up and yes..STEAMPUNK is HOT..I'm writing/drawing a new erotic vampire Steampunk graphic novel for 2011
http://i.rwpic.com/images/ninavain/2..._5619424_n.jpg
http://i.rwpic.com/images/ninavain/2..._7060421_n.jpg
http://i.rwpic.com/images/ninavain/3..._7829112_n.jpg
http://i.rwpic.com/images/ninavain/3..._3119562_n.jpg
http://i.rwpic.com/images/ninavain/3..._5356833_n.jpg


it's an example of trying something NEW FRESH DIFFERENT in your site...example in SOLO GIRL sites..try other micro niches that guys may have not stumbled across yet..like Lapdance, Jerk Off encouragement, Ass Shaking..I make a killing off that softcore stuff...but can't sell much to old school thinking webmasters...but thats why some can still make $$$ and some can't. Great eye opening post..

hell guys add some comics in the members area..get the surfer to sit and look/read enjoy his time inside

Homegrown Video, the creative side of amateur porn
 

Excellent post, great suggestions!

We look for creative ways to engage the members. Simple but effective way to increase retention.

It's indeed a great post but its difficult to engage members and to keep their interest so they will return.

The problem is that if you compare this industry with a big shopping male, they all shop for free where some of the merchants use "stolen goods" from others.

Even if you skip this problem the consumers from today are smart and have many other ways to to spend their time on the web.

Improving your site and make it better compared with Tube sites will not help, because why should they pay if elsewhere the will get it for free.

The only way will be if you continue to built on your brand (fantasy) / quality of content and update frequency plus embracing new technologies and marketing concepts to monetize your stuff and retain your member base.

Personally I'm aiming on technology and new coming devices because that change the landscape we are working in 360 degrees.

I doubt that.

1. Look at the average porn tube, for example youporn.com or pornhub.com. You´ll find a big variety of niches you can choose from, recommended videos, most voted and most viewed scenes. All the previes are searchable. There are cams, livesex offers and you can join the community as well. And last but not least they are available in different languages, well translated.

I can´t think of any paysite that offers all that for free. Even if you join it is most likely that you won´t get the functionality of a tube. Assuming all tubes steal content (I don´t do so), you can´t say they are stealing design and functionality.

2. Tubes are updated several times a day. Many paysites are not even updated once a month or they rotate content.

3. Tubes offer 24/7 support for users, regardless of wether they are paying or not. Try to contact support of an average paysite ad you´ll feel the difference.

That´s why i think a paysite owner can do a lot besides sending out DMCA´s. But of course you can´t rely on a market behaviour of fifty years ago.

Yeah. Good question to think about.
And if you answer positive ask yourself the second question... If your paysite has a free site clone with just the same content (pics & vids) how would your traffic do? Would surfers prefer your paysite to your free site clone?
If you answer positive then you are ready to compete with tube sites and with any site based on stolen content.
Shap, is your twistys.com ready to compete with free-twistys-clone.com?

Pornhub for example sells a premium membership. So it´s not all for free and obviously they make a profit off it, else they wouldn´t offer it.

And all other tubes are not for free either. Though the surfer can watch the clips for free, tubes seem to be able to monetize advertising, cams, dating and other stuff offered on their sites.

Assume all content on tubes is published legally and licensed. I claim that this wouldn´t make any difference. The surfer will still prefer a tube to an oldfashioned paysite. So I think stolen content is a problem, but not the reason for surfers to prefer tubes.

I believe so. I may be wrong but I'm confident it what we've got going on right now.

I'm seeing more Twistys on tubes, Shap my man. You guys should've been doing that months if not years ago.

What I'm trying to do, since i'm essentially a one-man operation, is to prioritize and do what's most important, like finishing building my network. I should be more-or-less finished with that once I launch my next four sites (two already finished) this year. Next year: traffic generation and self-traffic generation.

As for giving Members what they want: it's critical, of course, and if you're fortunate enough to have models/producers who are willing to provide that more-or-less constant contributions then you're golden. If not, then you have to be creative, like ol' Mister P. heh heh But even I, the one-man show, am constantly adding new features, like DVD downloads, or feeds, or bonus sites, etc etc to keep things fresh. You almost have to at this point.

It would be more a common scenario than brands who have increased their income by 99% in the past 3 years correct?

Promoting porn on tubes and the likes is becoming less lucrative than promoting non adult related products like casinos. Eventually the tubes will want to cash out, I think there will be more non adult buyers around than adult.

Then the industry's traffic passes to those who have a total no interest in adult or at least don't need to make money from it.. except for the traffic generation. They won't care about promoting your skank products anymore.

Your left with your own tubes running ad's all over them competing with tubes that have virtually none, they will just take something like the popunder and actually save money on what they currently pay.

As for the boat, I did not jump off, I just changed ships
Biz is up 25% this quarter.. hows yours?

Mine is up 68.2% from last quarter.

You paint with too wide a brush Grasshopper.

What some people refuse to get is Tubes don't survive on people who want it all for free. They survive on $$$$.

But finding an excuse for failure is easier than finding a solution.